Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
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The following comments were censored from this thread on the BBC's 'Have Your Say' section of their news website.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
I am not catholic, but I applaud their stand on this. It is time someone questioned our 'anything goes' lifestyle and took a look at where we are heading. Putting a 'normal' child into a same sex household will just produce another homosexual, maybe this is their plan to increase their population because they cannot breed naturally!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
I really don't appreciate that the church has anything to say in the matter. They are out of touch and irrelevant to modern society. Considering the recent history of the Catholic Church and children I am surprised that a priest is allowed anywhere near a child.
It seems to me that the churchmen are taking an example of literary fiction, the Bible, and interpreting it into literary fact to suit their own prejudices.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
God save all the little children from catching 'gayness' from their adopted parents!!!! Why do we continue to lend these small brained homophobic idiots our attention?
Isn't it time we (human beings) stopped all this religous nonsense and started to face the realities of our lives? Remember, if you are religous then you believe that MAGIC (and not nature) created the universe and everyone and everything you know. When will science and reason finally win over superstition and ritual nonsense?
Any group of people that believes that a magical being created the universe is, in my opinion, not sane enough to go anywhere near a child (let alone be responsible for their upbringing).
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
No one brave enough to say it?
same sex couples cannot have their own children because its against the laws of nature.
therefore the churchs are right.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Perhaps the Catholic Church should use the "Prejudice Offset" fund by working out its "Bigot Footprint". Save the planet...get rid of religion, bibles and other irrational twaddle.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
To all those that are in same sex relationships. Are you meant to produce children. I think you'll find that the answer is NO, so could you please stop trying to have something that you know you can never have.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The church is a ludicrous sham, it is a fraudelaunt cult that extorts money through ghost stories and fear. Quite frankly, if I was a homosexual I would want nothing to do with the church. Throughout time the church has persecuted homosexuals, and the establishment turned a blind eye to it.
We should be discussing whether the church should apologise for its past actions, and the rather offensive ideas it promoted. But, half the BBC are probably latent christian supremacists, so fat chance that is going to happen any time soon.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Firstly, why is homosexuality the only sexual orientation, apart from the norm, that one is seemingly born with? Could not paedophiles claim the same? I would wager that though some paedophiles may have had the tendency whilst they were young, (many) others, I strongly suspect, acquire it through exposure.
Secondly, I think there is a place for standing up for certain moral issues and not allow PC to steamroller us. I would stand up for a faith based hospital to refuse to perform abortion or pratice euthanasia (even if some law say they must), or for that matter, a vegitarian restaurant not to serve me meat.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Hopefully this law will also make the discriminatory and irrelevant religious organisations illegal. It is inconceivable that some random collection of people can ask to be excluded from such important legislation simply because of their 'faith'. The law of the country, and responsibility to fellow humans must take precedence over some hallucinatory 'law of god'.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Why on earth have we got adoption agencies run by catholics?
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
If the Catholic Church said their religion forbade them dealing with mixed race couples there would be outrage. Or if they said that a disabled couple could not adopt because of their religions teachings. Yet it is ok to discriminate against homosexuals.
This situation IS black & white. The suitability of an adopter should be made on a case by case basis and not against someone because of their sexuality.
All this proves is that the Catholic Church is an institutionally homophobic and bigoted institution, and that Ruth Kelly is clearly not 'fit for purpose' for the same reasons.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
If the church wants to stick to its principles, it must opt out! Being gay is not something you are born with, it is a lifestyle choice. It has never in human history been "normal" to be gay. If it ever had been, then the human race would have died out at that point. A child needs to have a male and female role model to grow up with. Sadly, in many families today, this is not the case and the results are plain to see as children from single parent families do worse in school and work. Gay adoption means that even more children will grow up with a confused view of life. At least the church is making a stand!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
"Being gay is not something you are born with, it is a lifestyle choice." - Carol, Grimsby.
Ask any gay person if they chose to be gay, or if they feel as though they have always been gay. You may be surprised (but I doubt this will change your views).
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Fine, close the seven Catholic adoption agencies run by bigoted, superstitious people and replace them with seven agencies run by people who actually care about the children.
