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French presidential candidates debate key election issues - live! French presidential candidates debate key election issues - live!
(35 minutes later)
11.32pm GMT
23:32
Conclusion
And that’s it; it’s over. Three hours and 20 minutes of debate. Very hard to say who came out on top. Here’s one succinct and view:
The debate in a nutshell: Fillon isn't dead, Macron needs to work on the gravitas thing, Le Pen fails to score, Mélenchon elbows Hamon out.
Our Paris correspondent Angelique Chrisafis will be filing her report shortly and the pundits will have their say tomorrow.
Le Pen came across as shouty and angry (and seriously flakey on the economy); Fillon mostly quiet but with a few strong moments, particularly on pensions and foreign policy; Macron enthusiastic, idealistic, passionate at times.
Commentator Christophe Barbier reckons Le Pen did herself no favours: not presidential, too pugnacious:
#LeGrandDébat Marine Le Pen à la fois faible en arguments et pugnace en invectives. Peu présidentielle, trop vindicative.
But all will have pleased their own voters, I imagine. The next few rounds of polls will show whether this evening’s debate made any difference.
That’s it from me: good night!
11.24pm GMT
23:24
Summing up
Fillon: a real change of politics is needed and I’m the only candidate who can deliver it. I’m the only one who could have a stable majority to deliver it. I may have committed a few errors, who hasn’t. But I have experience, and the will to do this.
Hamon: I’m offering you a vote that will be useful to you, your children, your grandchildren. You are used to voting against; I suggest you vote for: for the environment, for purchasing power for the poorest families; for a sixth republic; for a desirable future.
Le Pen: Most of the promises you’ve heard tonight cannot be put into practice because the EU will prevent them. You, the French, have the right to decide. Uncontrolled globalisation has been a disaster for you. I will do nothing against your will. I will start negotiations with Europe, and I will organise a referendum. I call on you to vote for liberty. If you make the right political choices things will improve immediately.
Mélenchon: We cannot affront the threats the world faces with hands tied by money. I want to give the republic back to France by relieving it of this presidential monarchy. I am ready for this responsibility ... to put in place a programme that will upset lots of vested interests.
Macron: Thank you for this debate. I want to reconcile opinions. Our country is divided, by fear, and by the way some people play on fear. You are not the problem – the problem is that the established order is not the right one. I propose pragmatism, with zero tolerance. My project is one that will make France proud. Profound change, that’s our project. It’s a profound renewal of French politics. I want France, our country, to offer a chance – a chance for each and every one of you.
Updated
at 11.26pm GMT
11.12pm GMT
23:12
Terrorism
The debate has now been going on for more than three hours.
#LeGrandDebat has now become an endurance test. The last Presidential candidate to collapse on stage will triumph.
Le Pen says to avoid future terrorism attacks must be prevented by regaining control of France’s frontiers, expelling known militants, banning fundamentalist organisations, closing fundamentalist mosques ...
“We must give ourselves the means to wage this necessary war against Islamic fundamentalism,” she says.
Fillon says the world faces a longterm war that will take a decade at least. It will need alliances with Russia, the Middle East and others, and in the meantime France must secure itself: deporting anyone who has a “proven relationship with the enemy”, stripping French nationality from anyone who takes up arms against his country.
Macron says no one can guarantee no new attacks. “It needs responsibility, maturity.” A diplomatic solution in the Middle East; punishment for those who have fought against France; improving intelligence cooperation.
Updated
at 11.14pm GMT
11.01pm GMT11.01pm GMT
23:0123:01
Macron says he is the only candidate who has pledged to fulfil France’s responsibilities to Europe. He says the French people will give him a mandate to defend France’s economic independence and its security.Macron says he is the only candidate who has pledged to fulfil France’s responsibilities to Europe. He says the French people will give him a mandate to defend France’s economic independence and its security.
He says France’s place is at the heart of Europe, working with Europe. Le Pen snorts. “You have said nothing,” Le Pen says. “You have talked for seven minutes and said nothing.”He says France’s place is at the heart of Europe, working with Europe. Le Pen snorts. “You have said nothing,” Le Pen says. “You have talked for seven minutes and said nothing.”
Macron efficient by taking on Le Pen on foreign policy :"I want France's independence within Europe." #FrenchPresidentialDebateMacron efficient by taking on Le Pen on foreign policy :"I want France's independence within Europe." #FrenchPresidentialDebate
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.02pm GMTat 11.02pm GMT
10.51pm GMT10.51pm GMT
22:5122:51
France's place in the worldFrance's place in the world
The final stage of the debate: foreign policy.The final stage of the debate: foreign policy.
Hamon says France should always be capable and willing to intervene militarily abroad in defence of international law. He says Trump and Russia’s ambitions have changed everything: less America (on the world stage) should lead to more Europe, he says.Hamon says France should always be capable and willing to intervene militarily abroad in defence of international law. He says Trump and Russia’s ambitions have changed everything: less America (on the world stage) should lead to more Europe, he says.
