This article is from the source 'bbc' and was first published or seen on . It will not be checked again for changes.

You can find the current article at its original source at http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk/7323740.stm

The article has changed 9 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.

Version 6 Version 7
Smith defends terror limit plans Terror laws face Commons battle
(about 1 hour later)
The home secretary has tried to calm MPs' fears over plans to let terror suspects be held longer without charge. The government has been warned to expect tough opposition to its plans to extend the time limit on holding terror suspects without charge.
In the Counter-Terrorism Bill debate Jacqui Smith said the law "cannot remain frozen" while the threat grows. Its Counter Terrorism Bill passed its first hurdle in the Commons but Lib Dems, Tories and some Labour MPs say they will fight parts of it later on.
She said she was proposing a "reserve power" that was a "wholly different model" to the planned 90-day limit that was defeated in the Commons in 2005. Home Secretary Jacqui Smith insisted she wanted a "reserve power" not a permanent extension from 28 to 42 days.
Some Labour backbenchers are set to rebel. Tory and Lib Dem MPs have said they will oppose it in later stages. But Chris Huhne said the Lib Dems would fight the proposal "tooth and nail".
Opening the second reading debate earlier, Ms Smith said the terrorist threat was of an "unprecedented scale" and the sheer weight and amount of material that had to be gone through - often of an international nature - presented a new challenge to investigators. The Bill was given an unopposed second reading earlier and will go to committee stage where MPs will scrutinise the detail.
Opening the debate Ms Smith said the proposal on pre-charge detention was a "wholly different model" to the planned 90-day limit that was defeated in the Commons in 2005.
She said the terrorist threat was of an "unprecedented scale" and the sheer weight and amount of material that had to be gone through - often of an international nature - presented a new challenge to investigators.
'Clear need''Clear need'
"As the threat from terrorism evolves, so our laws must adapt to remain effective," she said."As the threat from terrorism evolves, so our laws must adapt to remain effective," she said.
She said the government had moved a "considerable way" from the original option - in 2005 Tony Blair suffered his first Commons defeat as prime minister over plans to extend the limit to 90 days. She said the government had moved a "considerable way" from the original 90-days option.
There is no proposal for a blanket extension to 42 days - that is a myth and that is wrong Gordon BrownThere is no proposal for a blanket extension to 42 days - that is a myth and that is wrong Gordon Brown
Ms Smith said: "We are not now proposing a permanent, automatic or immediate extension to pre-charge detention beyond the current maximum limit of 28 days.Ms Smith said: "We are not now proposing a permanent, automatic or immediate extension to pre-charge detention beyond the current maximum limit of 28 days.
"We are proposing a reserve power - not to be used lightly - that would mean that a higher limit could only become available if there was a clear and exceptional operational need, supported by the police and the CPS, and approved by the home secretary.""We are proposing a reserve power - not to be used lightly - that would mean that a higher limit could only become available if there was a clear and exceptional operational need, supported by the police and the CPS, and approved by the home secretary."
She said it would be subject to Parliamentary approval within 30 days and whether someone was held would be a decision for a senior judge and she pledged to continue a "consensus building approach" as the Bill continues its Parliamentary progress. She said it would be subject to Parliamentary approval within 30 days, a senior judge would decide whether someone was held - and she pledged to continue a "consensus building approach" as the Bill continues its Parliamentary progress.
'No evidence''No evidence'
Earlier Gordon Brown said: "There is no proposal for a blanket extension to 42 days. That is a myth and that is wrong."
But some Labour backbenchers remain unconvinced by the arguments - and are expected to vote against the Counter-Terrorism Bill during the later stages of its passage through Parliament.But some Labour backbenchers remain unconvinced by the arguments - and are expected to vote against the Counter-Terrorism Bill during the later stages of its passage through Parliament.
We on these benches will fight tooth and nail against these provisions which we believe to prove to be a serious erosion of hard won freedoms Chris HuhneLiberal Democrats We on these benches will fight tooth and nail against these provisions which we believe to prove to be a serious erosion of hard-won freedoms Chris HuhneLiberal Democrats
For the Conservatives, David Davis told MPs: "There is not one shred of evidence for extension beyond 28 days - full stop." Labour's Bob Marshall-Andrews, a QC, said the government had produced "simply no evidence whatsoever" to back the Bill.
For the Conservatives, David Davis also told MPs: "There is not one shred of evidence for extension beyond 28 days - full stop."
While he said ministers conjured up "nightmare scenarios" - but there was already a solution, to use the Civil Contingencies Act.While he said ministers conjured up "nightmare scenarios" - but there was already a solution, to use the Civil Contingencies Act.
And he said while the Conservatives would support parts of the Bill - such as allowing post-charge questioning - extending the pre-charge detention period up to 42 days could act as a "recruiting sergeant" for terrorists.And he said while the Conservatives would support parts of the Bill - such as allowing post-charge questioning - extending the pre-charge detention period up to 42 days could act as a "recruiting sergeant" for terrorists.
Police supportPolice support
He added that Australian citizens could be held for up to 12 days without charge, US citizens for two and if Britain was to go to 42, it would be in the same league as countries like Zimbabwe and China.
For the Liberal Democrats, Chris Huhne said aspects of the Bill were deeply intrusive to "hard won civil liberties".For the Liberal Democrats, Chris Huhne said aspects of the Bill were deeply intrusive to "hard won civil liberties".
He praised proposals such as the limited use of intercept evidence but attacked the proposal to allow pre-charge detention to be extended.He praised proposals such as the limited use of intercept evidence but attacked the proposal to allow pre-charge detention to be extended.
"We on these benches will fight tooth and nail against these provisions which we believe to prove to be a serious erosion of hard won freedoms, just as crucially it will prove to be counter productive," he said. "We on these benches will fight tooth and nail against these provisions which we believe to prove to be a serious erosion of hard-won freedoms, just as crucially it will prove to be counter productive," he said.
Earlier Labour MP David Winnick predicted a sizeable rebellion on the issue of pre-charge detention, arguing there was no compelling evidence the extension was needed. But Labour former minister Frank Field criticised MPs who wanted to "remain passive and see what the terrorists inflict on us and then react accordingly".
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "It doesn't give us any joy to try to get the government defeated - far from it - but they're absolutely wrong on this issue. Earlier Prime Minister Gordon Brown said: "There is no proposal for a blanket extension to 42 days. That is a myth and that is wrong."
Senior police officers, including Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, have continued to call for an extension beyond 28 days. The proposals are supported by some senior police officers - but could face a court challenge from the Equality and Human Rights Commission if passed.
But Lord Dear - formerly Geoffrey Dear, the chief constable of West Midlands Police - told the BBC earlier: "We don't need an extension. The ex-attorney general has said so, many senior police officers I know and speak to privately say so."
The plans to extend the limit could also face an Equality and Human Rights Commission court challenge.