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| Sydney siege inquest: DPP solicitor defends conduct of Monis bail case – rolling report | Sydney siege inquest: DPP solicitor defends conduct of Monis bail case – rolling report |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 3.50pm AEST06:50 | 3.50pm AEST06:50 |
| Part of the difficulty of ascertaining what this solicitor knew, and when he knew it, is that four weeks before the Sydney siege they turfed much of their working notes from the matter. | Part of the difficulty of ascertaining what this solicitor knew, and when he knew it, is that four weeks before the Sydney siege they turfed much of their working notes from the matter. |
| They didn’t print out every document and add it to the formal DPP file on the case either. Why? | They didn’t print out every document and add it to the formal DPP file on the case either. Why? |
| “I dont know,” they say. | “I dont know,” they say. |
| “There would be good reasons for doing it, is there not,” asks Dr Ian Freckleton QC. | “There would be good reasons for doing it, is there not,” asks Dr Ian Freckleton QC. |
| “I agree,” they say. | “I agree,” they say. |
| This is brutal. | This is brutal. |
| 3.38pm AEST06:38 | 3.38pm AEST06:38 |
| Bashir is boring into the DPP solicitor about their apparent errors: the fact they missed that Monis as on bail for postal offences when they committed the crime; the fact they failed to provide evidence that Monis was a flight risk; the fact the solicitor failed to draw upon the expertise of a police officer, Melanie Staples, who was across the brief and sitting in the courtroom that day. | Bashir is boring into the DPP solicitor about their apparent errors: the fact they missed that Monis as on bail for postal offences when they committed the crime; the fact they failed to provide evidence that Monis was a flight risk; the fact the solicitor failed to draw upon the expertise of a police officer, Melanie Staples, who was across the brief and sitting in the courtroom that day. |
| “Do you accept that there was critical evidence you hadn’t placed before the court?” she asks. | “Do you accept that there was critical evidence you hadn’t placed before the court?” she asks. |
| “No,” they reply. | “No,” they reply. |
| “That there were key submissions you hadn’t made in relation to alibi?” | “That there were key submissions you hadn’t made in relation to alibi?” |
| “I accept there were things I didn’t say, I wouldn’t say ‘key’, I wouldn’t use that word.” | “I accept there were things I didn’t say, I wouldn’t say ‘key’, I wouldn’t use that word.” |
| Bashirs offers another word: “Relevant?” | Bashirs offers another word: “Relevant?” |
| “Yes,” they reply. | “Yes,” they reply. |
| “This matter screaming out for review, wasn’t it?” | “This matter screaming out for review, wasn’t it?” |
| “No,” they say. | “No,” they say. |
| Updated at 3.44pm AEST | Updated at 3.44pm AEST |
| 3.09pm AEST06:09 | 3.09pm AEST06:09 |
| DPP solicitor had "fundamental misunderstanding" of law | DPP solicitor had "fundamental misunderstanding" of law |
| The anonymous DPP solicitor is back in the witness box, and the pressure hasn’t let up. Gabrielle Bashir SC, appearing for Tori Johnson’s family, has accused him of a “fundamental misunderstanding” of the law as it pertains to murder. | The anonymous DPP solicitor is back in the witness box, and the pressure hasn’t let up. Gabrielle Bashir SC, appearing for Tori Johnson’s family, has accused him of a “fundamental misunderstanding” of the law as it pertains to murder. |
| What she’s driving at is that the solicitor told the magistrate that the charges against Monis - being an accessory before and after a Monis - did not require “exceptional circumstances” in order to be released on bail, unlike the charge of murder. | What she’s driving at is that the solicitor told the magistrate that the charges against Monis - being an accessory before and after a Monis - did not require “exceptional circumstances” in order to be released on bail, unlike the charge of murder. |
| Bashir is arguing that being an accessory to murder is, for the purposes of bail, no different to being charged with murder - and has cited some case law as precedent. | Bashir is arguing that being an accessory to murder is, for the purposes of bail, no different to being charged with murder - and has cited some case law as precedent. |