While we're at it, let's try to minimise the influence the outmoded church has on government policy please.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Homosexuality is an affectation a lifestyle choice. Same sex couples obviously accept that intercourse between the two will not produce children. Having made that choice why then do they think they should be given the right to adopt a child? The Catholic Church must stand firm even if it would mean closing adoption agencies.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The church can choose not too operate adoption agencies in this country, in fact that would be ideal. It would be nice to teach children to love all at an early age. The law is passing and if the church does not like it, tough, their reign of terror ended a long time ago. As for Ms Kelly, she has proven that she cannot be impartial in her role as Equalities Minister, well, do us all a favour and resign, and let us have someone in that position who will support equality for all!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
One person should not enforce their "rights" onto another person, whether by law or force.
Surely children have the right to a mother and father? At least they have the right to choose?
Does the gay community really care about the children they wish to adopt or are they just trying to win another "rights" badge?
So what are the long term affects of missing a maternal or parternal input in your life?
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Considering the recent cases against the Catholic Church for child abuse one would have thought they would have the good sense to keep a low profile
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The Church has no right to play the discrimination card while it continues to discriminate itself!
And its threat to close its adoption centres if the law goes ahead smacks of a grumpy child taking his toys and going home because he can't get his own way.
This isn't political correctness, this is a blow against bigotry for fairness and equality for all our citizens, and frankly its high time our society stops sanctioning these narrowminded and dogmatic fools for fear of offending their outdated and prejudiced beliefs!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
I think the Catholic Church have a cheek to elect to break the law which they feel they are above. Especially, when they would appear to condone the child abuse carried out by their priests, as uncovered in your BBC Prime Documentary shown on New Years Eve.
When a law is passed, whether you agree or not, we are all subject to that law, no one should have the right to expect exception.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
No, the law should apply to everyone. However I do support the church stance on this. We should not be giving the responsibility of bringing up someone else's child to same sex couples. We need to admit that these sexual perversions are wrong. Better we find a cure.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Since the 60's society's values have moved toeards the idea of self gratification in all things. The idea of contributing to any empirical values is scorned by many. That is why so few have regard for the welfare of others. Are people so blind that they cannot appreciate the moral degeneration that has taken place in our society? In most cities it is not even safe to go out at night. If they think that progressively rejecting Bibical values is not responsible then they are monstrously uninformed.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
It is time that people remembered that Britain is a Christian country. As such, we should remember what the Bible tells us, not only about this matter but about all aspects of life. If we go to other countrys they do not alter their laws just to try and please us.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Siekhs don't have to wear a crash-helmet so Christianity should be allowed their own laws as suit their religion.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Is West Wales excluded?
The Catholic argument is well rehearsed and utterly silly.
The secular argument always hits the buffers who insist on the rights of the religiously insane.
Why do they always seems to hold sway in the government of the time?
Time for sensible people to stand up and be counted!!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
So... God is really put out when kids are adopted into same-sex relationship families? Anyone who thinks this is insane.
Tony Blair should come down decisively on the side of sanity and inclusiveness, rather than pussyfooting about as he's doing at the moment.
And society should shun a useless, irrelevant church.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
There is an interesting hypocracy in this argument, Homosexuality can be considered a belief system, as it is a personal preference, and one that the government feels should be protected from prejudice. The Catholic church is also a belief system which is not afforded the same freedom by our government,.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Surely the real question is should "gay" couples be allowed to adopt, I am all for "each to their own" but 2 men/women sleeping in the same bed does not give the right picture to an impessionable child that looks to its parents for its future guidance on what is what especially when they try to explain "the birds and the bees" episode.
It seems to me that gays are not really thinking about the childs needs just their own in the hope that they can "plaý" at happy families after all only a woman can be a "mummy" and only a man can be a "daddy" that I'm afraid is a fact of life. SO LETS GET REAL AND STOP USING CHILDREN AS A POLITICAL TOOL AND THINK OF THEIR WELLBEING.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
As I'm an atheist it's odd to be defending the Catholic Church but some posts are inaccurate -
1. Homosexuality isn't just condemned in the Old Testament but also in the New (e.g. St Paul)
2. An objection to someone's behaviour (e.g. having sex with someone of the same gender as themselves) is not equivalent to objecting to a physical feature of a person (e.g. race, gender, disability etc.). You choose how to behave, you may find your behaviour acceptable, others may not.
