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Version 3 Version 4
Voters grill Turnbull and Shorten at first people's forum of election campaign – live Voters grill Turnbull and Shorten at first people's forum of election campaign – live
(35 minutes later)
11.27am BST
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Fantastic pictures from Mike Bowers tonight. I wish I’d been able to share them earlier.
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This has been terrific, I reckon. Once we are through this I’ll share some thoughts, and some pictures, which I’ve had no time to share!
Into closing statements now.
Malcolm Turnbull is growing the pie, with his plan. And Bill is just the same old Labor.
Bill Shorten says he hopes voters have a better idea of who he is tonight. Now we are into positive plans for putting people first.
11.17am BST
11:17
Final question is when will someone get the budget back into surplus? This bloke is way over debt it would seem, both sides have cocked things up he says.
Bill Shorten lines up first. He says final costings will come in due course but in the interim he’ll run through his shopping list of savings.
I get your frustration.
Speers pushes him on a timeframe. Shorten says it would be reckless to do that this evening.
Malcolm Turnbull says an important element of fairness is not leaving mountains of debt. He says the government has a pathway back to surplus. He says the important thing is to drive economic growth faster than spending. Then the budget returns to balance.
Speers says the reality here is neither side can say when a surplus will happen.
Turnbull says we have a pathway, we set it out in the budget. Shorten says Labor will release the final budget repair numbers and explain how each measure will be paid for. He says he won’t reduce the deficit by giving multinationals a tax cut and shoving budget problems onto household budgets.
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Sticking with question eleven, Speers asks the prime minister whether money matters in education.
Malcolm Turnbull:
Of course it does.
Turnbull says the government has committed record levels of funding and will insist on top standards.
Bill Shorten says if resources don’t matter, why do parents send their kids to private schools now?
11.07am BST
11:07
Question eleven is investing for and in our grandchildren.
Malcolm Turnbull says every child in Australia needs a great education and a great teacher.
Bill Shorten says he has three kids at school. He says he understands the importance of education.
Anyone who tells you money doesn’t matter in education is selling you a pig in a poke.
He says Labor’s plan for growth is an educated population.
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11:04
Keep it down out there people, please.
A friend arrived for the first margarita. It’s worried about rent rises @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/EZEyW8UfwK
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Question ten is childcare funding – a lady who plans to return shortly to work after maternity leave estimates she’ll earn two dollars an hour after she pays childcare.
Bill Shorten says Labor will unveil a childcare policy shortly. Malcolm Turnbull says as a grandfather, he totally gets the problem with childcare costs.
Right on board. Your concerns are our concerns. We are going to deliver a better childcare system for you.
Bill Shorten says hang on, you’ve delayed your childcare package and given wealthy people a tax cut.
10.59am BST
10:59
Question nine is hospitals funding in the regions.
Malcolm Turnbull says the government is committed to funding hospitals but needs to drive the dollar further.
Bill Shorten says Labor will spend more on hospitals and schools, and Labor will pay for that by getting rid of Abbott government policies, such as the emissions reduction fund and the marriage equality plebiscite.
Malcolm Turnbull:
We are long way from regional hospitals, Bill.
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Question number eight is arts funding. How about those cuts?
Bill Shorten says Labor will reverse some of these cuts and properly fund the ABC. He says kiddies need a chance to fall in love with the arts at school.
Malcolm Turnbull says the government’s commitment to schools funding is enormous. (Again, a little rash). He says the government supports the arts, but the dollar must go further.
10.53am BST10.53am BST
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Turnbull says the only winner from royal commissions are lawyers. Then it’s Shorten’s turn to be sardonic. Plenty of lawyers won during the union royal commission, he says. Turnbull uses the opportunity to speak about combating lawlessness.Turnbull says the only winner from royal commissions are lawyers. Then it’s Shorten’s turn to be sardonic. Plenty of lawyers won during the union royal commission, he says. Turnbull uses the opportunity to speak about combating lawlessness.
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Seventh question is banks are bastards.Seventh question is banks are bastards.
Malcolm Turnbull says banks are highly regulated and they deliver a good service to Australians and the government keeps a very close eye on them. (Deliver a good service may be a little rash in an election season. #justsaying)Malcolm Turnbull says banks are highly regulated and they deliver a good service to Australians and the government keeps a very close eye on them. (Deliver a good service may be a little rash in an election season. #justsaying)
Bill Shorten says a royal commission into the banks is well overdue.Bill Shorten says a royal commission into the banks is well overdue.