Le Pen says no one should decide for France. “I don’t want to force our soldiers to fight in wars that we have not decided,” she says. The French army is in a parlous state, she says, and defence spending must be raised to 3% of GDP by the end of the next presidency.Le Pen says no one should decide for France. “I don’t want to force our soldiers to fight in wars that we have not decided,” she says. The French army is in a parlous state, she says, and defence spending must be raised to 3% of GDP by the end of the next presidency.
Fillon says that’s ridiculous: completely unaffordable.Fillon says that’s ridiculous: completely unaffordable.
Mélenchon says the world has become a dangerous place. He wants to be a president of peace, he says. No war, but negotiations ...Mélenchon says the world has become a dangerous place. He wants to be a president of peace, he says. No war, but negotiations ...
10.43pm GMT10.43pm GMT
22:4322:43
Le Pen has spoken longer and louder than everyone else ...Le Pen has spoken longer and louder than everyone else ...
Le Pen comes off as angry and incoherent, on health and pensions. But maybe it works for her electorate. #LeGrandDebatLe Pen comes off as angry and incoherent, on health and pensions. But maybe it works for her electorate. #LeGrandDebat
10.39pm GMT10.39pm GMT
22:3922:39
HealthcareHealthcare
Another lengthy and detailed discussion.Another lengthy and detailed discussion.
Mélenchon says everyone should be reimbursed in full for all their healthcare expenses: “We know how to fund that, it’s not complicated.”Mélenchon says everyone should be reimbursed in full for all their healthcare expenses: “We know how to fund that, it’s not complicated.”
Fillon says the system has to be “debureaucratised” and GPs need to be at the heart of the system. They need to be paid properly, to be able to work in teams. Hospitals need to be more independent.Fillon says the system has to be “debureaucratised” and GPs need to be at the heart of the system. They need to be paid properly, to be able to work in teams. Hospitals need to be more independent.
Macron also wants healthcare professionals to have more autonomy.Macron also wants healthcare professionals to have more autonomy.
Le Pen says France has to cut waste in its healthcare system. As a mother of three, she says, she could have started a pharmacy ...Le Pen says France has to cut waste in its healthcare system. As a mother of three, she says, she could have started a pharmacy ...
UK observers should note the amount of time healthcare, pensions and employment issues are taking up in the French presidential debateUK observers should note the amount of time healthcare, pensions and employment issues are taking up in the French presidential debate
10.30pm GMT10.30pm GMT
22:3022:30
There is a lengthy debate on the age of retirement ...There is a lengthy debate on the age of retirement ...
Fillon proposes raising the retirement age to 65.Fillon proposes raising the retirement age to 65.
Macron says he will reform the pension system from top to bottom. It is unclear and confusing and unfair, he says. One euro paid into the system should be worth one euro at retirement age, he says.Macron says he will reform the pension system from top to bottom. It is unclear and confusing and unfair, he says. One euro paid into the system should be worth one euro at retirement age, he says.
10.25pm GMT10.25pm GMT
22:2522:25
Tweet of the night so far: “As president of the Republic, I would shorten presidential debates.”Tweet of the night so far: “As president of the Republic, I would shorten presidential debates.”
Moi, président de la République, je raccourcirai les débats télévisés #DebatTF1Moi, président de la République, je raccourcirai les débats télévisés #DebatTF1
10.19pm GMT10.19pm GMT
22:1922:19
Le Pen says Brexit is a huge success and the UK’s results are “formidable”. Everyone knows what I think of Europe and the euro, she says.Le Pen says Brexit is a huge success and the UK’s results are “formidable”. Everyone knows what I think of Europe and the euro, she says.
The other candidates laugh ...The other candidates laugh ...
In tonight's presidential debate, Ms Le Pen describes Brexit as spectacular success: "les résultats du Brexit sont formidables." https://t.co/PFc9CKGNlFIn tonight's presidential debate, Ms Le Pen describes Brexit as spectacular success: "les résultats du Brexit sont formidables." https://t.co/PFc9CKGNlF
hahahahaha Le Pen just mentioned Brexit and everyone in the room booed, hello there from French people in Londonhahahahaha Le Pen just mentioned Brexit and everyone in the room booed, hello there from French people in London
UpdatedUpdated
at 10.51pm GMTat 10.51pm GMT
10.15pm GMT10.15pm GMT
22:1522:15
Le Pen’s ideas on the economy are not entirely coherent, according to some:Le Pen’s ideas on the economy are not entirely coherent, according to some:
Le Pen completely incoherent on economics. No figures. No specifics. Nothing. Very Trumplike. Will her voters care, though? #LeGrandDébatLe Pen completely incoherent on economics. No figures. No specifics. Nothing. Very Trumplike. Will her voters care, though? #LeGrandDébat
Fillon accuses Le Pen of leading France “towards social and economic chaos”.Fillon accuses Le Pen of leading France “towards social and economic chaos”.
