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| Flagging cabs in a wheelchair | Flagging cabs in a wheelchair |
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| By Geoff Adams-Spink Age & disability correspondent, BBC News | By Geoff Adams-Spink Age & disability correspondent, BBC News |
| Think you've got problems finding a cab? Try it in a wheelchair. | Think you've got problems finding a cab? Try it in a wheelchair. |
| Almost every time Baroness Nicky Chapman of Leeds comes to London to sit in the House of Lords, she is refused a ride in a black cab because she uses a wheelchair. | Almost every time Baroness Nicky Chapman of Leeds comes to London to sit in the House of Lords, she is refused a ride in a black cab because she uses a wheelchair. |
| Last summer, after being refused by nine successive drivers - the last of whom she says became abusive - she complained to taxi watchdog the Public Carriage Office and found that the relevant disabled access laws have yet to be implemented by the Department for Transport. Now the crossbencher plans a private member's bill to give wheelchair users greater access to licensed taxis. FIND OUT MORE... On BBC Radio 4's You and Yours on Monday, 14 April at 1200 BST | Last summer, after being refused by nine successive drivers - the last of whom she says became abusive - she complained to taxi watchdog the Public Carriage Office and found that the relevant disabled access laws have yet to be implemented by the Department for Transport. Now the crossbencher plans a private member's bill to give wheelchair users greater access to licensed taxis. FIND OUT MORE... On BBC Radio 4's You and Yours on Monday, 14 April at 1200 BST |
| With accessibility a hot issue in transport - it was this that finally did for London's iconic Routemaster buses - I spend an afternoon trying to hail cabs with wheelchair user Ruth Bashall, a disability rights campaigner and one-time trainer of London taxi drivers. | With accessibility a hot issue in transport - it was this that finally did for London's iconic Routemaster buses - I spend an afternoon trying to hail cabs with wheelchair user Ruth Bashall, a disability rights campaigner and one-time trainer of London taxi drivers. |
| We meet at Charing Cross Station. As Ms Bashall uses a large electric wheelchair, we're on the look-out for one of the newer, wider TX cabs. Luckily, there's one right at the front of the station's taxi rank. | We meet at Charing Cross Station. As Ms Bashall uses a large electric wheelchair, we're on the look-out for one of the newer, wider TX cabs. Luckily, there's one right at the front of the station's taxi rank. |
| The driver cannot be more helpful, moving his car to a better loading position, freeing up a jammed ramp and fitting an extension to give a shallower gradient for Ruth's wheelchair. | The driver cannot be more helpful, moving his car to a better loading position, freeing up a jammed ramp and fitting an extension to give a shallower gradient for Ruth's wheelchair. |
| And he's typically robust when asked why some fellow drivers seem reluctant to pick up passengers in wheelchairs. | And he's typically robust when asked why some fellow drivers seem reluctant to pick up passengers in wheelchairs. |
| "Taxi drivers are all self-employed - they get no grants whatsoever from the government or from the local authority [to modify their cabs]. They expect us to act like a social service, and we're not - we're just scraping a living in very stressful situations."Ruth Bashall on Oxford St | "Taxi drivers are all self-employed - they get no grants whatsoever from the government or from the local authority [to modify their cabs]. They expect us to act like a social service, and we're not - we're just scraping a living in very stressful situations."Ruth Bashall on Oxford St |
| He drops us on bustling Oxford Street, where Ruth Bashall and I try to hail a second cab. | He drops us on bustling Oxford Street, where Ruth Bashall and I try to hail a second cab. |
| Two drivers with their hire light on sail past, and another suggests that we try a rank on another street. But just around the corner, Ms Bashall sticks her hand up and a driver named William stops. | Two drivers with their hire light on sail past, and another suggests that we try a rank on another street. But just around the corner, Ms Bashall sticks her hand up and a driver named William stops. |
| Although not part of a radio circuit, William says he picks up wheelchair passengers about once a week. He thinks other cabbies have no excuse. "It takes a little bit longer than normal - if it's just one a week you can put yourself out," he says. | Although not part of a radio circuit, William says he picks up wheelchair passengers about once a week. He thinks other cabbies have no excuse. "It takes a little bit longer than normal - if it's just one a week you can put yourself out," he says. |
| Ms Bashall thinks there is what she calls "an irreductable core" of drivers who simply refuse to change. | Ms Bashall thinks there is what she calls "an irreductable core" of drivers who simply refuse to change. |
| In London, drivers who are part of a radio circuit - a telephone booking service for cabs - are far more likely to encounter disabled passengers than those who are hailed on the street. | In London, drivers who are part of a radio circuit - a telephone booking service for cabs - are far more likely to encounter disabled passengers than those who are hailed on the street. |
