This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/07/california-primary-governor-jerry-brown-pete-wilson-gray-davis-interview
The article has changed 6 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 0 | Version 1 |
|---|---|
| California changin’: three governors see history repeated in state’s primary | California changin’: three governors see history repeated in state’s primary |
| (about 5 hours later) | |
| Jerry Brown sat beside a glittering swimming pool at the governor’s mansion, having just perused a batch of California newspapers in the spring sunshine. | Jerry Brown sat beside a glittering swimming pool at the governor’s mansion, having just perused a batch of California newspapers in the spring sunshine. |
| The papers were now folded and stacked on a table. The governor looked a little bored. “History isn’t a big topic in most newspapers,” he said. | The papers were now folded and stacked on a table. The governor looked a little bored. “History isn’t a big topic in most newspapers,” he said. |
| Brown is a big thinker, never willingly constrained by the borders of his state. | Brown is a big thinker, never willingly constrained by the borders of his state. |
| During an interview at his Sacramento residence that lasted close to an hour, he showed more interest in issues that occupy presidents than governors: climate change, nuclear proliferation, terrorism, the buildup of Nato troops along the Russian border, the global economy. | During an interview at his Sacramento residence that lasted close to an hour, he showed more interest in issues that occupy presidents than governors: climate change, nuclear proliferation, terrorism, the buildup of Nato troops along the Russian border, the global economy. |
| Related: Sanders hopes to defy odds with turnout: 'California loves a comeback' | Related: Sanders hopes to defy odds with turnout: 'California loves a comeback' |
| “Look at Brazil, Chile, France, Ukraine, Poland – there’s a lot of unhappy folk out there,” he said. “We’ve had a period of … wealth. A lot of people are well-situated. But a lot of other people aren’t. Therein is the debate. Can the center hold? Can leadership rise to the occasion?” | |
| Brown is one of three living California governors, including his predecessors Gray Davis and Pete Wilson, who once had a shot at occupying the White House. (Arnold Schwarzenegger, a naturalized citizen, is not eligible to run; George Deukmejian showed minimal interest in national office.) | Brown is one of three living California governors, including his predecessors Gray Davis and Pete Wilson, who once had a shot at occupying the White House. (Arnold Schwarzenegger, a naturalized citizen, is not eligible to run; George Deukmejian showed minimal interest in national office.) |
| In extensive sit-downs with the Guardian, Brown, Davis and Wilson offered sharply competing visions of the challenges facing California and the presidential candidates who have been crisscrossing the Golden State in the lead-up to the state’s presidential primary on Tuesday. | In extensive sit-downs with the Guardian, Brown, Davis and Wilson offered sharply competing visions of the challenges facing California and the presidential candidates who have been crisscrossing the Golden State in the lead-up to the state’s presidential primary on Tuesday. |
| Yet both Brown and his two predecessors betrayed, in different ways, an anxiety about the pace of change in the state they governed, collectively, for four decades. | Yet both Brown and his two predecessors betrayed, in different ways, an anxiety about the pace of change in the state they governed, collectively, for four decades. |
| The challenges that face California’s governors eclipse those of heads of state of many countries. Major issues that confound global policymakers are decanted to their essence here: income inequality, climate change, globalization, technological disruption. | The challenges that face California’s governors eclipse those of heads of state of many countries. Major issues that confound global policymakers are decanted to their essence here: income inequality, climate change, globalization, technological disruption. |
| The state has a population bigger than Canada’s and an economy among the top 10 in the world – up there with Japan, the UK, Germany and India – thrust forward by a relentless thirst for innovation. | The state has a population bigger than Canada’s and an economy among the top 10 in the world – up there with Japan, the UK, Germany and India – thrust forward by a relentless thirst for innovation. |
| “The state is always off balance, stretching itself precariously, improvising, seeking to run the rapids of periodic tidal waves of migration,” historian Carey McWilliams wrote in California: The Great Exception. | “The state is always off balance, stretching itself precariously, improvising, seeking to run the rapids of periodic tidal waves of migration,” historian Carey McWilliams wrote in California: The Great Exception. |
| McWilliams’ work was published in 1949, but it sounds like it could have come out just last week. | McWilliams’ work was published in 1949, but it sounds like it could have come out just last week. |
| Jerry Brown: a second shot at running the state | Jerry Brown: a second shot at running the state |
| No one alive in California today can claim to have a better understanding of the state’s recent journey, its ebbs and its flows, than Brown, its longest-serving governor. | No one alive in California today can claim to have a better understanding of the state’s recent journey, its ebbs and its flows, than Brown, its longest-serving governor. |
| He began his first two consecutive terms as a 36-year-old in 1975. His second two terms in office will finish in 2019, when he is 80. | He began his first two consecutive terms as a 36-year-old in 1975. His second two terms in office will finish in 2019, when he is 80. |
| “I have this experience of sitting in the same room, with the same windows, looking out at the place there in the Capital Park, and the memory of what was relevant then,” he said. | “I have this experience of sitting in the same room, with the same windows, looking out at the place there in the Capital Park, and the memory of what was relevant then,” he said. |
| All of which can lead to a certain deja vu. | All of which can lead to a certain deja vu. |
| Asked about the notion of giving all citizens an unconditional, universal income – a concept currently in vogue in Silicon Valley, where it is taken for granted that robots will render most jobs defunct – Brown looked a little weary. | Asked about the notion of giving all citizens an unconditional, universal income – a concept currently in vogue in Silicon Valley, where it is taken for granted that robots will render most jobs defunct – Brown looked a little weary. |