French rightwing candidate @FrancoisFillon accuses @MLP_officiel of leading France "towards social and economic chaos" in TV debate @AFP pic.twitter.com/VoY23PDOh5French rightwing candidate @FrancoisFillon accuses @MLP_officiel of leading France "towards social and economic chaos" in TV debate @AFP pic.twitter.com/VoY23PDOh5
UpdatedUpdated
at 10.25pm GMTat 10.25pm GMT
10.12pm GMT
22:12
Taxes: are they too high?
Hamon says the only new idea in the campaign is his: a universal basic income.
Fillon says France’s neighbours have not cut the working week and are doing better than France. Investment is key, he says. He is determined to raise purchasing power.
Macron says investment has to be increased and the social security charges companies pay have to be reduced. He says he will abolish property tax, paid by 85% of French citizens.
Fillon accuses him of being “a little bit left, a little bit right” – Macron replies that his policies are “effective, and fair”.
Wow! Macron says he will abolish property tax on all home owners which brings in €10 bn a year. Big bribe to middle France as 85% pay tax
Updated
at 10.17pm GMT
10.05pm GMT
22:05
Le Pen says she does not want to enter into “a debate among ultra-liberals”. That model has shown its shortcomings, she says, it has “ruined our agriculture, ruined our industry”.
France needs “economic patriotism” she says; the state must encourage French businesses, not foreign businesses. The EU encourages unfair competition and French industry pays the price.
Updated
at 10.07pm GMT
10.00pm GMT
22:00
Quite a few observers agreeing that Fillon does not seem to be able to make his mark on this debate. “He’s trying, but it’s not getting through”:
Fillon n'arrive pas à prendre la parole. Ni face à Mélenchon ni face à Macron... Il essaie mais ça ne passe pas #DebatTF1
9.57pm GMT
21:57
A trace of irony:
Mélenchon has a good plan to reduce unemployment: "You create 300,000 jobs here, 300,000 jobs there..." #Nobel #FrenchPresidentialDebate
9.56pm GMT
21:56
#presidential2017 #legranddebat Hamon says firms must look at "stress, anxiety, length of service and burn-out" + organise work differently
9.55pm GMT
21:55
The economy
Unemployment is a major and stubborn problem in France. What’s the solution?
Fillon says countries around France have managed full employment. So why haven’t we? Employees must be able to negotiate hours with employers on a company-by-company basis, he says: “Give companies the freedom ... to organise themselves.”
Macron says he is not suggesting abolishing France’s 35-hour week. He says the law should set the framework and principles, but companies and industrial sectors should be able to decide. And he wants a cut in corporation tax.
Hamon says we need to take account now of the impact of automation. “I will be the candidate of a decent wage,” he says, and in an increase in the minimum wage.
Mélenchon says he is interesting in creating jobs by filling company order books; he will invest €100bn in future technologies.
9.44pm GMT
21:44
Xavier Frison from Marianne magazine says Fillon is effectively absent from the debate, “inaudible, the big loser of the evening so far”:
Point d'étape : #Fillon, l'air absent, inaudible, le grand perdant de la soirée pour le moment. #LeGrandDebat
9.42pm GMT
21:42
A break ...
We’ve taken a break, I presume a commercial one ...
A few instant reactions: Le Figaro’s London correspondent reckons it isn’t everyone against Macron but everyone against Le Pen. Hamon and Le Pen are gunning for Macron, Fillon is reserved and Mélenchon is almost “acting as referee”:
#LeGrandDebat devait être tous contre Macron. En fait c'est ts contre Le Pen, Hamon et MLP contre Macron, Fillon discret, Mélenchon arbitre.
9.36pm GMT
21:36
Energy, nuclear power, environment
Hamon says France should close its old nuclear reactors and invest more in wind power.
Fillon says France’s nuclear industry must be safe.
Macron says he wants a 50-50 split between nuclear and renewable by 20150. He says clean air is critical: diesel cars should no longer get tax breaks; one million homes should be made more energy-efficient.
Le Pen says the freetrade, “ultra-liberal model” is intrinsically bad for the environment because it encourages production on the other side of the globe. She defends diesel, says French drivers who were encouraged to buy them should not be penalised.
Updated
at 9.46pm GMT
9.31pm GMT
21:31
Morality in public life
Asked how to restore a sense of morality in public life – with several of the participants embroiled in assorted judicial and other inquiries:
Fillon says he will set up a commission should be set up to improve transparency and guarantee good conduct.
Macron says conflicts of interests must be abolished as far as humanly possible; all relations with lobbyists must be disclosed; MPs’ pay must be made completely transparent; the rules must be clear.
Mélenchon says MPs should not be able to do consultancy work, and hiring family members – common practice in France – should be banned.
Le Pen says the campaign has helped French voters realise that some candidates are defending the interests of major groups rather than of the French people. She has a dig at Macron here, a former banker: “Private interests have invited themselves into this campaign.”
Macron comes close to accusing her of defamation, saying she has accused him of a conflict of interest – if she believes that, she should file a formal complaint, he says, or keep her silence.