The questioner wants the government to make the banks to lower interest rates now the RBA has cut rates. Why can’t you make them? The questioner wants the government to make the banks lower interest rates now the RBA has cut rates. Why can’t you make them?
Turnbull says he made some remarks recently to the banks about having a customer centred culture, and the government has boosted the regulator.Turnbull says he made some remarks recently to the banks about having a customer centred culture, and the government has boosted the regulator.
We are right onto that.We are right onto that.
The prime minister says Bill Shorten has recently likened banks to criminals. He thinks this is terrible. Unfortunately for the prime minister there’s a smattering of applause at the Shorten locution.The prime minister says Bill Shorten has recently likened banks to criminals. He thinks this is terrible. Unfortunately for the prime minister there’s a smattering of applause at the Shorten locution.
Speers asks Shorten whether he believes banks are criminals. Shorten says he doesn’t believe that, but he thinks there are cultural issues.Speers asks Shorten whether he believes banks are criminals. Shorten says he doesn’t believe that, but he thinks there are cultural issues.
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Sixth question is on superannuation. Can’t we have access to our own money to buy a house? That’s where it starts anyway.Sixth question is on superannuation. Can’t we have access to our own money to buy a house? That’s where it starts anyway.
Malcolm Turnbull thinks this lady has done a great job paying off her home loan over 28 years, which leads the prime minister to rents. Bill Shorten is going to put up rents.Malcolm Turnbull thinks this lady has done a great job paying off her home loan over 28 years, which leads the prime minister to rents. Bill Shorten is going to put up rents.
Speers says we aren’t talking rents, we are talking about accessing super to buy a house. The questioner comes back. We need a home to live in. What are you going to do about it?Speers says we aren’t talking rents, we are talking about accessing super to buy a house. The questioner comes back. We need a home to live in. What are you going to do about it?
Turnbull says superannuation isn’t there to fund home loans. It’s there to provide for people in retirement. If you allow super to be drawn out before retirement they won’t have money in retirement.Turnbull says superannuation isn’t there to fund home loans. It’s there to provide for people in retirement. If you allow super to be drawn out before retirement they won’t have money in retirement.
Bill Shorten says Labor has no plans to allow people to use their super to pay for their homes. Shorten says he’d like to be liked by everyone watching, but it’s better to tell the truth.Bill Shorten says Labor has no plans to allow people to use their super to pay for their homes. Shorten says he’d like to be liked by everyone watching, but it’s better to tell the truth.
Turnbull grins fairly sardonically at that.Turnbull grins fairly sardonically at that.
Shorten is onto housing affordability now and negative gearing and investors and unfair competition. Why should every taxpayer subsidise something that only a few people use, Shorten wonders.Shorten is onto housing affordability now and negative gearing and investors and unfair competition. Why should every taxpayer subsidise something that only a few people use, Shorten wonders.
Speers wonders why the prime minister thinks rents will go up. The prime minister says anyone who knows anything about property knows rents will go up, ask the real estate agents.Speers wonders why the prime minister thinks rents will go up. The prime minister says anyone who knows anything about property knows rents will go up, ask the real estate agents.
Ok, Shorten says, you want a third party view on our policy, how about the Reserve Bank. They back us. So does Jeff Kennett. So does Joe Hockey.Ok, Shorten says, you want a third party view on our policy, how about the Reserve Bank. They back us. So does Jeff Kennett. So does Joe Hockey.
Turnbull says negative gearing isn’t about millionaires. It’s about people earning less than $80,000, and a lot of them live around this venue.Turnbull says negative gearing isn’t about millionaires. It’s about people earning less than $80,000, and a lot of them live around this venue.
Shorten says plhueeze. Those income figures aren’t what they seem. The current system allows people to minimise their taxable income.Shorten says plhueeze. Those income figures aren’t what they seem. The current system allows people to minimise their taxable income.
Speers wants to know about the excesses in negative gearing that Scott Morrison nominated earlier this year. They are sorted, Turnbull says. Old story.Speers wants to know about the excesses in negative gearing that Scott Morrison nominated earlier this year. They are sorted, Turnbull says. Old story.
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I said these forums are a combo of obvious and random.I said these forums are a combo of obvious and random.
Fifth question is on extradition arrangements and Serbia.Fifth question is on extradition arrangements and Serbia.
Malcolm Turnbull explains how extradition laws work. Shorten agrees with the prime minister’s explanation and says he’ll speak to the lady afterwards.Malcolm Turnbull explains how extradition laws work. Shorten agrees with the prime minister’s explanation and says he’ll speak to the lady afterwards.
