This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/mar/06/democratic-debate-in-flint-and-maine-caucus-results-live
The article has changed 10 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 4 | Version 5 |
|---|---|
| Democratic debate: Sanders wins Maine, faces Clinton in Flint — live | Democratic debate: Sanders wins Maine, faces Clinton in Flint — live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 2.06am GMT | |
| 02:06 | |
| Don Lemon, a black CNN anchor, asks Clinton about criminal justice reform and the new generation of civil rights activists | |
| My husband said at the NAACP last summer that [the 1990s criminal justice bill] solved some problems but it created other problems, and I agree. And one of those other problems unfortunately was a move to expand the reasons why people would be incarcerated. | |
| Lemon: “Why should black people trust you this time to get people right?” | |
| Clinton: “Well, Senator Sanders supported it as well, are you going to ask him the question?” | |
| Clinton admits that some aspects of the bill were “a mistake”. She wants to “go after systemic racism that stalks the criminal justice system, ending private prisons, ending the incarceration of low-level offenders.” | |
| Sanders gets a version of the question: why did he support that bill? | |
| As we all know there are bills in Congress that have bad stuff. There are bills in Congress that have good stuff. Bad stuff and good stuff in the same bill. | |
| Sanders is arguing that he can compromise. | |
| In that bill there have been some good provisions. I have been a fierce fighter of domestic violence,” he gives as an example. “It was in that bill. The ban on assault weapons, what I’ve fought for my whole life, it was in that bill. … I tried to get the death penalty aspects in that bill out. Secretary Clinton and I disagree on that. I was then and I am now opposed to the death penalty.” | |
| The audience appreciates this line. | |
| 2.01am GMT | |
| 02:01 | |
| He defends his record by saying that he voted for provisions in those bills that he thought were good, such as a ban on armor piercing bullets. “You’re looking at a guy who comes from a rural state with low gun control. I have a D-minus rating from the NRA.” He says he lost an election because he said he was for a ban on “military style” assault weapons. “People who should not have guns should not be able to buy guns in America.” | |
| On the immunity law, he says he does not agree that gun-makers should necessarily be held legally liable. “You hold people, in terms of this liability thing. Where you hold manufacturers liability is if they understand that they’re selling guns to an area that is getting into the hands of criminals.” | |
| “But if they’re selling a product into the hands of a person who is buying legally, you’re ending gun manufacturing in America.” | |
| Clinton says the NRA stopped a bigger push to make guns safer, eg by making fingerprint or DNA locks. The immunity law was a huge push by the gun lobby, she argues – suggesting that the NRA has played some senators for fools. | |
| “If somebody who is crazy or a criminal or a horrible person goes around shooting people, the manufacturer of that gun should be liable,” Sanders says is how he interprets the argument. “If that is the case, then essentially your position is there should not be any guns in America, period.” | |
| Clinton: “That is what the NRA says my position is!” | |
| Sanders: “Can I finish?” | |
| Clinton turns back to the moderator and Sanders goes on: “You hold those people who used the guns accountable. You try to make guns as safe as possible, I would agree with that.” | |
| Clinton passionately insists that families like those of Sandy Hook victims have a right to hold gun manufacturers responsible with their collective suit, and the audience applauds her emotional appeal. Cooper insists they move on. | |
| 1.57am GMT | |
| 01:57 | |
| Gun control and gun violence. The father of a shooting victim asks the candidates what it is that they would do. | |
| “First of all I’m looking at your daughter and I’m very grateful she’s laughing and smiling and on the road to recovery,” Clinton begins. | |
| “I think we have to try everything that works to limit the numbers of people and the kinds of people who are given access to firearms,” she goes on. “The Brady Bill has kept more than 2m purchases from going forward.” | |
| But “not every killer will have the same profile. But the comprehensive background checks, closing the online loophole, closing the gunshow loophole, closing what’s called the Charleston loophole,” referring to the oversight by which a gunman acquired a gun last year before he killed nine people in Charleston, South Carolina. | |
| “I also believe so strongly, that giving immunity to gun makers and sellers was a terrible mistake, because it removed any accountability from the gun-makers and the sellers.” | |
| These are all thinly disguised barbs at Sanders, who has voted against background checks and in favor of giving immunity. He has since reversed his positions. | |
