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Trident: Getting agreed Labour position 'may be impossible' Trident: Getting agreed Labour position 'may be impossible'
(about 1 hour later)
Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham says it may be "impossible" for Labour to reach an agreed position on Trident.Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham says it may be "impossible" for Labour to reach an agreed position on Trident.
Mr Burnham, who backs renewal of the UK's nuclear weapons, said the review by shadow defence secretary Emily Thornberry would be "very difficult". Mr Burnham, who backs renewal of the UK's nuclear weapons, said a review by shadow defence secretary Emily Thornberry would be "very difficult".
Ms Thornberry and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn do not want to renew Trident. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn backs unilateral nuclear disarmament.
At a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday, Ms Thornberry faced a hostile reception, with some saying she compared Trident to Spitfire aircraft. At a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday, Ms Thornberry faced a hostile reception, with one accusing her afterwards of living in "la la land".
A senior Labour source insisted she had been trying to suggest that some military technology had to be replaced, like Spitfires, and others could be updated - like Tornados. Ex-shadow defence minister Kevan Jones said she had taken questions "but didn't answer any", adding that she had been "waffly and incoherent".
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is braced for what looks set to be a tense shadow cabinet meeting when it discusses the future of the UK's nuclear weapons system later. Some MPs told reporters outside the room that she had said Trident could soon be as obsolete as the Spitfire fighter aircraft was after the Second World War.
'Binary choice' Ms Thornberry said she had been trying to explain that Trident may be overtaken by technology such as underwater drones, which were being developed to track submarines.
Ms Thornberry gave Mr Corbyn's senior team of shadow ministers an outline of her thinking last week, but debate on the party's approach was delayed. "The idea of the Trident replacement is that it can hide in the sea. If technology is moving faster than that then it may well be that Trident may not be able to hide.
She told the Parliamentary Labour Party meeting on Monday she wanted to carry out the ongoing review of Labour policy on Trident in an "atmosphere of mutual trust and respect". "And if that's right, and if we are to bet everything on 'mutually assured destruction', we have to be assured that it will work - and if it cannot hide any more then that is a problem."
The Labour source told the Press Association that Ms Thornberry had also raised doubts about whether submarines were a safe way to carry the nuclear deterrent. She told BBC Radio 4's Today on Tuesday that "four, five or six people kicked-off" at Monday evening's meeting of Labour MPs but they did not necessarily represent the whole Parliamentary party.
"She was talking to some people about drones and it was apparent it was absolutely possible that large submarines could be tracked and attacked by drones," the source added. 'Difficult debate'
Interventions were "evenly" split between speakers who wanted to renew Trident, those who did not think it was a "binary choice", and those who opposed renewal, according to the source. She said she had wanted to challenge those who had said "it has to be Trident" or nothing.
Ex-shadow defence minister Kevan Jones said she had taken questions "but didn't answer any", adding: "waffly and incoherent." Asked why she did not just admit that she was against nuclear weapons, she said it was important to discuss all options.
"We need to have all the options on the table and we need to have a proper debate within the party," she told Today.
Labour peer Admiral Lord West, a former home office minister, telephoned into the Today programme during Ms Thornberry's interview to say that her argument about underwater drones was "nonsense".
She said the Chinese, Americans and Russians would not be spending billions on research if there was nothing in it.
What is Trident for?What is Trident for?
Since 1969, according to government documents, a British submarine carrying nuclear weapons has always been on patrol, gliding silently beneath the waves, somewhere in the world's oceans.Since 1969, according to government documents, a British submarine carrying nuclear weapons has always been on patrol, gliding silently beneath the waves, somewhere in the world's oceans.
The logic is to deter a nuclear attack on the UK because, even if the nation's conventional defence capabilities were destroyed, the silent submarine would still be able to launch a catastrophic retaliatory strike on the aggressor, a concept known as mutually assured destruction.The logic is to deter a nuclear attack on the UK because, even if the nation's conventional defence capabilities were destroyed, the silent submarine would still be able to launch a catastrophic retaliatory strike on the aggressor, a concept known as mutually assured destruction.
The submarines carry up to 8 Trident missiles; each can be fitted with a number of warheads.The submarines carry up to 8 Trident missiles; each can be fitted with a number of warheads.
Read more about the history of the UK's nuclear weapons systemRead more about the history of the UK's nuclear weapons system
Mr Burnham had earlier told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We always knew this was going to be a difficult debate for the party - there are two positions here that are difficult to reconcile, maybe impossible to reconcile, and the party's got to find some way of accommodating those positions and move forward and not let this issue take over everything."
Jeremy Corbyn is a longstanding opponent of nuclear weapons but some MPs and peers have threatened to resign if Labour reverses its decades-long support for British missiles.
Others are understood to be thinking of making clear their personal support for Trident renewal to voters at the next election, if the party puts disarmament in its manifesto.
Ms Thornberry's review is due to be published in the summer.
But MPs could be asked to vote on whether to proceed with building successor submarines to the existing Vanguard fleet before that.
Ms Thornberry accused the Conservatives of "playing political games" with a vote, which is seen by some as an attempt to expose Labour's divisions further.
Renewing the Trident fleet, which is due to become obsolete by the end of the next decade, is estimated by the government to cost £31bn, although opponents claim the final bill will be far higher than that.
Union leaders have warned that scrapping Trident could devastate communities reliant on the defence industry and Mr Corbyn said he recognised the need to retain "amazing skills and technology".Union leaders have warned that scrapping Trident could devastate communities reliant on the defence industry and Mr Corbyn said he recognised the need to retain "amazing skills and technology".
Mr Corbyn is at odds with many of his MPs over the future of the UK nuclear weapons system - which the government has estimated will cost £31bn to renew - and has commissioned a review led by shadow defence secretary Emily Thornberry to look at its future, likely to report in the summer.
The Labour leader has been a longstanding opponent of Trident but some MPs and peers have threatened to resign if Labour reverses its decades-long support for the nuclear deterrent.
Parliament is to hold a vote later this year on whether to proceed with building successor submarines to the existing Vanguard fleet, which is due to become obsolete by the end of the next decade.
Mr Burnham told BBC Radio 4's Today on Tuesday: "We always knew this was going to be a difficult debate for the party - there are two positions here that are difficult to reconcile, maybe impossible to reconcile, and the party's got to find some way of accommodating those positions and move forward and not let this issue take over everything."