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| Sydney siege inquest resumes with a blame game over gunman's bail application – rolling report | Sydney siege inquest resumes with a blame game over gunman's bail application – rolling report |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 3.58pm AEST06:58 | |
| We’re back onto this question of why the police didn’t arrest Monis in October 2014, after being told that doing so could see him jailed. | |
| “At the very least it would have been unreasonable. At it’s highest, it would have been unlawful,” Stek says. | |
| “We had already arrested him twice, bail refused him twice ... if we did it again, then we would have been heavily criticised at the least, and our actions considered unlawful at the highest.” | |
| Criticised by whom? “The courts, who made thier views very clear with respect to [Monis’] liberty.” | |
| 3.37pm AEST06:37 | 3.37pm AEST06:37 |
| A suppression order is going to make this difficult to report, but we’ve just heard evidence that the police overlooked the fact that Monis was on bail when he allegedly committed another very serious - and suppressed - offence in 2013. | A suppression order is going to make this difficult to report, but we’ve just heard evidence that the police overlooked the fact that Monis was on bail when he allegedly committed another very serious - and suppressed - offence in 2013. |
| This really is extraordinary. Monis was accused of committing at least two serious indictable offences while on bail for four years for sending offensive letters to the widows and families of deceased Australian soldiers. But it appears police in NSW never put two and two together and relayed this information to the DPP. Nor, for that matter, did the DPP ever discover that information itself. | This really is extraordinary. Monis was accused of committing at least two serious indictable offences while on bail for four years for sending offensive letters to the widows and families of deceased Australian soldiers. But it appears police in NSW never put two and two together and relayed this information to the DPP. Nor, for that matter, did the DPP ever discover that information itself. |
| The DPP also suggested that if Monis was arrested again on fresh charges, there would be the opportunity to put him behind bars. The police never did so, as we heard this morning. | The DPP also suggested that if Monis was arrested again on fresh charges, there would be the opportunity to put him behind bars. The police never did so, as we heard this morning. |
| Stek is suggesting that the DPP’s message wasn’t delivered so clearly. Had he known that an arrest could have put Monis behind bars, he would have done so, he says. | Stek is suggesting that the DPP’s message wasn’t delivered so clearly. Had he known that an arrest could have put Monis behind bars, he would have done so, he says. |
| 3.02pm AEST06:02 | 3.02pm AEST06:02 |
| We heard in the last segment of hearings that Monis had “a curious feature of administrative compliance”, as Gormly has put it. | We heard in the last segment of hearings that Monis had “a curious feature of administrative compliance”, as Gormly has put it. |
| Stek says this fastidiousness made it difficult for police to argue against bail for Monis. | Stek says this fastidiousness made it difficult for police to argue against bail for Monis. |
| “He had very good subjective features ... he would turn up, report on bail, meet his court appearances, reside where he had to reside, didn’t try to travel out of the country,” he says. | “He had very good subjective features ... he would turn up, report on bail, meet his court appearances, reside where he had to reside, didn’t try to travel out of the country,” he says. |
| 3.00pm AEST06:00 | 3.00pm AEST06:00 |
| Monis’ face was plastered across the news in September 2014 when he took part in protests in Lakemba after the execution of several search warrants across Melbourne and Sydney by counter-terrorism police. | Monis’ face was plastered across the news in September 2014 when he took part in protests in Lakemba after the execution of several search warrants across Melbourne and Sydney by counter-terrorism police. |
| Stek raised this with the DPP solicitor when Monis appeared in court in October 2014, going as far as accusing Monis of being one of the instigators of the protest - but why? | Stek raised this with the DPP solicitor when Monis appeared in court in October 2014, going as far as accusing Monis of being one of the instigators of the protest - but why? |
| “We raise other matters that might tip [a bail application] over, to give it the weight of evidence to oppose bail,” he says. | “We raise other matters that might tip [a bail application] over, to give it the weight of evidence to oppose bail,” he says. |
| Counsel assisting, Jeremy Gormly SC, is having none of this. “There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that Mr Monis was the main protagonist, was there?” he asks. | Counsel assisting, Jeremy Gormly SC, is having none of this. “There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that Mr Monis was the main protagonist, was there?” he asks. |
