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| Version 1 | Version 2 |
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| Tony Blair: 'Gaddafi deal prevented Isis getting chemical weapons' | Tony Blair: 'Gaddafi deal prevented Isis getting chemical weapons' |
| (about 7 hours later) | |
| Tony Blair has defended his so-called “deal in the desert” with Muammar Gaddafi in 2004, saying his decision to bring the Libyan dictator in from the cold may have prevented chemical weapons falling into the hands of Islamic State. | Tony Blair has defended his so-called “deal in the desert” with Muammar Gaddafi in 2004, saying his decision to bring the Libyan dictator in from the cold may have prevented chemical weapons falling into the hands of Islamic State. |
| The former prime minister was speaking at the foreign affairs select committee where he was asked about his relations with Gaddafi as part of a wider inquiry into the British intervention in Libya in 2011. | The former prime minister was speaking at the foreign affairs select committee where he was asked about his relations with Gaddafi as part of a wider inquiry into the British intervention in Libya in 2011. |
| Related: Tony Blair bemoans 'tragedy' of Labour under Corbyn | Related: Tony Blair bemoans 'tragedy' of Labour under Corbyn |
| He defended his decision to strike a deal that ended Libyan isolation in return for a commitment by Gaddafi to get rid of his chemical weapons. | He defended his decision to strike a deal that ended Libyan isolation in return for a commitment by Gaddafi to get rid of his chemical weapons. |
| Blair said: “Otherwise, we would have had a situation where Libya was continuing to sponsor terrorism, was continuing to develop chemical and nuclear weapons and would have remained isolated in the international community. | Blair said: “Otherwise, we would have had a situation where Libya was continuing to sponsor terrorism, was continuing to develop chemical and nuclear weapons and would have remained isolated in the international community. |
| “I think it is important that we brought them in from the cold, as it were, and important also in today’s context because I think – particularly if we had still had the residue of that chemical weapons programme in Libya today, given the state of Libya today and given the presence of Isis there – it would have constituted a real risk, even.” | “I think it is important that we brought them in from the cold, as it were, and important also in today’s context because I think – particularly if we had still had the residue of that chemical weapons programme in Libya today, given the state of Libya today and given the presence of Isis there – it would have constituted a real risk, even.” |
| He added: “Ultimately the game was worth it, but that does not mean I approved of the way he ran his country. I had the hope – probably misplaced – that he would engage in political and economic reform.” | He added: “Ultimately the game was worth it, but that does not mean I approved of the way he ran his country. I had the hope – probably misplaced – that he would engage in political and economic reform.” |
| Blair also confirmed, as set out in published emails, that he tried to persuade Gaddafi to leave Libya in 2011 before western intervention in two or three phone calls, but said it would be wrong to describe these calls as an attempt to save Gaddafi. He said the purpose of the calls was to secure an agreed way out. | Blair also confirmed, as set out in published emails, that he tried to persuade Gaddafi to leave Libya in 2011 before western intervention in two or three phone calls, but said it would be wrong to describe these calls as an attempt to save Gaddafi. He said the purpose of the calls was to secure an agreed way out. |
| Blair said the calls were cleared with the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, and that David Cameron was informed. | Blair said the calls were cleared with the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, and that David Cameron was informed. |
| He said the point of the calls was to ensure that in the wake of the Arab spring and the uprising in Libya he left the country, but Gaddafi continually insisted he was only attacking extremists. Blair told the committee that the pace of events meant in the end intervention was necessary. | He said the point of the calls was to ensure that in the wake of the Arab spring and the uprising in Libya he left the country, but Gaddafi continually insisted he was only attacking extremists. Blair told the committee that the pace of events meant in the end intervention was necessary. |
| He said the calls were intended to see if Gaddafi would leave voluntarily and if there could be a different type of transition. | He said the calls were intended to see if Gaddafi would leave voluntarily and if there could be a different type of transition. |
