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Chris Norman describes how he helped overpower French train gunman British grandfather describes how he helped overpower gunman
(about 2 hours later)
When British IT consultant Chris Norman boarded a train at Amsterdam airport on his way back to France last Friday, he didn’t expect to find himself, just over an hour later, splattered with blood and pinning down a gunman as he tried to fasten a cable tie around the man’s hands with his teeth. When British IT consultant Chris Norman boarded a train at Amsterdam airport on his way back to France last Friday, he did not expect to find himself, just over an hour later, splattered with blood and pinning down a gunman as he tried to fasten a cable tie around the man’s hands with his teeth.
After president François Hollande on Monday awarded Norman France’s highest distinction, the Légion d’honneur, for helping to avert a massacre on the high-speed Amsterdam-to-Paris train, the 62-year-old grandfather of three said that the events were still sinking in. After president François Hollande on Monday awarded Norman with France’s highest distinction, the Légion d’honneur, for helping to avert a massacre on the high-speed Amsterdam-to-Paris train, the 62-year-old grandfather of three said the events were still sinking in.
“The journey was going fine, passengers were beginning to sleep a bit, there wasn’t much noise in the carriage and I was working on my computer trying to get the Wi-Fi to connect,” said Norman, who has lived in France for 25 years.“The journey was going fine, passengers were beginning to sleep a bit, there wasn’t much noise in the carriage and I was working on my computer trying to get the Wi-Fi to connect,” said Norman, who has lived in France for 25 years.
“The first thing I heard was what I assumed was a gunshot,” he said. Born in Uganda, he grew up in various countries across Africa and had taken part in target practice at school.“The first thing I heard was what I assumed was a gunshot,” he said. Born in Uganda, he grew up in various countries across Africa and had taken part in target practice at school.
“I heard some glass breaking and as the shot went off, there was a guy who rushed through the carriage towards the front of the train. I stood up, and saw the gunman holding what looked like an AK-47, certainly a submachine gun. At that stage, I sat back down in my seat. Frankly, I was dead scared. And I thought, what do I do now?” “I heard some glass breaking and, as the shot went off, there was a guy who rushed through the carriage towards the front of the train. I stood up, and saw the gunman holding what looked like an AK-47, certainly a submachine gun.
Norman, who travels widely for work, said he had often mused about what he’d do “if this type of thing happened”. But he’d never thought about it happening on a train. “At that stage, I sat back down in my seat. Frankly, I was dead scared. And I thought, what do I do now?”
“I said to myself, ‘Well, don’t be the guy that just sits there and gets shot’. So I was trying to work out what to do. [The gunman] was at the end of the carriage. I was hiding behind a seat and I was hoping that by doing that he wouldn’t be able to hit me immediately,” he said. Norman, who travels widely for work, said he had often mused about what he would do “if this type of thing happened”. But he had never thought about it happening on a train.
Norman noticed three young American friends leap up. “I heard one of the Americans say ‘Go get him Spence!’, the other one said ‘No you don’t do that, buddy’. I thought great, somebody’s actually intervening, let me stand up because we’ve got much more chance as a team. Let’s go!” “I said to myself: ‘Well, don’t be the guy that just sits there and gets shot.’ So I was trying to work out what to do. [The gunman] was at the end of the carriage. I was hiding behind a seat and I was hoping that by doing that he wouldn’t be able to hit me immediately,” he said.
Norman noticed three young American friends leap up. “I heard one of the Americans say: ‘Go get him Spence.’ The other one said: ‘No, you don’t do that, buddy.’
“I thought great, somebody’s actually intervening, let me stand up because we’ve got much more chance as a team. Let’s go!”
Two of the Americans were off-duty soldiers on holiday in Europe. One, Spencer Stone, held the gunman, 25-year-old Moroccan, Ayoub El-Khazzani, in a choke-hold, while the other, Alek Skarlatos, first took away the Kalashnikov, then a pistol that the gunman had pulled on him.Two of the Americans were off-duty soldiers on holiday in Europe. One, Spencer Stone, held the gunman, 25-year-old Moroccan, Ayoub El-Khazzani, in a choke-hold, while the other, Alek Skarlatos, first took away the Kalashnikov, then a pistol that the gunman had pulled on him.