| Stek ducks and weaves but admit there was none. | Stek ducks and weaves but admit there was none. |
| What’s going on here? It seems Gormly is trying to head off any attempt by the police - now or in the future - to claim they raised issues of Monis’ links to terrorism with the DPP solicitor, who failed to press the issue. | What’s going on here? It seems Gormly is trying to head off any attempt by the police - now or in the future - to claim they raised issues of Monis’ links to terrorism with the DPP solicitor, who failed to press the issue. |
| Ultimately, Stek was unhappy with the DPP’s decision not to make a detention order, but didn’t formally challenge it. | Ultimately, Stek was unhappy with the DPP’s decision not to make a detention order, but didn’t formally challenge it. |
| “Your view was, there is no point in a contest,” Gormly says. | “Your view was, there is no point in a contest,” Gormly says. |
| “Yes,” Stek says. | “Yes,” Stek says. |
| “And so there wasn’t really any contest between your view and [the DPP solicitors’]?” | “And so there wasn’t really any contest between your view and [the DPP solicitors’]?” |
| “Yes.” | “Yes.” |
| 2.38pm AEST05:38 | 2.38pm AEST05:38 |
| "The confounding factor was the Bail Act of 2013" | "The confounding factor was the Bail Act of 2013" |
| Fast forward to October, when Monis was hit with an additional 37 sex offences. | Fast forward to October, when Monis was hit with an additional 37 sex offences. |
| Stek asked a DPP solicitor (name suppressed) about whether Monis stood any chance of being refused bail. | Stek asked a DPP solicitor (name suppressed) about whether Monis stood any chance of being refused bail. |
| The DPP solicitor told him that “regardless of how he manipulated the variables in respect to our position, the confounding factor was the Bail Act of 2013, unamended as it was then”. | The DPP solicitor told him that “regardless of how he manipulated the variables in respect to our position, the confounding factor was the Bail Act of 2013, unamended as it was then”. |
| This strong stuff: testimony that reforms to the Bail Act - welcomed by much of the legal fraternity at the time - may have directly contributed to Monis being out on the street in December 2014. | This strong stuff: testimony that reforms to the Bail Act - welcomed by much of the legal fraternity at the time - may have directly contributed to Monis being out on the street in December 2014. |
| 2.23pm AEST05:23 | 2.23pm AEST05:23 |
| Stek is really teeing off on the Bail Act of 2013, which attempted to streamline the bail system in NSW by introducing a single test: asking if the accused posed an unacceptable risk, and then whether conditions could mitigate that risk. | Stek is really teeing off on the Bail Act of 2013, which attempted to streamline the bail system in NSW by introducing a single test: asking if the accused posed an unacceptable risk, and then whether conditions could mitigate that risk. |
| “In my opinion, it was clear that the law favoured accused persons in custody,” Stek says. | “In my opinion, it was clear that the law favoured accused persons in custody,” Stek says. |
| “I formed a view that unacceptable risk was just that, unacceptable, and could not be mitigated by strict bail conditions.” | “I formed a view that unacceptable risk was just that, unacceptable, and could not be mitigated by strict bail conditions.” |
| 2.18pm AEST05:18 | 2.18pm AEST05:18 |
| We’re back and hearing from detective Eugene Stek, a team leader within the NSW police’s sex crimes squad. | We’re back and hearing from detective Eugene Stek, a team leader within the NSW police’s sex crimes squad. |
| He’s talking about a courts decision on 22 May 2014 to grant Monis bail on three sex offences. Monis was “one of the first cases” to go before a magistrate under NSW’s reformed bail laws. | He’s talking about a courts decision on 22 May 2014 to grant Monis bail on three sex offences. Monis was “one of the first cases” to go before a magistrate under NSW’s reformed bail laws. |
| Stek believed Monis was likely to be freed. “I’m always optimistic, however, it was going to be very difficult,” he said. “I wasn’t sure how the courts were going to interpret the law.” | Stek believed Monis was likely to be freed. “I’m always optimistic, however, it was going to be very difficult,” he said. “I wasn’t sure how the courts were going to interpret the law.” |
| He personally disliked the new bail regime, believing “it would be easily manipulated by accused persons. It would be easy to show how the unacceptable risk could be mitigated by strict bail conditions”. | He personally disliked the new bail regime, believing “it would be easily manipulated by accused persons. It would be easy to show how the unacceptable risk could be mitigated by strict bail conditions”. |
| 12.59pm AEST03:59 | 12.59pm AEST03:59 |
| With that, the inquest is breaking for lunch. It returns in an hour. | With that, the inquest is breaking for lunch. It returns in an hour. |
| What we have learned so far today? | What we have learned so far today? |