| “Let’s be honest, nobody as a magic solution to this problem,” Sanders says. “Any lunatic tomorrow” could commit a mass shooting. “This is a tough issue, but we have go to do everything we possibly can to minimize the possibilities of these mass killings.” | |
| 1.52am GMT | |
| 01:52 | |
| Elizabeth Wurtzel | |
| The subject of Hillary Clinton’s Goldman Sachs speeches have come up again. Elizabeth Wurtzel thinks its time for her to release them. | |
| Hillary Clinton should release the text of her Goldman Sachs speech. It is also absurd to say that money does not buy influence. Of course it does. | |
| If it did not, there would be no Super Pacs. In fact, Barack Obama has not been hard on people in finance, no doubt because these are his people. So Hillary Clinton’s claim that Wall Street money did not affect Obama is ridiculous. | |
| Our entire system is corrupted by it. That is perhaps Sanders’s only point, but it’s good. | |
| 1.45am GMT | |
| 01:45 | |
| He flips the “even-the-playing-field-abroad” argument and says that if Clinton wants to compare the US and other countries, most of the western world has universal healthcare. It’s the “one thing we should emulate”, he says. | |
| Clinton says sure, we’re getting there thanks to Barack Obama. | |
| “We have 90% coverage, we are lacking 10%. We’re going to stay on that path and we will get to universal coverage.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 1.50am GMT | |
| 1.43am GMT | |
| 01:43 | |
| Candidates clash on 'corporate welfare' bank | |
| Cooper points out that Sanders’s opposition to the bank puts him on the same side as Republican ultra-conservative Ted Cruz. | |
| “I don’t want to break the bad news,” Sanders says. “Democrats are not always right. Democrats have often supported corporate welfare. Democrats have often supported disastrous trade agreements. And on this issue I do not agree with corporate welfare.” | |
| He cites his work in Congress to make sure “20%” of the funds went to actual small businesses. | |
| Clinton says that you can see the results of the Import-Export bank, and says 240 companies in Michigan have been helped by it, for instance. “If we’re going to compete and win in the global economy, we can’t let every other country support their country and we take a hands-off approach.” | |
| Cooper fact-checks: Sanders is right, most of the money goes to Boeing and Caterpillar. “Do they really need this money?” | |
| Clinton says yes, those huge corporations do. She says compared to Airbus, Boeing needs the assistance. It’s all about playing the field with international corporations, Clinton says, making sure that American companies can compete abroad. | |
| “Isn’t it tragic,” Sanders waxes sarcastic, “oh absolutely, they need a handout from the American middle class.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 1.49am GMT | |
| 1.42am GMT | |
| 01:42 | |
| Back on trade policy. Sanders bashes Nafta and trade agreements that he says gutted Michigan’s factories of jobs by freeing up business to work overseas. | |
| “If we’re going to argue about the 1990s instead of talking about the future, which I much prefer,” Clinton says, let’s talk about the Import-Export bank, a government bank that Sanders opposes. | |
| “I think we’re in a race for exports,” Clinton says. “China, Germany, everybody else supports their businesses … I favor that, he’s opposed it. I want to do everything I can for us to compete and win in the global economy.” | |
| Sanders says that in Washington, the Import-Export bank is called “the bank of Boeing, because Boeing itself gets 40% of the money discharged by the Export-Import bank. 75% of the funds … goes to large, profitable corporations.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 1.46am GMT | |
| 1.36am GMT | |
| 01:36 | |
| Sanders raises Clinton’s hefty speaking fees from Wall Street banks, which made her hundreds of thousands of dollars. He urges her to release what must have been “fantastic” speeches, so that Americans can judge the transcripts. | |
| Clinton says she’ll gladly release them if everyone else does. Sanders says he’ll gladly comply. | |
| “Here it is!” Sanders shouts, waving his arms in an abracadabra shrug. “There ain’t nothing! I don’t give speeches on Wall Street!” | |
| Clinton contrasts her record with that of Barack Obama, who “took more money from Wall street in the 2008 campaign”. She says he had proven he could be tough on Wall Street by signing the Dodd-Frank Act, “the toughest regulation since the Great Depression.” | |
| She insists she has a record of being tough on Wall Street, citing her past support for tougher penalties and saying that she will use “tools” in Dodd-Frank to prosecute malfeasance by executives. | |
| Updated | |
| at 1.47am GMT | |
| 1.32am GMT | 1.32am GMT |
| 01:32 | 01:32 |
| Competing bailouts: Wall St v auto industry | |
| Clinton counters by saying Sanders did not support the stimulus to resurrect the American auto industry, which was part of the bailout money in the financial crisis in 2008. | Clinton counters by saying Sanders did not support the stimulus to resurrect the American auto industry, which was part of the bailout money in the financial crisis in 2008. |