10.31am BST
10:31
Fourth question is privatisation. What is the point of governments if you want to privatise everything?
(Strong thematic consistency in this session thus far.)
Bill Shorten says the privatisation pendulum has swung too far.
He segues to Medicare, to Tafe.
I believe an economy shouldn’t govern the community.
Malcolm Turnbull says the privatisation of big businesses belonging to the federal government have largely happened. He says it’s now state assets that are being privatised.
It’s really an issue for state governments, David.
Q: What about Australia Post?
Turnbull says it’s not on the agenda, and has David seen the accounts? It’s not time to flog it off. He repeats, no plans.
Speers asks about the Australian Submarine Corporation? Turnbull says core assets of the ASC will remain in public ownership.
Shorten says the government shouldn’t privatise hearing services if Turnbull is serious about keeping key assets in government ownership. Speers throws that to Turnbull. Turnbull says he’s keen on hearing impaired people getting good services, that’s his priority.
Shorten says look at America and the health system.
Government-run propositions are not always bad for health care or the bottom line.
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Third question is on GP co-payments. Are you going to have those?
Malcolm Turnbull says bulk billing is on the rise, and that means not paying a premium when you go to the doctor. He says healthcare has to be affordable to the patient and to the taxpayer.
Speers says Tony Abbott introduced a co-payment. What’s Turnbull’s position?
That’s no part of our policy.
Q: Never ever?
No.
Bill Shorten says sick people need to be able to go to the doctor. Labor is opposed to getting rid of bulk billing incentives, he says. Shorten says Labor’s health policy is coming soon.
I don’t want to go down the American path.
Speers says what’s the detail though? Shorten says it’s coming.
Turnbull grabs the microphone. He says the government has reached agreement with pathologists so they will continue to bulk bill screening tests.
Shorten grabs the microphone back.
Labor believes in Medicare full stop.
Turnbull grabs the microphone back. Speers presses him on freezing rebates to doctors in the budget. That makes going to the doctor more expensive, Speers says. Turnbull opens the door a chink. We will continue to review it.
There’s some news.
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10:15
Second question is multinational tax avoidance. It’s a long preamble. Speers wants Bob to come to the question. Bob comes to the question. It’s about deeming.
Bill Shorten opens on this question. He says Labor has been at the front of the curve on multinational tax avoidance. Businesses have to pay their fair share.
Speers breaks in, what about deeming?
We are open to all ideas.
Q: So you support it?
Well no, he’s not supporting it, on reflection. Now he thinks he’ll talk to Bob afterwards. (Shorten clearly isn’t across Bob’s deeming idea but doesn’t want to offend Bob, or say he isn’t across it.)
Malcolm Turnbull says great idea Bob, we are already doing it. We have a diverted profits tax. We announced it in the budget.
Bob looks very pleased.
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10:10
Questions now
First question is is about offshoring. Do the leaders have any plans to stop the outsourcing trend so we can keep jobs in Australia? And what’s the plan to attract multinationals to Australia.
Malcolm Turnbull thinks this is a great question. A great question. (Have I mentioned jobs and growth?)
We need to be more competitive and our taxes are too high.
On outsourcing, Turnbull empathises, but he says the government’s objective is to make the country more competitive.
Bill Shorten grabs the microphone. Thanks for that Malcolm, but this was a government that sent the car industry packing. Shorten says Labor wants to maximise Australian content.
We stand up for Australian manufacturing.
Shorten flicks the switch to renewables manufacturing. And we love Medicare, we won’t privatise it, he says.
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Bill Shorten counters
Bill Shorten opens more quietly than Turnbull, in fireside chat mode. Again, it’s the stump speech. Putting people first.
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10:04
It’s basically the stump speech: innovation, the defence spend, looking after young people, and the spending is all fully funded. Turnbull is rocking slightly, projecting to the back of the room.
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10:03
Malcolm Turnbull makes his opening pitch
The prime minister won the coin toss so he gets the opening statement. Malcolm Turnbull opens with .. you won’t believe it .. jobs and growth.
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10:01
The leaders are being ushered into the room now. A grip and grin. Then a repeat grip and grin for the photographers.
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10:00
People's forum now underway
Moderator David Speers is now outlining the rules of engagement for this evening. He’s looking quite cheerful.
9.56am BST
09:56
If Sky brings on a body language expert, I'm going to end up on an ASIO black list
(The body language expert was on about 5pm. Shoosh. Don’t tell.)