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| Version 4 | Version 5 |
|---|---|
| Guardian EU referendum debate: the verdict Guardian EU referendum debate: the verdict | |
| (about 4 hours later) | |
| Key points | Key points |
| Anyone who thought the EU referendum campaign was going to be dull will have to revise their thinking after that event. It was lively and raucous, mostly in a good way. By comparison, the general election debates were rather turgid. | Anyone who thought the EU referendum campaign was going to be dull will have to revise their thinking after that event. It was lively and raucous, mostly in a good way. By comparison, the general election debates were rather turgid. |
| Project Fear was out in force – on both sides. On the Leave side, Ukip leader Nigel Farage – unsurprisingly – labelled the EU a “failing political project” and warned that remaining in the union would mean Turkey joining at some point in the future. The Tory MP Andrea Leadsom claimed the EU was imposing laws on the UK that were out of Britain’s control. | Project Fear was out in force – on both sides. On the Leave side, Ukip leader Nigel Farage – unsurprisingly – labelled the EU a “failing political project” and warned that remaining in the union would mean Turkey joining at some point in the future. The Tory MP Andrea Leadsom claimed the EU was imposing laws on the UK that were out of Britain’s control. |
| Remain campaigner Nick Clegg of the Liberal Democrats said Brexit would lead to “considerably worse terms of trade” and Labour’s Alan Johnson said the French would tear up the deal that allows border checks at Calais if Britain left the EU. | Remain campaigner Nick Clegg of the Liberal Democrats said Brexit would lead to “considerably worse terms of trade” and Labour’s Alan Johnson said the French would tear up the deal that allows border checks at Calais if Britain left the EU. |
| Snap verdict - who won? | Snap verdict - who won? |
| Judging by the reception in the auditorium, no one. The people who came to listen seemed for the most part engaged and committed but, at no point, did one get a sense of minds being changed. At the end, when the Guardian’s political editor and chair of the event, Anushka Asthana, asked if anyone had been persuaded to rethink by what they had heard, hardly any hands went up. | Judging by the reception in the auditorium, no one. The people who came to listen seemed for the most part engaged and committed but, at no point, did one get a sense of minds being changed. At the end, when the Guardian’s political editor and chair of the event, Anushka Asthana, asked if anyone had been persuaded to rethink by what they had heard, hardly any hands went up. |
| Yet it is probably the Remain camp that has more to worry about from Thursday night at the London Palladium. Over the past three weeks, in speeches and interviews, David Cameron has made a calm and coherent case for remaining in the EU, while his opponents have fought for Brexit with turbo-charged press backing but a lot less consistency and discipline. Cameron has been winning the argument. | Yet it is probably the Remain camp that has more to worry about from Thursday night at the London Palladium. Over the past three weeks, in speeches and interviews, David Cameron has made a calm and coherent case for remaining in the EU, while his opponents have fought for Brexit with turbo-charged press backing but a lot less consistency and discipline. Cameron has been winning the argument. |
| Farage started with a striking soundbite, about Britain being more than just “a star on somebody else’s flag” and then, time and again, he was able to press emotive buttons, for example on Turkey, on Labour and the working class, on Eurocrats and even on Scotland (where he was withering about the prospect of it ever voting for independence with the oil price so low). He even managed to brush aside the perfectly sound argument about a Norway-style trade deal not being in the UK’s interest with a rather good riff about the delights of Scandinavia. If anyone on the platform was going to sway undecided voters, it was probably him. | Farage started with a striking soundbite, about Britain being more than just “a star on somebody else’s flag” and then, time and again, he was able to press emotive buttons, for example on Turkey, on Labour and the working class, on Eurocrats and even on Scotland (where he was withering about the prospect of it ever voting for independence with the oil price so low). He even managed to brush aside the perfectly sound argument about a Norway-style trade deal not being in the UK’s interest with a rather good riff about the delights of Scandinavia. If anyone on the platform was going to sway undecided voters, it was probably him. |
| In many ways it did turn out to be a Farage/Clegg rematch because the most effective opposition to Farage came from the former deputy prime minister. Clegg was sharp and punchy, and he had a terrific moment when he mocked Farage for what he had said about Barack Obama and Russia, and for his faith in conspiracy theories. | In many ways it did turn out to be a Farage/Clegg rematch because the most effective opposition to Farage came from the former deputy prime minister. Clegg was sharp and punchy, and he had a terrific moment when he mocked Farage for what he had said about Barack Obama and Russia, and for his faith in conspiracy theories. |
| Johnson delivered at least one excellent put-down to Farage, too, when he ridiculed the idea that Ukip wanted to exclude EU migrants so that they could let in more Indians. But Clegg and Johnson were in reactive mode more often than not; Farage was setting the agenda. | Johnson delivered at least one excellent put-down to Farage, too, when he ridiculed the idea that Ukip wanted to exclude EU migrants so that they could let in more Indians. But Clegg and Johnson were in reactive mode more often than not; Farage was setting the agenda. |
| Best lines | Best lines |
| Farage says Norway is rich, happy and successful - and worth following. | Farage says Norway is rich, happy and successful - and worth following. |
| How dreadful would be it be be like Norway, he asks. Rich and happy and successful? | How dreadful would be it be be like Norway, he asks. Rich and happy and successful? |
| Clegg denied the Sun’s story that the Queen backed Brexit at an event he attended five years ago, saying it was “ludicrous rubbish”. | Clegg denied the Sun’s story that the Queen backed Brexit at an event he attended five years ago, saying it was “ludicrous rubbish”. |
| A-grade, 24-carat bilge. | A-grade, 24-carat bilge. |
| Farage calls Obama (who has suggested he wants the UK to remain in the EU) the “most anti-British president America has ever had”. | Farage calls Obama (who has suggested he wants the UK to remain in the EU) the “most anti-British president America has ever had”. |
| Leadsom then dismisses the view of “a couple” of Americans. | Leadsom then dismisses the view of “a couple” of Americans. |
| Clegg counters that by reminding her that she is talking about President Obama. He is not just “Joe Bloggs from Cleveland” and is worth hearing out. That gets the biggest cheer of the night. | Clegg counters that by reminding her that she is talking about President Obama. He is not just “Joe Bloggs from Cleveland” and is worth hearing out. That gets the biggest cheer of the night. |
| Johnson says Farage is pessimistic about everything, until he talks about leaving the EU, when he turns into “Anne of Green Gables”. Under the EU, countries in the east have gone from “oligarchy to democracy”. | Johnson says Farage is pessimistic about everything, until he talks about leaving the EU, when he turns into “Anne of Green Gables”. Under the EU, countries in the east have gone from “oligarchy to democracy”. |
| Leadsom says no one has a “crystal ball” and can predict what will happen under Brexit. But she insists that it is “perfectly possible to negotiate terms of exit” with time. | Leadsom says no one has a “crystal ball” and can predict what will happen under Brexit. But she insists that it is “perfectly possible to negotiate terms of exit” with time. |
| Snap Twitter verdict | Snap Twitter verdict |
| Nick Clegg seemed to attract the most attention on Twitter. Seems people have missed him. | Nick Clegg seemed to attract the most attention on Twitter. Seems people have missed him. |
| Loving punchy Nick Clegg being back on the scene #Confession #GuardianLive | Loving punchy Nick Clegg being back on the scene #Confession #GuardianLive |