| Updated at 2.26pm AEST | Updated at 2.26pm AEST |
| 12.54pm AEST03:54 | 12.54pm AEST03:54 |
| National criminal record database would be "a godsend" | National criminal record database would be "a godsend" |
| Michalko is outlining some of the challenges DPP solicitors face in getting information about defendants, especially at the local court level. Material comes in at late notice; some matters aren’t even recorded in the system; sometimes bail applications pop up in the list without notice “and you dont have time to make enquiries”, she says. “That happens pretty regularly.” | Michalko is outlining some of the challenges DPP solicitors face in getting information about defendants, especially at the local court level. Material comes in at late notice; some matters aren’t even recorded in the system; sometimes bail applications pop up in the list without notice “and you dont have time to make enquiries”, she says. “That happens pretty regularly.” |
| She’s asked about whether it would be helpful to have a national database showing a defendant’s criminal history and bail record. | She’s asked about whether it would be helpful to have a national database showing a defendant’s criminal history and bail record. |
| “That would be a godsend,” Michalko replies. | “That would be a godsend,” Michalko replies. |
| Updated at 1.00pm AEST | Updated at 1.00pm AEST |
| 12.35pm AEST03:35 | 12.35pm AEST03:35 |
| The last half-hour has seen discussion centre on Monis’ May 2014 bail hearing. Unfortunately, the line of questioning is mostly associated with another charge Monis was facing, which has been suppressed by the coroner’s court. | The last half-hour has seen discussion centre on Monis’ May 2014 bail hearing. Unfortunately, the line of questioning is mostly associated with another charge Monis was facing, which has been suppressed by the coroner’s court. |
| Whether the DPP should have alerted a magistrate to the charges Monis was facing - crimes allegedly committed while he was on bail - is still the big issue. We’re getting a close look at the inner workings of the DPP, whose staff are stretched at the best of times. It isn’t pretty. | Whether the DPP should have alerted a magistrate to the charges Monis was facing - crimes allegedly committed while he was on bail - is still the big issue. We’re getting a close look at the inner workings of the DPP, whose staff are stretched at the best of times. It isn’t pretty. |
| Updated at 12.40pm AEST | Updated at 12.40pm AEST |
| 11.52am AEST02:52 | 11.52am AEST02:52 |
| Michalko is asked: had you known in May 2014 that Monis had already been on bail when he allegedly committed three counts of sexual assault in 2010, would you have raised it with the court? | Michalko is asked: had you known in May 2014 that Monis had already been on bail when he allegedly committed three counts of sexual assault in 2010, would you have raised it with the court? |
| “Yes, but I expect that the rejoinder from the defence counsel and rightly so would have been ... he was already on bail for the accessory before and after the murder charges ... so I expect that there would have been a submission that that was of limited relevance,” she says. | “Yes, but I expect that the rejoinder from the defence counsel and rightly so would have been ... he was already on bail for the accessory before and after the murder charges ... so I expect that there would have been a submission that that was of limited relevance,” she says. |
| “At it’s highest, there was an allegation of the commission of an offence while he was on bail.” | “At it’s highest, there was an allegation of the commission of an offence while he was on bail.” |
| Monis was granted bail. | Monis was granted bail. |
| 11.25am AEST02:25 | 11.25am AEST02:25 |
| A new witness in the stand now, Larissa Michalko, a solicitor with the DPP. She appeared in court in May 2014, after Monis was first charged with sex offences. | A new witness in the stand now, Larissa Michalko, a solicitor with the DPP. She appeared in court in May 2014, after Monis was first charged with sex offences. |
| Updated at 11.37am AEST | Updated at 11.37am AEST |
| 10.57am AEST01:57 | 10.57am AEST01:57 |
| This has been a bruising exchange, but Vavayis has maintained her composure (not surprising, really, for an officer with the sex crimes unit). | This has been a bruising exchange, but Vavayis has maintained her composure (not surprising, really, for an officer with the sex crimes unit). |
| “At the end of the day you cannot arrest for the purposes of re-determining bail,” she says. “[Monis] was already on bail, he was complying with that bail, he was in attendance for every court date he was required to be at. | “At the end of the day you cannot arrest for the purposes of re-determining bail,” she says. “[Monis] was already on bail, he was complying with that bail, he was in attendance for every court date he was required to be at. |
| “We would be heavily criticised and potentially deemed as an unlawful arrest if we had arrested him under those circumstance,” she says. | “We would be heavily criticised and potentially deemed as an unlawful arrest if we had arrested him under those circumstance,” she says. |
