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Version 7 Version 8
George Osborne: Public rightly angry about bad bankers - as it happened George Osborne: Public rightly angry about bad bankers - as it happened
(about 1 month later)
5.38pm GMT5.38pm GMT
17:3817:38
European markets close higherEuropean markets close higher
Despite more weak Chinese data and worries about US rate rises in December, markets have recovered a little poise. A spate of well received earnings reports from Europe, including Carlsberg, helped matters, while the AB InBev bid for SABMiller also lifted investors’ spirits. The final scores showed:Despite more weak Chinese data and worries about US rate rises in December, markets have recovered a little poise. A spate of well received earnings reports from Europe, including Carlsberg, helped matters, while the AB InBev bid for SABMiller also lifted investors’ spirits. The final scores showed:
On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average is currently up 37 points or 0.2%.On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average is currently up 37 points or 0.2%.
On that note, it’s time to close up for the evening. Thanks for all your comments and we’ll be back tomorrow.On that note, it’s time to close up for the evening. Thanks for all your comments and we’ll be back tomorrow.
5.25pm GMT5.25pm GMT
17:2517:25
You heard him! Drinks on Mark #BoEOpenForumYou heard him! Drinks on Mark #BoEOpenForum
5.24pm GMT5.24pm GMT
17:2417:24
And then Carney is gone, after a promise of drinks in the crypt for those in the Guildhall, drinks on the Daily Mail’s Alex Brummer for those who attended his session in Edinburgh and for those at home, drinks in the local pub on the Bank thanks to its QE programme.And then Carney is gone, after a promise of drinks in the crypt for those in the Guildhall, drinks on the Daily Mail’s Alex Brummer for those who attended his session in Edinburgh and for those at home, drinks in the local pub on the Bank thanks to its QE programme.
5.20pm GMT5.20pm GMT
17:2017:20
Carney: [It is] the responsibility of authorities to explain why things are being done. Lot of postings said there is a lot of jargon...even as we are trying to explain things.Carney: [It is] the responsibility of authorities to explain why things are being done. Lot of postings said there is a lot of jargon...even as we are trying to explain things.
UpdatedUpdated
at 5.21pm GMTat 5.21pm GMT
5.16pm GMT5.16pm GMT
17:1617:16
In his closing remarks, Bank of England governor Mark Carney - who maintained his net contribution was to come up with the words Open Forum - repeated the disconnect between the sector and the public:In his closing remarks, Bank of England governor Mark Carney - who maintained his net contribution was to come up with the words Open Forum - repeated the disconnect between the sector and the public:
We are all going to go back and reflect on what we’ve learned.We are all going to go back and reflect on what we’ve learned.
[In the sessions there was] almost universal reaffirmation of the imporatance of markets,... not just to the econmy but to people’s everyday lives.[In the sessions there was] almost universal reaffirmation of the imporatance of markets,... not just to the econmy but to people’s everyday lives.
But the level of trust is quite low. Disconnect in how we in finance see sector and how public see the sector.But the level of trust is quite low. Disconnect in how we in finance see sector and how public see the sector.
The disconnect is not in public’s mind.The disconnect is not in public’s mind.
There is optimism around institutions, a lot has been done to make banks stronger, they are beginning to adjust their business models. [We can say to them] there is no other big wave of capital regulation coming, last pieces of puzzle are put in place.There is optimism around institutions, a lot has been done to make banks stronger, they are beginning to adjust their business models. [We can say to them] there is no other big wave of capital regulation coming, last pieces of puzzle are put in place.
Now it’s about adjusting business models to new realities. Business models pre-crisis not going to be effective now.Now it’s about adjusting business models to new realities. Business models pre-crisis not going to be effective now.
Back to trust and he said:Back to trust and he said:
Trust is low for two reasons, because of misconduct. lack of client focus.Trust is low for two reasons, because of misconduct. lack of client focus.
5.03pm GMT5.03pm GMT
17:0317:03
As we edge towards the close, both the Bank’s Jon Cunliffe and chair of this final panel Sir Richard Lambert agree the discussion has been useful and should continue after this event finishes.As we edge towards the close, both the Bank’s Jon Cunliffe and chair of this final panel Sir Richard Lambert agree the discussion has been useful and should continue after this event finishes.
UpdatedUpdated
at 5.03pm GMTat 5.03pm GMT
4.58pm GMT4.58pm GMT
16:5816:58
Giles Fraser says its time to get rid of acronyms - it’s a part of group think we should do without.Giles Fraser says its time to get rid of acronyms - it’s a part of group think we should do without.
Call by @gilesfraser for ban on acronyms goes down well in Edinburgh #BoEOpenForumCall by @gilesfraser for ban on acronyms goes down well in Edinburgh #BoEOpenForum
4.44pm GMT4.44pm GMT
16:4416:44
Sir Jon Cunliffe, deputy governor at the Bank of England on credit:Sir Jon Cunliffe, deputy governor at the Bank of England on credit:
John cunliffe responding to my earlier Q: ''credit is a public good like water - like water you can drown in it.'' Quite so. #BoEOpenForumJohn cunliffe responding to my earlier Q: ''credit is a public good like water - like water you can drown in it.'' Quite so. #BoEOpenForum
4.40pm GMT4.40pm GMT
16:4016:40
A rival candidate for quote of the day, from the final panel going on now. Talking about debt and credit, the Reverend Canon Giles Fraser said:A rival candidate for quote of the day, from the final panel going on now. Talking about debt and credit, the Reverend Canon Giles Fraser said:
We are approaching this terrible time called Christmas.. go into the Westfield shopping centre and you’ll see tens of thousands of people buying lots of things they don’t want with money they don’t have for people they don’t like.We are approaching this terrible time called Christmas.. go into the Westfield shopping centre and you’ll see tens of thousands of people buying lots of things they don’t want with money they don’t have for people they don’t like.