| If she’s right, and had the solicitor advised the magistrate correctly, the onus would have been on Monis to prove those exceptional circumstances - which he may well have done, but it would have been a higher bar to clear. | If she’s right, and had the solicitor advised the magistrate correctly, the onus would have been on Monis to prove those exceptional circumstances - which he may well have done, but it would have been a higher bar to clear. |
| Updated at 3.12pm AEST | Updated at 3.12pm AEST |
| 2.38pm AEST05:38 | 2.38pm AEST05:38 |
| He says the same of Monis’ claims to be both an ayatollah and a sheikh. The latter “literally means an old man, or the leader of a clean, but it has evolved to mean a scholar of Islam,” he says. | He says the same of Monis’ claims to be both an ayatollah and a sheikh. The latter “literally means an old man, or the leader of a clean, but it has evolved to mean a scholar of Islam,” he says. |
| But unfortunately the name can be used by lay people or even backyard imams ... but in the proper scholarship tradition the title sheikh is for one who has attained a very high scholarship rank. And would be old, I’m talking 55+. | But unfortunately the name can be used by lay people or even backyard imams ... but in the proper scholarship tradition the title sheikh is for one who has attained a very high scholarship rank. And would be old, I’m talking 55+. |
| Monis’ work as a clairvoyant was “prohibited in Islam”, Abdalla says. This is also true of his astrology work. Spiritual healing is permitted but only for very experienced individuals, and never alone with members of the opposite sex, he says. | Monis’ work as a clairvoyant was “prohibited in Islam”, Abdalla says. This is also true of his astrology work. Spiritual healing is permitted but only for very experienced individuals, and never alone with members of the opposite sex, he says. |
| The highly sexualised way in which Monis conducted his so-called spiritual healing is obviously “not within Islamic teachings”, Abdalla adds. | The highly sexualised way in which Monis conducted his so-called spiritual healing is obviously “not within Islamic teachings”, Abdalla adds. |
| 2.32pm AEST05:32 | 2.32pm AEST05:32 |
| Monis also claimed to be a hojjat al-Islam, meaning “proof of Islam”. Abdalla says is it “an honorific title that is given to a person of high standing in terms of scholarship”. | Monis also claimed to be a hojjat al-Islam, meaning “proof of Islam”. Abdalla says is it “an honorific title that is given to a person of high standing in terms of scholarship”. |
| Is it likely that Monis was ever granted this title? Not really, Abdalla says. | Is it likely that Monis was ever granted this title? Not really, Abdalla says. |
| I believe it is, as a scholar myself in the tradition, I believe it is quite difficult for a person of that age and that experience to achieve hojjat al-Islam. | I believe it is, as a scholar myself in the tradition, I believe it is quite difficult for a person of that age and that experience to achieve hojjat al-Islam. |
| Had he really earned the title, he would have become “a reference point in the Shiite community”, and there’s no indication that ever happened, he says. | Had he really earned the title, he would have become “a reference point in the Shiite community”, and there’s no indication that ever happened, he says. |
| 2.26pm AEST05:26 | 2.26pm AEST05:26 |
| Few imams have reported ever having seen Monis in their mosques, Abdalla says. Does this indicate he didn’t frequently attend prayers? | Few imams have reported ever having seen Monis in their mosques, Abdalla says. Does this indicate he didn’t frequently attend prayers? |
| One would have to assume so, because even nominal people who attend a mosque on a regular basis would become known to the mosque ... and I think a son of Monis’ figure would have been noticed. | One would have to assume so, because even nominal people who attend a mosque on a regular basis would become known to the mosque ... and I think a son of Monis’ figure would have been noticed. |
| 2.20pm AEST05:20 | 2.20pm AEST05:20 |
| Gormly, in his lawyerly way, is trying to establish that Monis changed from Shia to Sunni in order to pledge allegiance to Islamic State. But Abdalla isn’t making it easy. | Gormly, in his lawyerly way, is trying to establish that Monis changed from Shia to Sunni in order to pledge allegiance to Islamic State. But Abdalla isn’t making it easy. |
| He asks, “Is it reasonable to infer that there was probably no other reason for someone in Mr Monis’ position to change all from Shiite to Sunni other than his alleged allegiance to IS?” | He asks, “Is it reasonable to infer that there was probably no other reason for someone in Mr Monis’ position to change all from Shiite to Sunni other than his alleged allegiance to IS?” |