| “Well I want to talk about the Wall Street bailout,” Sanders says. Clinton jumps in. | “Well I want to talk about the Wall Street bailout,” Sanders says. Clinton jumps in. |
| Sanders: “Excuse me, I’m talking.” | |
| Clinton: “If you’re going to talk, tell the whole story.” | Clinton: “If you’re going to talk, tell the whole story.” |
| Sanders: “Let me tell my story, you tell yours.” | |
| Clinton says she will. | |
| Sanders says that Clinton was “voting for corporate America. Did I vote against the Wall Street bailout?” | Sanders says that Clinton was “voting for corporate America. Did I vote against the Wall Street bailout?” |
| Billionaires came to Congress in 2008, he says, and said: “Oh please, we’ll be good boys, bail us out. | |
| “I said let the billionaires bail themselves out. And let’s help the middle class.” | “I said let the billionaires bail themselves out. And let’s help the middle class.” |
| Clinton says she wants “to set the record straight, I voted against the only multinational trade deal that came before me. I came out against the TPP. After it finished. I thought it was reasonable to know what it was about before I opposed it.” | |
| She says she supported the bailout because it had “the $350m that was needed to restructure the auto industry.” | She says she supported the bailout because it had “the $350m that was needed to restructure the auto industry.” |
| “You have to make hard choices when you’re in positions of responsibility … If everybody had voted the way he did, I believe the auto industry would have collapsed, taking four million jobs with it.” | “You have to make hard choices when you’re in positions of responsibility … If everybody had voted the way he did, I believe the auto industry would have collapsed, taking four million jobs with it.” |
| Sanders counters that he was for the auto money and the stimulus: “Of course that made sense. And I strongly supported president Obama’s position.” | Sanders counters that he was for the auto money and the stimulus: “Of course that made sense. And I strongly supported president Obama’s position.” |
| Is he a one-issue candidate? “I guess so. My one issue is trying to rebuild a disappearing middle class.” | Is he a one-issue candidate? “I guess so. My one issue is trying to rebuild a disappearing middle class.” |
| Clinton maintains that she made the right call: “I voted to save the auto industry, and I’m very glad I did.” | Clinton maintains that she made the right call: “I voted to save the auto industry, and I’m very glad I did.” |
| Updated | |
| at 1.50am GMT | |
| 1.26am GMT | 1.26am GMT |
| 01:26 | 01:26 |
| Cooper asks about the long-running jobs crisis in in Flint. Clinton says she wants to invest in small businesses, and growing jobs for women and in poor neighborhoods. Then she says she wants to make big companies who’ve left the area pay for their choices, citing Nabisco. | Cooper asks about the long-running jobs crisis in in Flint. Clinton says she wants to invest in small businesses, and growing jobs for women and in poor neighborhoods. Then she says she wants to make big companies who’ve left the area pay for their choices, citing Nabisco. |
| “I’m going to claw back those benefits. They’re going to have to pay back if they’re leaving a place that actually invested in them. I’m also going to go after companies like Johnson Controls in Wisconsin. They got part of the bailout … now they want to move some of their headquarters to Europe. They’re going to have to pay an exit fee.” | “I’m going to claw back those benefits. They’re going to have to pay back if they’re leaving a place that actually invested in them. I’m also going to go after companies like Johnson Controls in Wisconsin. They got part of the bailout … now they want to move some of their headquarters to Europe. They’re going to have to pay an exit fee.” |
| Sanders has a riposte: “I’m very glad, Anderson, that secretary Clinton discovered religion on this issue.” | Sanders has a riposte: “I’m very glad, Anderson, that secretary Clinton discovered religion on this issue.” |
| He says she supported nearly every one of the “disastrous trade agreements”, such as Nafta (“tens of thousands of jobs”), trade relations with China, etc. He says he was | He says she supported nearly every one of the “disastrous trade agreements”, such as Nafta (“tens of thousands of jobs”), trade relations with China, etc. He says he was |
| “You didn’t need a PhD in economics – American workers should not be forced to compete with people in Mexico making 25c an hour.” | “You didn’t need a PhD in economics – American workers should not be forced to compete with people in Mexico making 25c an hour.” |
| 1.23am GMT | 1.23am GMT |
| 01:23 | 01:23 |
| Why shouldn’t the people of Flint believe you aren’t just using this crisis to score political points, a Flint resident asks Clinton. | Why shouldn’t the people of Flint believe you aren’t just using this crisis to score political points, a Flint resident asks Clinton. |