| What this boils down to, ultimately, is the difference between the laws on the books and procedures and conventions that police actually follow. There’s a gap there, and Monis slipped through it. | What this boils down to, ultimately, is the difference between the laws on the books and procedures and conventions that police actually follow. There’s a gap there, and Monis slipped through it. |
| Updated at 10.58am AEST | Updated at 10.58am AEST |
| 10.51am AEST01:51 | 10.51am AEST01:51 |
| Why wasn't Monis arrested in October 2014? | Why wasn't Monis arrested in October 2014? |
| Here’s Vavayis full explanation for why Monis wasn’t arrested in October 2014 after being charged with an additional 37 sex offences: | Here’s Vavayis full explanation for why Monis wasn’t arrested in October 2014 after being charged with an additional 37 sex offences: |
| As I said, Mr Monis was already on bail, we had been dealing with his legal representatives for some time, he had complied with his bail conditions. All of that put together goes towards a police position that we are not lawfully able to arrest, as our policies say the least restrictive method is to be used. | As I said, Mr Monis was already on bail, we had been dealing with his legal representatives for some time, he had complied with his bail conditions. All of that put together goes towards a police position that we are not lawfully able to arrest, as our policies say the least restrictive method is to be used. |
| Now the DPP’s barrister goes in hard. | Now the DPP’s barrister goes in hard. |
| If police had genuinely had the concerns that are outlined in those paragraphs at the end of the police fact sheet ... police would have done something ensure Mr Monis did not appear before the court in a situation where he wasn’t bail refused. | If police had genuinely had the concerns that are outlined in those paragraphs at the end of the police fact sheet ... police would have done something ensure Mr Monis did not appear before the court in a situation where he wasn’t bail refused. |
| “That is incorrect,” Vavayis says. | “That is incorrect,” Vavayis says. |
| Updated at 2.26pm AEST | Updated at 2.26pm AEST |
| 10.46am AEST01:46 | 10.46am AEST01:46 |
| The DPP’s lawyer begs to differ, pointing to a section of legislation that would have allowed police to arrest Monis “because of the nature and seriousness of the offence”. So why wasn’t he arrested? Why was he just issued a future court attendance notice? | The DPP’s lawyer begs to differ, pointing to a section of legislation that would have allowed police to arrest Monis “because of the nature and seriousness of the offence”. So why wasn’t he arrested? Why was he just issued a future court attendance notice? |
| “It is part of 99(1) but it is not as clear cut as that and it wasn’t in this investigation,” Vavayis says. | “It is part of 99(1) but it is not as clear cut as that and it wasn’t in this investigation,” Vavayis says. |
| “Mr Monis had already been on bail, he was complying with those conditions, he hadn’t not attended court before.” | “Mr Monis had already been on bail, he was complying with those conditions, he hadn’t not attended court before.” |
| 10.41am AEST01:41 | 10.41am AEST01:41 |
| Now we’re hearing that in May 2014, when Monis was first charged with sex offences - and granted bail - the police were told that if Monis was arrested by police on further charges then his bail could be refused. | Now we’re hearing that in May 2014, when Monis was first charged with sex offences - and granted bail - the police were told that if Monis was arrested by police on further charges then his bail could be refused. |
| In October, Monis was charged with an additional 37 sex offences, but never arrested. The DPP’s barrister asks: why? | In October, Monis was charged with an additional 37 sex offences, but never arrested. The DPP’s barrister asks: why? |
| “We cannot arrest people without a lawful reason for arrest, and there didn’t exist one in this case,” Vavayis says. | “We cannot arrest people without a lawful reason for arrest, and there didn’t exist one in this case,” Vavayis says. |
| Updated at 2.26pm AEST | Updated at 2.26pm AEST |
| 10.26am AEST01:26 | 10.26am AEST01:26 |
| Remember what I said about that blame game? Denise Vavayis is back on the stand, and she’s talking about her interaction with the DPP solicitor who opposed Monis’ bail application. | Remember what I said about that blame game? Denise Vavayis is back on the stand, and she’s talking about her interaction with the DPP solicitor who opposed Monis’ bail application. |
| She’s told the inquest the DPP solicitor was having “personal difficulties” at the time of the hearing, and was “not at work on a consistent basis”. | She’s told the inquest the DPP solicitor was having “personal difficulties” at the time of the hearing, and was “not at work on a consistent basis”. |