| Yes, there could be [other reasons]. It is not necessary that he change from Shia to Sunni to associate himself with Isil [another name for Islamic State] ... Isis has not only committed atroicities against Shiites but against Sunnis also. | Yes, there could be [other reasons]. It is not necessary that he change from Shia to Sunni to associate himself with Isil [another name for Islamic State] ... Isis has not only committed atroicities against Shiites but against Sunnis also. |
| Abdalla goes on: | Abdalla goes on: |
| IS unfortunately are predominantly Sunni followers, of the Sunni tradition, or they claim to be ... especially if you look at the members of IS, coming from various countries, who are predominantly Sunnis. So the label that IS are Sunnis, stands. As to whether they actually do represent the teachings of Sunni Islam, that’s another story. | IS unfortunately are predominantly Sunni followers, of the Sunni tradition, or they claim to be ... especially if you look at the members of IS, coming from various countries, who are predominantly Sunnis. So the label that IS are Sunnis, stands. As to whether they actually do represent the teachings of Sunni Islam, that’s another story. |
| Updated at 2.25pm AEST | Updated at 2.25pm AEST |
| 2.15pm AEST05:15 | 2.15pm AEST05:15 |
| Gormly: “If you had a [Shia] person who was not scholarly or who did not have an interest in the original dispute that led to the distinction between [Shia] and Sunni, would they have other reasons for wanting to change allegiance?” | |
| Not necessarily. Usually, lay [Shias], common [Shias], would tend to be quite comfortable where they are. That’s why it’s not uncommon to see them frequent Sunni mosques from time to time for prayer. | |
| Updated at 4.18pm AEST | |
| 2.12pm AEST05:12 | 2.12pm AEST05:12 |
| Abdalla says there is “no ritual” required to change between Islam’s two largest branches. | Abdalla says there is “no ritual” required to change between Islam’s two largest branches. |
| “If one decides move from a Sunni school of thought to a [Shia] school of thought they simply do so,” he says. | |
| Abdalla says one way of distinguishing the two is the “distinctively different attire” one might wear. For example, the way a Shia scholar wears a turban is “slightly different” from the way a Sunni might wear one. | |
| Updated at 4.17pm AEST | |
| 2.09pm AEST05:09 | 2.09pm AEST05:09 |
| In the witness box now is Associate Professor Mohamad Abdalla, an Islamic studies expert from Griffith University. He’s going to advise the inquest on Monis’s claims to be a sheikh, and his conversion from Shia Muslim to Sunni Muslim in the days before the Sydney siege. | |
| Updated at 4.17pm AEST | |
| 1.14pm AEST04:14 | 1.14pm AEST04:14 |
| Much of the last hour has been subject to suppression orders, and now they’ve gone to lunch. Here’s what we heard this dreary, rainy morning: | |
| Do stick with us. The inquest returns at 2pm AEST. | Do stick with us. The inquest returns at 2pm AEST. |
| Updated at 4.16pm AEST | |
| 11.56am AEST02:56 | 11.56am AEST02:56 |
| Islamic studies expert to give evidence later on Monday | |
| Also due to give evidence today is Associate Professor Mohamad Abdalla, an Islamic studies expert from Griffith University. | |
| Updated at 4.14pm AEST | |
| 11.53am AEST02:53 | 11.53am AEST02:53 |
| The DPP solicitor is still being question by Thangaraj, who, like Gormly on Friday, is trying to establish whether the solicitor received a police submission outlining reasons why Monis was too dangerous to release on bail. | The DPP solicitor is still being question by Thangaraj, who, like Gormly on Friday, is trying to establish whether the solicitor received a police submission outlining reasons why Monis was too dangerous to release on bail. |
| The police claim they did pass the solicitor the documents, but the solicitor failed to present the information to the magistrate, undermining the case for denying Monis bail. | The police claim they did pass the solicitor the documents, but the solicitor failed to present the information to the magistrate, undermining the case for denying Monis bail. |
| The solicitor maintains: “I don’t recall seeing exhibit seven [the police letter] before.” | |
| Updated at 4.14pm AEST | |
| 11.32am AEST02:32 | 11.32am AEST02:32 |
| Thangaraj is trying to establish whether the DPP solicitor was aware the police were unhappy with the solicitor’s performance (apparently the solicitor was accused of doing “a terrible job”). | |
| “During the course of the hearing were you aware the police were getting frustrated?” Thangaraj asks. | “During the course of the hearing were you aware the police were getting frustrated?” Thangaraj asks. |
