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Kids Company chiefs deny handing out cash 'willy nilly' Kids Company chiefs quizzed over client number discrepancies
(about 2 hours later)
The founder of Kids Company, Camila Batmanghelidjh, and her chair of trustees, Alan Yentob, have been subjected to a ferocious grilling by MPs and forced to deny that the charity was handing out money “willy nilly”. The founder of Kids Company and her chair of trustees have been forced by MPs to defend huge discrepancies with social services chiefs over the number of children on their books.
During a series of heated and often bad-tempered exchanges, MPs ripped into the pair, accusing Batmanghelidjh of dodging questions and delivering instead a “non-stop spiel of psychobabble” and a “torrent of verbal ectoplasm”. During ferocious exchanges, Camilla Batmanghelidj, the charity’s founder, was accused of employing “a non-stop spiel, psychobabble” and a “torrent of verbal ectoplasm” rather than answer questions about the governance and management of an organisation which received more than £30m of taxpayers’ money.
Batmanghelidjh and Yentob, who is also creative director of the BBC, were giving evidence to MPs on the Commons public administration and constitutional affairs select committee as part of its inquiry into the sudden closure of Kids Company in August. Alan Yentob, the BBC’s creative director and chair of trustees at Kids Company for 20 years, denied repeatedly that there had been any mismanagement or failure of governance.
The committee heard that the charity spent £73,000 on a client – the highest spending on one individual – who received psychiatric treatment in a private hospital because no NHS beds were available. MPs also put it to the pair that cash was distributed to clients “in little packages through a small window in reception”. Bernard Jenkin, chair of the commons public administration and constitutional affairs committee, said: “A charity involved in such responsible work and employing so many people, was it really sensible to live such a hand-to-mouth existence?”
In one tetchy exchange, the Tory MP Bernard Jenkin asked Batmanghelidjh: “Was it true people over 18 were receiving more than £100 a week?” But Yentob replied: “I don’t believe that this charity was not run properly.”
When she replied that that would be “very rare”, he asked her: “You are aware it’s a contempt of parliament to mislead this committee and that is a very serious thing? Are you sure you want to make that statement?” At one point Batmanghelidj challenged Jenkin, saying: “On what basis do you keep saying this is a failing charity?”
The committee also asked about a memo from the charity to the Cabinet Office warning that if it closed there was a danger that the community it served would “descend into savagery” with possible riots and arson attacks. “Because it’s gone bust,” Jenkin replied.
Yentob argued it was “a worst-case scenario”, adding that five days after Kids Company closed its doors a boy who had been attending crime prevention workshops was murdered. He said there had been stabbings and four suicide attempts. Kids Company was put into receivership in the summer, shortly after the Cabinet Office had approved a new government grant of £3m.
Jenkin challenged him, saying the committee had been told that the upsurge in violence had occurred because “kids no longer had money to pay their drug pushers” and there had been a “breakdown in the flow of funds to the streets”. More than £800,000 of it was spent on staff salaries, and the government is now trying to claw back the funding. A police investigation into allegations of sexual assault is ongoing.
Batmanghelidjh defended financial arrangements at the charity, saying that any payments over £5,000 had to be approved by the board, and insisted that smaller payments to clients were properly supervised. Central to the challenges faced by the two most senior figures in Kids Company on Thursday was a discrepancy over the exact numbers of young people they looked after.
“Everything would go in an envelope for the individual child with a receipt on top. It was then driven down to the street-level centres,” she said. “When it would arrive at the end of the week at the street-level centre, the team inside that reception area would oversee the handing out of the envelope for which the client had to sign.” Yentob and Batmanghelidjh repeatedly stated – as do the charity accounts – that it had 36,000 clients. But after the closure in the summer, when emergency meetings were held with social services teams in order for care to be handed over, Kids Company only provided files on a tiny proportion of that number.
The MPs’ inquiry is one of a number of investigations set up after Kids Company suddenly closed its doors in August, within days of being given a £3m restructuring grant by the government. Evidence from the director of social service for Southwark revealed that he had “extracted” 1,699 records of young people from Kids Company in the aftermath of its closure in August.