3. The church is not seeking to be "above the law" or to "ignore the law", it wants the law to be worded so that it can obey the law without its moral beliefs being compromised.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The church is right, morally and practically.
The question is not about gay rights, but of a child being allowed to grow to adulthood emotionally stable.
Homosexuals, although possibly loving and kind people, have chosen their own lifestyle if not their sexual orientation.
Although homosexuals get a lot of publicity, it does not make their lifestyle morally justifiable or stable.
If they wish to express their love other than to their partner, let them get a puppy.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Isn't this the same Catholic Church that covers up for paedophile priests?
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
"God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Need I say more - jerrybel, atherstone"
Yes, you need to say more - you missed off the "Haha, just kidding!" from the end of your post.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
"we are not a dictatorship - scott wallace, nagoya"
You are mistaken, sir.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
It astounds me that the church says it goes against their "morality". Do they know what that word means? They won't let gays marry, adopt, or rent their halls for parties but they will quite happily allow sex offenders amongst them or try to protect them by buying the kids off or hiding them or just passing them onto another parish where they can start all over again with more victims. Remember when it was "wrong" to have women vicars and priest? Being gay myself, I happen to know that a lot of "gods men" are gay too, same as always with any religion, full of Hypocrites.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
[My six year old nephew walked in on me and my male partner one morning when we were in bed. He climbed into bed and asked, if you two love eachother why don't you get married ? And then kissed us and walked out.
Kids are much more open/accepting than we give them credit for...Dave Phillips, London, United Kingdom]
Humm?????s - So long as kids are not too accepting eh Dave.
Using a bit of child psychology, kids naturally DO & WILL always DO & SAY the things they know will please their parents, because kids know their life depends on it.
I know this as I used to be a kid myself once. Kids also like to be praised a lot by parents if they do good school work & get things right.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
All HETEROSEXUALS must say no to the Gay and Lesbian Activists demands on equal adoption rights. The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin, and not genetic, it is a perversion of sexual love, gifted from God, and only to be enjoyed between male and female, not male and male or female and female.
What are they going to demand next, Peter Tatchell is demanding that the age of consent for Gay sex be dropped to 14 years, he is also pushing for Cottaging to be legalised, and that would come in handy if Gays succeed on this issue.
The way this country is going, I wouldn't be surprised if paedophilia was legalised soon.
The silent MAJORITY must stand up and be counted on this issue.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Personally, I am worried about children being brought up in strict religious households where they might be brainwashed. Or taken to a Catholic Church where the local father might take a bit too much interest in them. Couples get vetted very heavily before they are allowed to adopt. If a gay couple went to a Catholic adoption agency and expected to be treated fairly and on merit I'd think they might be barking mad.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
SO many homophobic people on this site. Anyone who comments on gay people 'influencing' a childs sexuality needs to examine their sensibility. Gay people were once children, and if from a 2 parent family, was a heterosexual family. So, there goes that argument. Don't even suggest we chose to be gay, that's just closed minded, regurgitated nonsense and you clearly haven't thought for yourself. Also, the ever 'used' argument that a child needs both mum and dad to grow up clearly doesn't acknowledge the multitude of single parents that bring up perfectly well-adjusted, healthy children. We have more important things to worry about. Climate, poverty, famine, unreasonable taxes... Love not hate.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The church has every right in our society to be exempt from the new law as it goes against the creed of the church. The problem is that religion is still part of our society and acts divisively & separatistly for its own interests. RC, Islam & Judaism are the biggest problems of our society today and until we condemn them to room 101, we will be forever pandering to these people who are racist by default of their religious beliefs.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Perhaps some people on this board would enjoy going on holiday to Iran or Saudi Arabia. Then they could stone and lynch homosexuals instead of just complaining about them...