| The solicitor was focusing on the hearing, “not what the police were doing at the back of the court”. | |
| Nonetheless, Thangaraj says, “Did you get a sense they were upset and frustrated at the way it was going?” | |
| “No.” | |
| “Did you form a belief that they thought you were not making all the submissions they thought you should have made on these topics?” | “Did you form a belief that they thought you were not making all the submissions they thought you should have made on these topics?” |
| “No.” | “No.” |
| Updated at 4.13pm AEST | |
| 11.11am AEST02:11 | 11.11am AEST02:11 |
| The DPP solicitor is being questioned by Murugan Thangaraj SC, appearing on behalf of Katrina Dawson’s family. | |
| Thangaraj begins by asking whether the solicitor – who, again, we can’t name – knew Asio agents were present at each of Monis’s court appearances. | |
| Interestingly, the DPP solicitor discovered their presence “only this past week” when it was reported in the media. | |
| The solicitor also points out that the facts of the case demonstrated that Monis was already on bail when he allegedly acted as an accessory before and after a murder. Did the solicitor miss this? | |
| It is the case that I did not focus my mind on that particular issue. | It is the case that I did not focus my mind on that particular issue. |
| “Well that means you missed it,” Thangaraj says. | “Well that means you missed it,” Thangaraj says. |
| Oh, yes. | Oh, yes. |
| Updated at 4.12pm AEST | |
| 11.11am AEST02:11 | 11.11am AEST02:11 |
| Back in the witness box this morning is the DPP solicitor (name suppressed) who handled Monis’s December 2013 bail hearing. | |
| Last week the solicitor accused by both police and counsel assisting, Jeremly Gormly SC, of being insufficiently prepared for court the day Monis applied for bail, charges the solicitor strenuously denied. | |
| Here’s a quick recap of their evidence last Friday: | Here’s a quick recap of their evidence last Friday: |
| The inquest heard the solicitor had received an email one month before the bail hearing providing evidence that Monis was a flight risk. | The inquest heard the solicitor had received an email one month before the bail hearing providing evidence that Monis was a flight risk. |
| But transcripts from the December 2013 hearing show that, when asked by the magistrate whether there was any such evidence, the solicitor responded: “I have to take some further instructions on that.” | But transcripts from the December 2013 hearing show that, when asked by the magistrate whether there was any such evidence, the solicitor responded: “I have to take some further instructions on that.” |
| Counsel assisting, Jeremy Gormly SC, said the solicitor did not cite the email “because you had not prepared sufficiently to enable that information to be available to be provided by the court”, a suggestion the solicitor denied. | |
| A lawyer for Monis, Manny Conditsis, prepared a detailed 30-page brief for the magistrate outlining why the self-styled religious cleric should be granted bail. | A lawyer for Monis, Manny Conditsis, prepared a detailed 30-page brief for the magistrate outlining why the self-styled religious cleric should be granted bail. |
| In response to this “threatening application”, Gormly suggested the DPP solicitor should have “do[ne] whatever it is that is necessary to put some written submissions together”. Instead the solicitor relied on oral submissions. | |
| The DPP solicitor told the inquest of disappointment at the outcome of the bail hearing. “I felt under siege and I felt that I was doing the best I could,” the solicitor said. | |
| Updated at 4.10pm AEST | |
| 11.11am AEST02:11 | 11.11am AEST02:11 |
| Welcome | Welcome |
| Good morning. We’re back at the New South Wales coroner’s court for more public hearings into the deaths of Katrina Dawson, Tori Johnson and gunman Man Haron Monis in last December’s siege of the Lindt Cafe. | |
| Last week saw much buck-passing between the NSW police and the 0ffice of the director of public prosecutions about why Monis was on bail. | |
| That is likely to continue on Monday, but in the coming days we will hear from an expert bail panel, which has reviewed Monis’s three successful bail applications in the 12 months before he staged the siege. | |
| We also expect to hear new evidence about Monis’s life in Iran, a discussion on whether the siege constituted an act of terrorism, and expert evidence on whether the gunman was “radicalised” at the time of the siege. | |
| Updated at 4.08pm AEST |