| By law | By law |
| Computer Cab plc books taxis for disabled people who are part of the subsidised Taxicard scheme. The company provides specific training for drivers so that they know how to operate accessibility equipment that they are required by law to carry, says head of operations, Malcolm Paice.New cabs have built-in ramps | Computer Cab plc books taxis for disabled people who are part of the subsidised Taxicard scheme. The company provides specific training for drivers so that they know how to operate accessibility equipment that they are required by law to carry, says head of operations, Malcolm Paice.New cabs have built-in ramps |
| "The way that we sell the training to the drivers is to say, 'you've gone out and invested in one of the most accessible vehicles in London - let us show you how to make the most of that'." | "The way that we sell the training to the drivers is to say, 'you've gone out and invested in one of the most accessible vehicles in London - let us show you how to make the most of that'." |
| Drivers unwilling to take wheelchair users or with broken equipment get no further work from Computer Cab until the situation is rectified, says Mr Paice. | Drivers unwilling to take wheelchair users or with broken equipment get no further work from Computer Cab until the situation is rectified, says Mr Paice. |
| But there is a more basic, perhaps less palatable reason why drivers won't stop for disabled people, says Bob Oddy, general secretary of the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association. | But there is a more basic, perhaps less palatable reason why drivers won't stop for disabled people, says Bob Oddy, general secretary of the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association. |
| "When you're confronted with particularly a severely disabled person, when you're not expecting it and you're not used to it, it can be awkward and embarrassing. I'm not saying they should do so, but that's the reality." | "When you're confronted with particularly a severely disabled person, when you're not expecting it and you're not used to it, it can be awkward and embarrassing. I'm not saying they should do so, but that's the reality." |
| Mr Oddy says that drivers who are not part of a radio circuit seldom come across wheelchair users - perhaps once in two years on average. | Mr Oddy says that drivers who are not part of a radio circuit seldom come across wheelchair users - perhaps once in two years on average. |
| Easy access | Easy access |
| The Public Carriage Office says it is in discussion with the Department for Transport about bringing in the regulations contained in the 1995 Disability Discrimination Act. | The Public Carriage Office says it is in discussion with the Department for Transport about bringing in the regulations contained in the 1995 Disability Discrimination Act. |
| People are sat around tables in committees trying to design the perfect taxi to cover every impairment, and you can't Baroness Chapman | People are sat around tables in committees trying to design the perfect taxi to cover every impairment, and you can't Baroness Chapman |
| Julian Fiorentini, the mobility programme manager, says the PCO only realised that these had yet to be enacted when it tried to help Baroness Chapman prosecute the drivers who refused to take her fare. | Julian Fiorentini, the mobility programme manager, says the PCO only realised that these had yet to be enacted when it tried to help Baroness Chapman prosecute the drivers who refused to take her fare. |
| But Mr Fiorentini says that the situation is complicated and that amendments to the original legislation have to be made before the rules can be brought into force. | But Mr Fiorentini says that the situation is complicated and that amendments to the original legislation have to be made before the rules can be brought into force. |
| Whether it is measures to reduce discrimination or design standards for disabled access to taxis, campaigners think that the government is sitting on its hands. | Whether it is measures to reduce discrimination or design standards for disabled access to taxis, campaigners think that the government is sitting on its hands. |
| "There are some 380 local authorities and virtually none of them have identical policies," says Andrew Overton, whose family has been manufacturing and selling taxis since 1906. | "There are some 380 local authorities and virtually none of them have identical policies," says Andrew Overton, whose family has been manufacturing and selling taxis since 1906. |
| "Local authorities are looking for guidance from government about what they require in a way of standards for an accessible taxi." | "Local authorities are looking for guidance from government about what they require in a way of standards for an accessible taxi." |
| He says that the industry was given draft regulations to consider 10 years ago but that nothing has happened since. | He says that the industry was given draft regulations to consider 10 years ago but that nothing has happened since. |