| The crowd applauds his question. | The crowd applauds his question. |
| Clinton cites her long career of activism, from Arkansas to the White House to the Senate for New York. “This problem is one that is particularly outrageous and painful at the same time,” she says, going on to say that she’s connected with the parents and children whose suffering she’s seen with every visit to the city. | Clinton cites her long career of activism, from Arkansas to the White House to the Senate for New York. “This problem is one that is particularly outrageous and painful at the same time,” she says, going on to say that she’s connected with the parents and children whose suffering she’s seen with every visit to the city. |
| “I’m just determined to do whatever I can, so I have … you’ve got to get the federal money, you’ve got to get the state money, and I will be with Flint all the way through this crisis, in whatever capacity I am.” | “I’m just determined to do whatever I can, so I have … you’ve got to get the federal money, you’ve got to get the state money, and I will be with Flint all the way through this crisis, in whatever capacity I am.” |
| Sanders gets the same question – the resident notes that the senator first arrived in Flint for the first time in the last couple weeks before the state’s primary. | Sanders gets the same question – the resident notes that the senator first arrived in Flint for the first time in the last couple weeks before the state’s primary. |
| “I met very quietly in Detroit with parents and others who were affected by this disaster, and the other thing I did was hold a town meeting,” he says, for hundreds of people to him what they wanted. | “I met very quietly in Detroit with parents and others who were affected by this disaster, and the other thing I did was hold a town meeting,” he says, for hundreds of people to him what they wanted. |
| “At some point the TV cameras and CNN is going to disappear – applause – and then people are going to be left struggling.” | “At some point the TV cameras and CNN is going to disappear – applause – and then people are going to be left struggling.” |
| “All I can say is if you check my record going back a long time, I have stood with those who are hurting. I have stood with those who have no money. And I have stood up to nearly every powerful interest in the United States of America.” | “All I can say is if you check my record going back a long time, I have stood with those who are hurting. I have stood with those who have no money. And I have stood up to nearly every powerful interest in the United States of America.” |
| Meanwhile, the governor has responded to the calls for his resignation from the Democratic debate. | Meanwhile, the governor has responded to the calls for his resignation from the Democratic debate. |
| I'm taking responsibility as our value system says we should. My track record is getting things done, and I want to get this done. #FlintFWD | I'm taking responsibility as our value system says we should. My track record is getting things done, and I want to get this done. #FlintFWD |
| 1.18am GMT | 1.18am GMT |
| 01:18 | 01:18 |
| Back in the debate, where the candidates have yet to learn that Sanders has won Maine – they’re still talking about what exactly they would do about Flint, and whom would pay for the disaster. | Back in the debate, where the candidates have yet to learn that Sanders has won Maine – they’re still talking about what exactly they would do about Flint, and whom would pay for the disaster. |
| “There has to be absolute accountability and I will support” whatever a investigation determines, Clinton says. | “There has to be absolute accountability and I will support” whatever a investigation determines, Clinton says. |
| Senator Sanders, should people go to jail? | Senator Sanders, should people go to jail? |
| Sanders: “I can’t sit up here and make a judgment about whether somebody committed a criminal act.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 1.48am GMT | |
| 1.14am GMT | 1.14am GMT |
| 01:14 | 01:14 |
| Sanders wins Maine | Sanders wins Maine |
| The Vermont senator has won the Maine caucuses, per the Associated Press’ call of the race. | The Vermont senator has won the Maine caucuses, per the Associated Press’ call of the race. |
| BREAKING: Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic presidential caucuses in Maine. @AP race call at 8 p.m. EST. #Election2016 #APracecall | BREAKING: Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic presidential caucuses in Maine. @AP race call at 8 p.m. EST. #Election2016 #APracecall |
| Related: Bernie Sanders wins Maine caucuses as Marco Rubio takes Puerto Rico | Related: Bernie Sanders wins Maine caucuses as Marco Rubio takes Puerto Rico |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 1.15am GMT | at 1.15am GMT |
| 1.14am GMT | 1.14am GMT |
| 01:14 | 01:14 |
| Cooper points out that government, which Sanders wants to grow, is what mismanaged Flint’s water. Sanders says who else is going to fix the situation? | |