Serious questions were raised about the financial management and leadership of the charity, and the degree of sustained and substantial financial support it had received from government ministers. “He would have expected thousands from your clients,” said Jenkin. “He also makes it clear that if there was this massive unmet need in his borough he would know about it. Why don’t you think they know about it?”
Of particular concern, according to the outline of the scope of the MPs’ inquiry on Thursday, was the decision by Cabinet Office ministers to provide the emergency funding, despite concerns raised by the permanent secretary that included a request for “ministerial direction”. Batmanghelidjh replied that social services had put limits and boundaries on the kinds of young people they would take on. Her charity, she said, was the only agency willing to deal with some of the most disturbed children and young people in the country.
Within hours of the money being deposited on 30 July, the BBC reported that the Metropolitan police’s sexual offences, exploitation and child abuse team was investigating allegations of crimes committed on Kids Company premises. But refuting that, Kate Hoey read evidence from the leader of Southwark council, Peter Johns. He said: “I have repeatedly on behalf of Southwark and other councils asked for details of all Kids Company’s London-based clients. I set no threshholds and imposed no criteria. We just wanted details of clients.”
Philanthropists who had pledged millions of pounds pulled out and the charity shut its doors on 5 August. Paul Flynn accused Batmanghelidjh of using “non stop spiel, psychobabble and a torrent” of words rather than answer questions.
Batmanghelidjh founded Kids Company nearly 20 years ago. It provided care, support and education for around 36,000 vulnerable young people a year, as well as their relatives, in London, Bristol and Liverpool. Many of its clients experienced sexual abuse, violence, addiction, mental illness and family instability. Johns also told the committee that when the official receiver stepped in he found no other files to pass on to Southwark.
Iranian-born Batmanghelidjh, a psychotherapist, was courted by David Cameron when he was in opposition, and was initially a supporter of his “big society” project. But in recent years she has been critical of the government’s austerity policies and what she sees as its failure to invest properly in child protection. Batmanghelidjh gave various answers, saying at one point that two thousand files had been put into secure storage and 15,933 individual cases were on the charity database. Yentob said some files had been stolen and there were data protection issues that had to be considered.
She raised more than £150m in public donations for Kids Company over the years. The charity’s celebrity supporters and donors included Coldplay, Damien Hirst, Michael McIntyre, JK Rowling and Emma Thompson. “Why haven’t you handed those files over?” said Jenkin.
Oliver Dowden, MP, said there was evidence from other witnesses that social services had looked at many cases where public funds had been used by Kids Company to support clients and found the individuals were not in need of support.
“What is your response to that? They said you were servicing clients that didn’t exist, there wasn’t a need for it?” asked Dowden.
Batmanghelidhj responded: “I refute that.”
Dowden pressed her again: “Social services had visited these clients, carried out an assessment and determined there was not a need to be engaged with these people.”
Jenkin also revealed that in a list of the 25 clients who had most money spent on them, one client had received £73,000.
Batmanghelidjh said this money had paid for treatment in hospital because the client was ill and psychotic and there was no bed available in an NHS hospital.
“Was it true people over 18 were receiving more than £100 a week?” Jenkin asked.
When Batmanghelidjh replied that would be “very rare” he warned her: “You are aware it’s a contempt of parliament to mislead this committee and that is a very serious thing? Are you sure you want to make that statement?”
Finally she said the “living allowances” given to clients, which came in the form of food vouchers, bus passes and money, ranged from £10 to £200 a week. Any expenditure over £5,000 had to be approved by the trustees.
Batmanghelidhj also admitted, under questionning from Hoey, that the charity had paid the mortgage for one individual and paid to support another client overseas when he was deported.
The committee also asked about a memo from the charity to the Cabinet Office warning that if it closed there was a danger the community it served would “descend into savagery” with possible riots and arson attacks.
Yentob argued it was “a worst case scenario”, adding that five days after Kids Company closed its doors a boy who had been attending crime prevention workshops was murdered. He said there had been stabbings and four suicide attempts.
But Jenkin said a reliable source had informed the committee that the recent upsurge in violence had happened because “kids no longer had money to pay their drug pushers” and there had been a “breakdown in the flow of funds to the streets”.