| But junior transport minister, Rosie Winterton, says the original focus on the needs of wheelchair users is too narrow. Since the government said in 2003 that it would look at making all taxis wheelchair accessible, the Department for Transport has received representations from other groups saying their needs have not been taken into account. | But junior transport minister, Rosie Winterton, says the original focus on the needs of wheelchair users is too narrow. Since the government said in 2003 that it would look at making all taxis wheelchair accessible, the Department for Transport has received representations from other groups saying their needs have not been taken into account. |
| "There are different requirements for people with different disabilities, so simply making every taxi wheelchair accessible is not the answer," says Ms Winterton. | "There are different requirements for people with different disabilities, so simply making every taxi wheelchair accessible is not the answer," says Ms Winterton. |
| But Baroness Chapman thinks that the time for talking is long past. | But Baroness Chapman thinks that the time for talking is long past. |
| "Unless you actually experience the discrimination, it's easy to get waylaid. People are sat around tables in committees trying to design the perfect taxi to cover every impairment, and you can't - people with the same impairments have different needs." | "Unless you actually experience the discrimination, it's easy to get waylaid. People are sat around tables in committees trying to design the perfect taxi to cover every impairment, and you can't - people with the same impairments have different needs." |
| Below is a selection of your comments: | |
| This is a problem me and my friends have had over and again. Not so much in Edinburgh but definitely in London. We once had to go so far as to hide my friend (a wheelchair user) behind a bush to finally get a taxi to stop. He then went crazy when we wheeled her out from behind. A bit underhand but after half an hour of being ignored in favour of the person down the road enough was enough.Kevin Morris, Edinburgh | This is a problem me and my friends have had over and again. Not so much in Edinburgh but definitely in London. We once had to go so far as to hide my friend (a wheelchair user) behind a bush to finally get a taxi to stop. He then went crazy when we wheeled her out from behind. A bit underhand but after half an hour of being ignored in favour of the person down the road enough was enough.Kevin Morris, Edinburgh |
| I am a taxi driver and own my cab, which is wheelchair accessible and marked as such. In over three years of working my local taxi ranks I have yet to be approached by a passenger in a wheelchair. I have passengers who pre-book me by phone, on average about four trips a year in total, so in my view, efforts by pressure groups to force all taxis to be wheelchair accessible just do not make sense.Terry Hill, Thurrock, Essex | |
| In Belfast you can get a wheelchair taxi if you book it in advance, and the drivers are usually great. The downside is you have to pay more for the hire. We actually had a taxi driver try to charge us four pounds more than the normal rate of eight quid. He said it was due to his time and getting the ramp secure, etc. Lindsey, Belfast | In Belfast you can get a wheelchair taxi if you book it in advance, and the drivers are usually great. The downside is you have to pay more for the hire. We actually had a taxi driver try to charge us four pounds more than the normal rate of eight quid. He said it was due to his time and getting the ramp secure, etc. Lindsey, Belfast |
| My dad has limited mobility but does not use a wheelchair. On Tuesday, he needed a taxi to get to his physio session. We simply phoned a local taxi service and asked for a car suitable for someone with limited mobility - they obviously had a range of vehicles available to suit all needs, and quickly sorted it out. He got a different car and driver for each trip, but both drivers were friendly, offered help with great tact and stood by in case of need, then checked he was comfortable and secure in his seat before setting off. We are not sure if they had been specially trained, but they were both great. Taxi drivers CAN do a wonderful job with disabled and elderly people - so many thanks to all of them who do.Isobel, Salisbury | |
| As a wheelchair user, I never even bother trying to hail a taxi anymore, I always find a taxi rank and knock on the window at the front. Never had a problem getting a taxi that way. But they are so expensive, and on the basis it IS virtually impossible to hail a taxi, I just drive myself and struggle to find a parking place instead. May not be quicker, but it is easier and cheaper (so long as you avoid the parking tickets that are so common in London).Nick, London | |
| As I use a wheelchair and visit london a lot I don't find anything wrong with the taxi drivers there. They all pick me up if I need one and they are all very kind to disabled people such as me. Aaron, Sheffield | As I use a wheelchair and visit london a lot I don't find anything wrong with the taxi drivers there. They all pick me up if I need one and they are all very kind to disabled people such as me. Aaron, Sheffield |