| Vavayis put her concerns to the DPP about Monis being on the street, and asked about the prospects of a successful detention order. The DPP said there was little chance of having Monis’ bail revoked. | Vavayis put her concerns to the DPP about Monis being on the street, and asked about the prospects of a successful detention order. The DPP said there was little chance of having Monis’ bail revoked. |
| Vavayis was unhappy, but made no formal attempt to challenge his assessment. “I communicated that I understood his position but I’d have rathered that Mr Monis not be on bail,” she said. | Vavayis was unhappy, but made no formal attempt to challenge his assessment. “I communicated that I understood his position but I’d have rathered that Mr Monis not be on bail,” she said. |
| 10.17am AEST01:17 | 10.17am AEST01:17 |
| One of the interesting sub-plots to watch today is the burgeoning blame game between the office of the director of public prosecutions and the NSW police. | One of the interesting sub-plots to watch today is the burgeoning blame game between the office of the director of public prosecutions and the NSW police. |
| We heard yesterday that a magistrate considering Man Haron Monis’ bail application in October 2014 was not told that Monis may have broken an earlier bail agreement by committing three counts of sexual assault. | We heard yesterday that a magistrate considering Man Haron Monis’ bail application in October 2014 was not told that Monis may have broken an earlier bail agreement by committing three counts of sexual assault. |
| Whose fault is that? The DPP solicitor (name suppressed) who made the application was a rookie, two months into the job, and had never run that kind of matter before. Strictly speaking, it was his or her job to give the magistrate all the necessary information to keep Monis off the street. | Whose fault is that? The DPP solicitor (name suppressed) who made the application was a rookie, two months into the job, and had never run that kind of matter before. Strictly speaking, it was his or her job to give the magistrate all the necessary information to keep Monis off the street. |
| But we heard yesterday that the police also dropped the ball, never telling the DPP solicitor of Monis’ suspected criminal actions while on bail in 2010. Detective senior constable Denise Vavayis was asked whether she was to blame for that oversight. | But we heard yesterday that the police also dropped the ball, never telling the DPP solicitor of Monis’ suspected criminal actions while on bail in 2010. Detective senior constable Denise Vavayis was asked whether she was to blame for that oversight. |
| Not necessarily, he was still the DPP solicitor with carriage of the manner, my job in that respect is to provide him with the information I’m aware of. My job is not to make his decisions for him or to be an expert in terms of what he does in the court room, that’s his domain. | Not necessarily, he was still the DPP solicitor with carriage of the manner, my job in that respect is to provide him with the information I’m aware of. My job is not to make his decisions for him or to be an expert in terms of what he does in the court room, that’s his domain. |
| It’s a fraught matter. Let’s see how it plays out today. | It’s a fraught matter. Let’s see how it plays out today. |
| 10.01am AEST01:01 | 10.01am AEST01:01 |
| Welcome | Welcome |
| Good morning, we’re back in Sydney for another day of hearings as part of the New South Wales coroner’s inquest into the deaths of Tori Johnson, Katrina Dawson and Man Haron Monis during last December’s siege of the Lindt Cafe. | Good morning, we’re back in Sydney for another day of hearings as part of the New South Wales coroner’s inquest into the deaths of Tori Johnson, Katrina Dawson and Man Haron Monis during last December’s siege of the Lindt Cafe. |
| Missed yesterday? My colleague Bridie Jabour and I are discussing each day’s proceedings in a podcast available here. Take 10 minutes to listen to Monday’s episode. | Missed yesterday? My colleague Bridie Jabour and I are discussing each day’s proceedings in a podcast available here. Take 10 minutes to listen to Monday’s episode. |
| This latest round of hearings was opened yesterday by counsel assisting, Jeremy Gormly SC, and his junior, Sophie Callan. The big story? Monis was granted bail two months before the siege by a magistrate unaware the gunman may have broken an earlier bail agreement by committing three counts of sexual assault. The full story is here. | This latest round of hearings was opened yesterday by counsel assisting, Jeremy Gormly SC, and his junior, Sophie Callan. The big story? Monis was granted bail two months before the siege by a magistrate unaware the gunman may have broken an earlier bail agreement by committing three counts of sexual assault. The full story is here. |
| Check with us throughout the day for updates on today’s evidence. The first witness, up shortly, is detective senior constable Denise Vavayis from the NSW police sex crimes squad. | Check with us throughout the day for updates on today’s evidence. The first witness, up shortly, is detective senior constable Denise Vavayis from the NSW police sex crimes squad. |
| Updated at 10.11am AEST | Updated at 10.11am AEST |