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Perhaps some people on this board would enjoy going on holiday to Iran or Saudi Arabia. Then they could stone and lynch homosexuals instead of just complaining about them... Nazanin Mossadegh, Cambridge
Good point! I think all sexual refugees from Iran and Saudi should seek asylum in the UK. Most Brits will agree. Let us show the world how its done. And we can lead the world in gay adoption too. British society is on a great journey! One day King Alan will kiss his husband Paul on the Palace balcony while their sons Tony and John look on and a million little flags are waved happily. Brave and resolute our society marches on. Nothing can stop the march of liberty. I love this country!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Perhaps some people on this board would enjoy going on holiday to Iran or Saudi Arabia. Then they could stone and lynch homosexuals instead of just complaining about them...
Nazanin Mossadegh, Cambridge
What has your suggestion got to do with the question on this forum? It seems that some people who cannot make valid points have to bring in unrelated issue to try & win over opinions.
I've not seen any comments that suggest what you’ve suggested, as many people do believe in live & let live – but the question is about gays adopting kids.
Gays have the right to be gay, but that should not give them the right to preach on morals. How long will it be before straights are persecuted?
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The Catholic Church has the right to close it,s adoption agencies and maybe they should. They abused their own system for too long. The true stories of children sent from the UK to Canada and Australia is but one example. In the middle ages women were often raped by catholic priests then burnt or drowned as witches makes a mockery of man-made religious rules. Today they pick on the homosexuals, tomorrow who knows. I detest the pc brigade and all forms of exclusion. Our social services are full of foster children whose heterosexual parents are criminals,drug addicts,plain stupid or selfish so if a gay person can offer a kind, loving environment why not let them. Compassion for all is vital
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The wishes of the majority are what should constitute democratic law, but that law should not be discriminatory. In the majority of cases this poses no real problem but what we have here is an assault on hundreds of years of Christian based laws of this nation - a nation being deliberately destroyed little by little by minorities with a worrying global agenda. I expect worse to come as the days go by leading up to world government.I have a right to object to homosexuals as they have a right to object to my lifestyle but it should be the majority who decide. just hope you dont get sharia law!!
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
No one is above the law, we have enough lawlessnes, without this stupid suggestion.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
The Church of England who are supporting the Catholic Church in this also allows gay priests to practice. This is inconsistent and surely hypocritical.
sickOf Blair
Yes, it is inconsistent and hypocritical. Isn't it time that the Archbishop of Canterbury stood up for the traditional faith of the Church and was unequivocal in his condemnation of gay adoption and gay priests? If he doesn't, how can he command respect either as the head of the CofE or as a leader and teacher of Christian morality.
I am a very tolerant person - but I am now getting tolerance fatigue. I am sick of the PC brigade and homosexuals trying to dictate their distorted morality to us.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
So it would appear that adoption agencies can discriminate against families who are not of the right racial colour, who are too ‘middle class’ (whatever that means), who are too religious (again difficult to accurately determine), who went to the wrong type of School (public) but do not discriminate against people who live in a relationship which the majority in this country still find abhorrent and certainly not one suitable for bringing up children. The country is morally and ethically bankrupt – Blair has done a really good job.
Should church be able to opt out of gay rights laws?
Most reasonable people would agree Homosexuals have a right not to be prejudiced against. But, not being allowed to adopt children is not a form of prejudice. Lots of people aren't permitted to adopt children and for much less obviously harmful reasons than living in an unnatural partnership practising deviant sexual acts.
Before anyone protests about these comments any sexual act not directed towards procreation (or strengthening the natural bond between couples capable of procreation) is by biological definition 'deviant' and 'unnatural'.
It seems to me the church is right, children have a right to be protected from such things until they are capable of making their own decisions.
Catholic Church leader, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor has written to Cabinet ministers saying church teaching prevents its agencies from placing children with homosexuals.
The Equality Act which is due to come into effect in England, Wales and Scotland in April, outlaws discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities and services on the basis of sexual orientation.
However, the church claims that forcing people to act against their consciences would mean discrimination on the grounds of belief and says that adoption agencies will close if they cannot opt out of the leslation.
Downing Street said Tony Blair had not yet decided whether to exempt Catholic agencies.
Do you agree with the cardinal? Should faith organisations be exempt from gay rights legislation? Send us your comments.
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