| I don't know about the local policies within Coventry but I have seen taxi drivers here get out of their cabs to help both disabled and the elderly get safely into their cab on several occasions. Although it also appears that here we have a taxi service run specifically for disabled members of the public as I have seen several of them about town. Simon, Coventry | I don't know about the local policies within Coventry but I have seen taxi drivers here get out of their cabs to help both disabled and the elderly get safely into their cab on several occasions. Although it also appears that here we have a taxi service run specifically for disabled members of the public as I have seen several of them about town. Simon, Coventry |
| Spare a thought for those of us outside of London. Councils are not pushing for wheelchair accessible taxis outside of London enough. Tendring, Colchester and others are allowing new saloon cars to be plated over new wheelchair-accessible vehicles and thus blocking out access to wheelchair users. Buses are being replaced, with older buses being pushed onto smaller towns where the hope seems to be that they are ran into the ground and no one complains. I am currently trying to talk to First Group buses about this as well as Tendring District Council. It should be very interesting. Dominic Lund-Conlon, Clacton, UK | Spare a thought for those of us outside of London. Councils are not pushing for wheelchair accessible taxis outside of London enough. Tendring, Colchester and others are allowing new saloon cars to be plated over new wheelchair-accessible vehicles and thus blocking out access to wheelchair users. Buses are being replaced, with older buses being pushed onto smaller towns where the hope seems to be that they are ran into the ground and no one complains. I am currently trying to talk to First Group buses about this as well as Tendring District Council. It should be very interesting. Dominic Lund-Conlon, Clacton, UK |
| As someone who has worked with adults in wheelchairs, I can say I have never experienced problems of taxis blatantly refusing to pick us up. If anything, most drivers have been very accommodating and helpful, making sure they park close enough to the curb and jumping out to help get the wheelchair inside. Perhaps taxis have purposely passed us by while trying to flag it, but you never know what the case is. Jo, Liverpool | As someone who has worked with adults in wheelchairs, I can say I have never experienced problems of taxis blatantly refusing to pick us up. If anything, most drivers have been very accommodating and helpful, making sure they park close enough to the curb and jumping out to help get the wheelchair inside. Perhaps taxis have purposely passed us by while trying to flag it, but you never know what the case is. Jo, Liverpool |
| Some years ago whilst my wife - who uses a wheelchair - was pregnant, we went to London for a weekend. After a visit to Harrods, a doorman asked if we needed a taxi. As we approached a black cab the driver looked up saw us and drove off. The doorman and ourselves could not believe what had just happened and he kept saying sorry. It's about time people understood what it is like not to walk.Jon Waters, Ripon | Some years ago whilst my wife - who uses a wheelchair - was pregnant, we went to London for a weekend. After a visit to Harrods, a doorman asked if we needed a taxi. As we approached a black cab the driver looked up saw us and drove off. The doorman and ourselves could not believe what had just happened and he kept saying sorry. It's about time people understood what it is like not to walk.Jon Waters, Ripon |
| Whenever I go to London in my wheelchair I always find taxi drivers helpful and have never been turned away. Perhaps it's because I use a lightweight chair. Network Rail do their best, but there are far too many stations that are inaccessible. There are also far too many shops that do nothing to help you gain entry. A small step that can be overcome easily is often the barrier. These are the villains that should be prosecuted, but the only redress I can get is to sue them and I haven't the time or the energy as I am married, have children and work full time. Perhaps councils should take action against those that fail to comply (after offering suitable advice). Nick Power, Dorchester | Whenever I go to London in my wheelchair I always find taxi drivers helpful and have never been turned away. Perhaps it's because I use a lightweight chair. Network Rail do their best, but there are far too many stations that are inaccessible. There are also far too many shops that do nothing to help you gain entry. A small step that can be overcome easily is often the barrier. These are the villains that should be prosecuted, but the only redress I can get is to sue them and I haven't the time or the energy as I am married, have children and work full time. Perhaps councils should take action against those that fail to comply (after offering suitable advice). Nick Power, Dorchester |
| I am a taxi driver who has a saloon car as a taxi. If all taxis were made wheelchair accessible, where would that leave owners like me?Richard Hewson, Folkestone, UK | I am a taxi driver who has a saloon car as a taxi. If all taxis were made wheelchair accessible, where would that leave owners like me?Richard Hewson, Folkestone, UK |