We’re encouraged to do this because of this thing called growth. I worry about moral hazard of debt...We’re encouraged to do this because of this thing called growth. I worry about moral hazard of debt...
UpdatedUpdated
at 4.42pm GMTat 4.42pm GMT
4.28pm GMT4.28pm GMT
16:2816:28
Nobody knows how money works these days, we just hope it's there when we need it - quote of the day Blythe Masters #BoEOpenForumNobody knows how money works these days, we just hope it's there when we need it - quote of the day Blythe Masters #BoEOpenForum
Blythe Masters, the chief executive of Digital Asset Holdings, was speaking at one of the afternoon sessions.Blythe Masters, the chief executive of Digital Asset Holdings, was speaking at one of the afternoon sessions.
4.25pm GMT
16:25
But there is a divergence between how the bankers and the public think reform of the sector is going:
Great comments by Gillian Guy @CitizensAdvice on gulf between industry and public on how banking reform is going #BoEopenforum
'Not enough for the public to understand finance. The financial industry needs to understand the public'. Gillian Guy at #BoEOpenForum
Updated
at 4.29pm GMT
4.23pm GMT
16:23
Adding to the theme of banking and its wider role in society as heard at the Bank of England’s open forum, Mark Taylor, Dean of Warwick Business School and a former senior economist at the Bank, said:
Mark Carney is on a charm offensive in order to encourage the public to think about bankers in a better way. After all we need a strong financial sector, it represents eight per cent of the UK’s GDP and 20 per cent of income in London alone. It is an important part of the economy, and in order to grow other sectors like manufacturing we need a strong financial sector. But the banking sector needs to act ethically and in the best interests of society for it to work properly. We need bankers to think of their impact on society and not just on their wallet.
4.03pm GMT
16:03
European Central Bank president Mario Draghi may not have caused any market moving sparks in his speech at the Open Forum earlier.
But Reuters is reporting that the ECB is considering extending its QE programme by buying municipal bonds of cities like Paris or regions like Bavaria, according to sources. Reuters says:
This regional bond buying could be one in a series of measures to be rolled out in the coming months, although one of the sources said time was short for a full launch in December and that this would likely come by March next year.
The ECB declined to comment.
Despite the ECB’s scheme of quantitative easing (QE) to buy chiefly state bonds, the eurozone’s economy is growing only modestly and the central bank is urgently considering what more it can do to improve it and stagnant price inflation.
As part of preparations for the next rate-setting meeting of policy-setters on Dec. 3, ECB officials are now analysing whether and how to extend its shopping list to municipal bonds, issued by, say, Madrid or Mainz, or a federal German state.
“You have big markets, such as Spain and Italy. France has a well developed market,” said one person.
According to data from Thomson Reuters IFR, almost $500 billion of bonds issued by European cities and regions are in circulation. The regions have sold more than $76 billion of bonds over the last year.
The source said that while some cities were risky, they had the fallback of central governments. Municipal bonds typically have a lower credit rating than governments. It is a fragmented market in Europe, with many small issues.
3.51pm GMT
15:51
Back with the Bank of England’s Open Forum, and here’s something to illustrate the main themes, ahead of the day’s summing up.
Here's some of the key themes and challenges coming out of #BoEOpenForum drawn by our visual artists pic.twitter.com/wEo8fKFd5x
3.47pm GMT
15:47
Elsewhere, the Bank of Spain has said the country’s third quarter GDP grew 0.8% quarter on quarter.
It repeated its estimate of 3.1% growth in 2015 and 2.7% in 2016. But it admits the risks to these forecasts have increased since June.
3.41pm GMT
15:41
Meanwhile in Greece, the country’s banks will need less than €10bn for recapitalisation, MNI is reporting.
3.13pm GMT
15:13
There’s not much to argue with here....and maybe that’s the problem:
Participants in the Edinburgh #BoEOpenForum are reporting back on the themes of their round-table discussions pic.twitter.com/rusB3xCnIk
Increasing financial education, transparency, trust and responsibility are big themes of the groups' findings so far #BoEOpenForum
3.11pm GMT
15:11
Some analysis of Draghi’s speech:
This speech is definitely a thinly veiled attack on Cameron's vision of a capital market union supervised by natl institutions #BoEOpenForum
Just read this whilst listening at #BoEOpenForum - Draghi makes the case for the EU if you want a single market https://t.co/M3yg2DezwV
3.03pm GMT
15:03
Superb comments by @MazzucatoM on how rent-seeking and VC short-termism undermine value-creating financial innovation at #BoEOpenForum
3.00pm GMT
15:00
Professor Mariana Mazzucato has been busy debunking hype in the world of financial innovation.
She told a panel at the Open Forum that many new wizzy ideas have actually helped companies to extract wealth, and give very little back society:
Financial innovation has increased outsized free riding/rent extraction effect in GDP not reduced it, says @MazzucatoM (my hero)
We need the right sort of innovation, not rent seeking innovation, says @MazzucatoM #boeopenforum