“I just pounced on the gunman’s arm so that he couldn’t actually use it, and I held his arm to the ground,” Norman said. “We all held him until he stopped struggling.”“I just pounced on the gunman’s arm so that he couldn’t actually use it, and I held his arm to the ground,” Norman said. “We all held him until he stopped struggling.”
The Americans beat the gunman until he lost consciousness. “Alek had held the pistol to his head and said ‘Stop, stop,’ and that had no effect – he carried on struggling,” Norman said.The Americans beat the gunman until he lost consciousness. “Alek had held the pistol to his head and said ‘Stop, stop,’ and that had no effect – he carried on struggling,” Norman said.
When the gunman began to lose consciousness, Skarlatos told Norman to hold down the man while he went to look for any other gunmen and Stone tended to a man who had been shot. An off-duty French train driver travelling in the carriage held down the gunman’s other arm. When the gunman began to lose consciousness, Skarlatos told Norman to hold down the man while he went to look for any other gunmen and Stone tended to a man who had been shot.
An off-duty French train driver travelling in the carriage held down the gunman’s other arm.
Norman wanted to make sure the gunman remained immobile. “First, I held his hands behind his back. Then somebody came along with cable ties which we tried to put on him ... My hands were covered with sweat so I pulled the cable ties with my teeth. They didn’t work, so a passenger gave me his tie.”Norman wanted to make sure the gunman remained immobile. “First, I held his hands behind his back. Then somebody came along with cable ties which we tried to put on him ... My hands were covered with sweat so I pulled the cable ties with my teeth. They didn’t work, so a passenger gave me his tie.”
Norman used the tie to restrain the gunman’s hands, then he and the off-duty train driver tied his feet together with another passenger’s scarf.Norman used the tie to restrain the gunman’s hands, then he and the off-duty train driver tied his feet together with another passenger’s scarf.
“I was dead scared that there might be [another gunman] on the train,” he said. “And I was just trying to make certain that this guy was not going to get up again and didn’t have any opportunity to be a threat.”“I was dead scared that there might be [another gunman] on the train,” he said. “And I was just trying to make certain that this guy was not going to get up again and didn’t have any opportunity to be a threat.”
He said of the gunman: “He was slight, he didn’t appear to me to be very strong ... But I was also concerned that he was on drugs of some sort and who knows what kind of strength that can give? So I was being very cautious.”He said of the gunman: “He was slight, he didn’t appear to me to be very strong ... But I was also concerned that he was on drugs of some sort and who knows what kind of strength that can give? So I was being very cautious.”
When the train made an emergency stop at Arras station in northern France, police boarded the train to arrest the gunman.When the train made an emergency stop at Arras station in northern France, police boarded the train to arrest the gunman.
Norman said he was “incredibly honoured” to receive the Légion d’honneur, but he felt the Americans had done most of the work.Norman said he was “incredibly honoured” to receive the Légion d’honneur, but he felt the Americans had done most of the work.
He said: “My message to people is that if it does happen to you, be aware that there is a possibility to act. Don’t act completely rashly but, when the opportunity arises, for god’s sake jump in there.” He said: “My message to people is that if it does happen to you, be aware that there is a possibility to act. Don’t act completely rashly but, when the opportunity arises, for God’s sake jump in there.”
He added: “The thing that stands out is that you can’t wait. If you make a decision, if you see something like that and there is an opportunity, then act.” He added: “The thing that stands out is that you can’t wait. If you make a decision, if you see something like that and there is an opportunity, then act.
“I think the traditional advice that we’ve all grown up with over the last 30 or 40 years is don’t intervene, don’t do those kinds of things. Because I think the ways terrorists once operated was very different. They weren’t killing people to start off with. Whereas here they come in and they’re going to kill you, so you have to think about it differently.” “I think the traditional advice that we’ve all grown up with over the last 30 or 40 years is don’t intervene, don’t do those kinds of things.
“Because I think the ways terrorists once operated was very different. They weren’t killing people to start off with. Whereas here they come in and they’re going to kill you, so you have to think about it differently.”
Asked what he had learned about himself, Norman said: “I always wondered how I would react. Now I know and I don’t want to do it again. It was quite an amazing experience, I don’t want to relive it.”Asked what he had learned about himself, Norman said: “I always wondered how I would react. Now I know and I don’t want to do it again. It was quite an amazing experience, I don’t want to relive it.”