| “I suppose they could trust corporations that have destroyed Flint by a disastrous trade policy … We could trust them, oh sure. Or maybe, Anderson, tell you what maybe we should take Wall Street come in and run the city of Flint,” he says. | “I suppose they could trust corporations that have destroyed Flint by a disastrous trade policy … We could trust them, oh sure. Or maybe, Anderson, tell you what maybe we should take Wall Street come in and run the city of Flint,” he says. |
| “No, we live in a democracy, and I’ll be the last person to deny the government is failing in many respects. But I would trust the people to choose a government that works for them.” | “No, we live in a democracy, and I’ll be the last person to deny the government is failing in many respects. But I would trust the people to choose a government that works for them.” |
| Clinton’s turn: she says she would launch an investigation into what happened in the state EPA offices where officials failed to act or warn others about the toxic water. | Clinton’s turn: she says she would launch an investigation into what happened in the state EPA offices where officials failed to act or warn others about the toxic water. |
| “Yes, people should be fired. How far up it went, I don’t know. … But they should be relieved.” | “Yes, people should be fired. How far up it went, I don’t know. … But they should be relieved.” |
| She points out that many cities around the US have skewed water reports, and also have dangerous levels of toxins. | She points out that many cities around the US have skewed water reports, and also have dangerous levels of toxins. |
| Sanders’s turn: “President Sanders would fire anybody who knew what was happening and did not act according. A president Sanders would make the point that how does it happen in the wealthiest country in the history of the world.” | |
| Related: Water utilities serving American cities use tests that downplay contamination | Related: Water utilities serving American cities use tests that downplay contamination |
| Updated | |
| at 1.49am GMT | |
| 1.09am GMT | 1.09am GMT |
| 01:09 | 01:09 |
| Sanders’s turn on the question of specifics. “What is going on is a disgrace beyond belief. As president of the United States this is what I would do: | |
| “If local government does not have the resources, if state government … refuses to act,” he says, “federal government comes in, federal government acts. | |
| “Water rates have soared in Flint. You are paying three times more for poison water than I’m paying in Burlington, Vermont for clean water. First thing you do is say people are not paying a water bill for poison water. And that is retroactive.” | “Water rates have soared in Flint. You are paying three times more for poison water than I’m paying in Burlington, Vermont for clean water. First thing you do is say people are not paying a water bill for poison water. And that is retroactive.” |
| The he says the CDC has to intervene to examine every child and adult for degrees of lead poisoning. Finally he repeats the push for reconstructing infrastructure. | The he says the CDC has to intervene to examine every child and adult for degrees of lead poisoning. Finally he repeats the push for reconstructing infrastructure. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 1.49am GMT | |
| 1.07am GMT | 1.07am GMT |
| 01:07 | 01:07 |
| A Flint resident asks Clinton what would she actually do. | A Flint resident asks Clinton what would she actually do. |
| “All the repair work that is being done, and mayor Weaver announced a program that we support to begin to help train people to do some of this work,” Clinton says. | “All the repair work that is being done, and mayor Weaver announced a program that we support to begin to help train people to do some of this work,” Clinton says. |
| “Everything that is done has to be triple checked to regain your trust and to hold those responsible … You bathe in it, you drink it, you wash food.” | “Everything that is done has to be triple checked to regain your trust and to hold those responsible … You bathe in it, you drink it, you wash food.” |
| “I will make sure as president that I double and triple check … I will work with elected officials that I trust, like your mayor” to make sure that basic necessities are available and safe. | “I will make sure as president that I double and triple check … I will work with elected officials that I trust, like your mayor” to make sure that basic necessities are available and safe. |
| Cooper presses her on what would she do as president, right now, if she could, and Clinton says she supports Barack Obama’s emergency support for the city. She adds that she supports the mayor’s program to get Flint residents themselves trained to fix the pipes and provide emergency aid immediately. | Cooper presses her on what would she do as president, right now, if she could, and Clinton says she supports Barack Obama’s emergency support for the city. She adds that she supports the mayor’s program to get Flint residents themselves trained to fix the pipes and provide emergency aid immediately. |