| I have many wheelchair-using friends for whom the wheelchair is the most visible sign of their difficulties in dealing with everyday life. Whilst I applaud any company's attempts to make their operations *wheelchair friendly* the sad fact is you will always find people who don't cope well when faced with disability. This can range from the students who sit on the priority seats on public transport to the drivers who think "no one's there at the moment so I'll just nip in" using the disabled spaces at the supermarket. The next driver behind you could be a wheelchair user, you don't know.Danie Jones, Cambridge, England | I have many wheelchair-using friends for whom the wheelchair is the most visible sign of their difficulties in dealing with everyday life. Whilst I applaud any company's attempts to make their operations *wheelchair friendly* the sad fact is you will always find people who don't cope well when faced with disability. This can range from the students who sit on the priority seats on public transport to the drivers who think "no one's there at the moment so I'll just nip in" using the disabled spaces at the supermarket. The next driver behind you could be a wheelchair user, you don't know.Danie Jones, Cambridge, England |
| Danie, I have a friend who uses a wheelchair. There's nothing wrong with students sitting in priority seats on transport - if no one who needs it is there, then why not use it? If someone does need it then people are 9/10 times willing to give it up. Emily | |
| My wife is a lightweight wheelchair user and we find that the black cab drivers cannot secure her safely in the cab. She feels much safer transferring into the front seat of a saloon car. However, our local authority is phasing out the normal cars in favour of the black cabs.Martin, Chelmsford UK | |
| I have found taxi drivers in my area as helpful and polite. But on one journey the driver made a comment, in that there were few too people in wheelchairs that use taxis. And that I was the first customer he had picked up in years as a taxi driver that used a wheelchair - thus making it unrealistic for taxi drivers to adapt all their cars. The government really needs to give taxi drivers incentives to adapt their cars and then hopefully enticing the wheelchair user out in the world. Makes me think, though, why are there no taxi drivers in my area that are actually wheelchair users themselves. That would be an interesting equation of the disabled helping the disabled. Angus, Aberdeen | I have found taxi drivers in my area as helpful and polite. But on one journey the driver made a comment, in that there were few too people in wheelchairs that use taxis. And that I was the first customer he had picked up in years as a taxi driver that used a wheelchair - thus making it unrealistic for taxi drivers to adapt all their cars. The government really needs to give taxi drivers incentives to adapt their cars and then hopefully enticing the wheelchair user out in the world. Makes me think, though, why are there no taxi drivers in my area that are actually wheelchair users themselves. That would be an interesting equation of the disabled helping the disabled. Angus, Aberdeen |
| Baroness Chapman has pretty much summed up her own argument with "people with the same impairments have different needs". It's not possible to please all of the people all of the time; that's a fact of life. It may be seen as unfair by some but it should also be recognised that, at present, taxi drivers have to pay for the modification of their cabs themselves and unsurprisingly some are unwilling to do so.Gemma, London | Baroness Chapman has pretty much summed up her own argument with "people with the same impairments have different needs". It's not possible to please all of the people all of the time; that's a fact of life. It may be seen as unfair by some but it should also be recognised that, at present, taxi drivers have to pay for the modification of their cabs themselves and unsurprisingly some are unwilling to do so.Gemma, London |
| I find that most taxi drivers in London could not be more helpful. The only problem I encounter is that you cannot book in advance with Taxicard - they start looking 15 minutes before your desired time. Several times I've been waiting for over an hour or had to give up on my trip altogether, because they don't have very good coverage in all areas. Generally drivers are happy to stop for me and my wheelchair is not a problem at all. Flash Bristow, London | I find that most taxi drivers in London could not be more helpful. The only problem I encounter is that you cannot book in advance with Taxicard - they start looking 15 minutes before your desired time. Several times I've been waiting for over an hour or had to give up on my trip altogether, because they don't have very good coverage in all areas. Generally drivers are happy to stop for me and my wheelchair is not a problem at all. Flash Bristow, London |
| The tagline for your article was "Think you've got problems finding a cab? Try it in a wheelchair". As demonstrated by the article and by the majority of the comments it is actually not overly difficult. I am the last to pretend that London taxi drivers are perfect but I can't help feeling that you have given them a raw deal here. If a driver is expected to pay for the modifications himself and rarely uses them then where is the incentive to do so?Sam, London |