| He said his actions were informed by his experience of Afghanistan and Iraq. “The problem is you can remove the dictatorship – Taliban or Saddam – but afterwards all those forces that have been suppressed come to the surface and then you get external actors who try to destabilise the situation. Because of that experience, I thought right from the outset of the Arab spring, if you could get a peaceful evolution that is better than a revolution because the revolution produces the chaos.” | He said his actions were informed by his experience of Afghanistan and Iraq. “The problem is you can remove the dictatorship – Taliban or Saddam – but afterwards all those forces that have been suppressed come to the surface and then you get external actors who try to destabilise the situation. Because of that experience, I thought right from the outset of the Arab spring, if you could get a peaceful evolution that is better than a revolution because the revolution produces the chaos.” |
| Blair denied that his decision to broker new relations with Libya meant he had backtracked on issues such as compensation over the fatal shooting of PC Yvonne Fletcher or for the families of the victims of the Lockerbie bombing. | |
| Pressed repeatedly on whether he thought Cameron planned sufficiently for the aftermath of Gaddafi’s departure, he said: “I am not here to criticise the prime minister.” | Pressed repeatedly on whether he thought Cameron planned sufficiently for the aftermath of Gaddafi’s departure, he said: “I am not here to criticise the prime minister.” |
| He added that he did not think the Gaddafi regime was “sustainable”, but accepted some in his government had thought a transition was possible through the dictator’s son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi. | He added that he did not think the Gaddafi regime was “sustainable”, but accepted some in his government had thought a transition was possible through the dictator’s son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi. |
| Related: Blair’s frail legacy shows why Labour must win arguments as well as votes | Tom Clark | Related: Blair’s frail legacy shows why Labour must win arguments as well as votes | Tom Clark |
| After Gaddafi’s fall, Libya collapsed into a state of warfare, with militias creating a failed state and the presence of Isis growing. The aftermath has been cited by opponents of western intervention as a case study in the dangers of removing strong leaders in the Middle East. | After Gaddafi’s fall, Libya collapsed into a state of warfare, with militias creating a failed state and the presence of Isis growing. The aftermath has been cited by opponents of western intervention as a case study in the dangers of removing strong leaders in the Middle East. |
| Blair also defended the deal with Gaddafi by saying: “The cooperation we got on terrorism was really important to us, and in fact invaluable to our security services. It was part of keeping our own country safe.” | Blair also defended the deal with Gaddafi by saying: “The cooperation we got on terrorism was really important to us, and in fact invaluable to our security services. It was part of keeping our own country safe.” |
| He added: “I only met him after a year’s worth of intense engagement. They first got in touch in March 2003, and after that were 10 different steps before I went to see him.” | He added: “I only met him after a year’s worth of intense engagement. They first got in touch in March 2003, and after that were 10 different steps before I went to see him.” |
| Blair explained Gaddafi’s thinking, saying: “He was someone who a lot of the time they have been so isolated they have not heard sensible arguments and their system does not allow them for people to come to talk to him.” | Blair explained Gaddafi’s thinking, saying: “He was someone who a lot of the time they have been so isolated they have not heard sensible arguments and their system does not allow them for people to come to talk to him.” |
| Asked if he was a rational actor, Blair replied he was “certainly unusual”, adding: “He said at any rate that he did have a very clear view that this Islamism that he had once played with was a profound threat and we did not understand how deep a threat it was.” | Asked if he was a rational actor, Blair replied he was “certainly unusual”, adding: “He said at any rate that he did have a very clear view that this Islamism that he had once played with was a profound threat and we did not understand how deep a threat it was.” |
| Blair rejected the claim that it was better to leave dictators in place in the Middle East: “I think what the Arab spring shows you is that however much we may want to have dealt with these people, the populations of these countries are not going to tolerate it. | Blair rejected the claim that it was better to leave dictators in place in the Middle East: “I think what the Arab spring shows you is that however much we may want to have dealt with these people, the populations of these countries are not going to tolerate it. |
| “In particular they are not going to tolerate a tiny group of people often unrepresentative of the majority in the country running the country.” | “In particular they are not going to tolerate a tiny group of people often unrepresentative of the majority in the country running the country.” |