| “That’s called a demi-grant,” he said. “That’s what George McGovern proposed in the 1972 campaign. It didn’t go over very well.” | “That’s called a demi-grant,” he said. “That’s what George McGovern proposed in the 1972 campaign. It didn’t go over very well.” |
| When it comes to financial affairs, Brown’s prudence is well established. No historical cycle appears to irk him more than California’s habit of lurching from economic good times to bad, from boom to bust. | When it comes to financial affairs, Brown’s prudence is well established. No historical cycle appears to irk him more than California’s habit of lurching from economic good times to bad, from boom to bust. |
| After witnessing how economic disasters brought down predecessors such as Davis and Schwarzenegger, Brown has made the cautious stewardship of state finances his hallmark. | After witnessing how economic disasters brought down predecessors such as Davis and Schwarzenegger, Brown has made the cautious stewardship of state finances his hallmark. |
| Through a combination of spending cuts, good fortune and tax increases, Brown has erased the $27bn deficit. He has done so while setting drastic goals to reduce California’s carbon emissions and is enjoying popularity ratings that are the envy of many rival governors. | |
| “I think our success is a refutation of those who say climate change investments retard the economy,” he said. | “I think our success is a refutation of those who say climate change investments retard the economy,” he said. |
| Now the books are balanced, and legislators in his own Democratic party are calling for more spending on social programs. | Now the books are balanced, and legislators in his own Democratic party are calling for more spending on social programs. |
| But the governor, who recently signed a law that will increase California’s minimum wage to $15 an hour in six years, is urging restraint. He argues that a recent dip in tax revenues underscores the need to prepare for what could be another economic downturn. | But the governor, who recently signed a law that will increase California’s minimum wage to $15 an hour in six years, is urging restraint. He argues that a recent dip in tax revenues underscores the need to prepare for what could be another economic downturn. |
| “When you’re at the end of a business cycle, there’s a lot of money, and you’ve had a history of a lot of money so you’re very acclimated to having money, so it is very hard to say in the middle of that ‘Oh, halt, let’s slow down, let’s save’,” he said, explaining the reluctance of his adversaries. “It doesn’t feel right.” | “When you’re at the end of a business cycle, there’s a lot of money, and you’ve had a history of a lot of money so you’re very acclimated to having money, so it is very hard to say in the middle of that ‘Oh, halt, let’s slow down, let’s save’,” he said, explaining the reluctance of his adversaries. “It doesn’t feel right.” |
| Brown claimed to be unaware of the chorus of concern among venture capitalists and analysts in Silicon Valley. They worry that 16 years after the first dotcom bubble burst, the tech economy, the modern engine of growth in California, is once again contracting. | |
| “I haven’t heard much about it but it wouldn’t surprise me,” he said. | “I haven’t heard much about it but it wouldn’t surprise me,” he said. |
| Brown preaches patience when it comes to the two major infrastructure projects he hopes will define his legacy – tunnels to transfer water to agricultural parts of the state parched by drought, and an ambitious high-speed rail line. | Brown preaches patience when it comes to the two major infrastructure projects he hopes will define his legacy – tunnels to transfer water to agricultural parts of the state parched by drought, and an ambitious high-speed rail line. |
| He seemed unfazed by PayPal billionaire Elon Musk’s proposed Hyperloop – a pneumatic tube to ferry passengers between San Francisco and Los Angeles for a tenth of the price of a high-speed rail system | He seemed unfazed by PayPal billionaire Elon Musk’s proposed Hyperloop – a pneumatic tube to ferry passengers between San Francisco and Los Angeles for a tenth of the price of a high-speed rail system |
| “That’s … vaporware,” Brown said, using tech shorthand for a product that isn’t ready for public consumption. “And by the way, they’re different things: aren’t you in a little thing going in a vacuum tube? That’s not the same as looking out the window, socializing with your neighbor, is it?” | |
| People definitely like actors … people like a good show | |
| Brown sought the Democratic nomination for president three times in his career – in 1976, 1980 and 1992 – and was mooted as a formidable candidate this year, too. | Brown sought the Democratic nomination for president three times in his career – in 1976, 1980 and 1992 – and was mooted as a formidable candidate this year, too. |
| His most successful run was against Bill Clinton, although it famously descended into bitterness. | His most successful run was against Bill Clinton, although it famously descended into bitterness. |
| His populist, grassroots campaign railed against trade deals such as Nafta, called for a living wage and promised reform of a “corrupt” campaign finance system. | His populist, grassroots campaign railed against trade deals such as Nafta, called for a living wage and promised reform of a “corrupt” campaign finance system. |
| “Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?” Brown said, alluding to Bernie Sanders’ leftwing run, which has ignited a liberal base of voters. “I think I even said ‘the 1%’.” | “Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?” Brown said, alluding to Bernie Sanders’ leftwing run, which has ignited a liberal base of voters. “I think I even said ‘the 1%’.” |
| Brown had not endorsed any candidate in the Democratic primary when he was interviewed by the Guardian last month. | Brown had not endorsed any candidate in the Democratic primary when he was interviewed by the Guardian last month. |
| But last week, he opted to endorse Hillary Clinton. | But last week, he opted to endorse Hillary Clinton. |
| It was a muted endorsement, following a private meeting with his former foe, Bill Clinton. He made the announcement in an open letter to Democrats that praised Sanders as much as Clinton, and portrayed his decision as an exercise in political pragmatism rather than any affinity for the Democratic frontrunner. | It was a muted endorsement, following a private meeting with his former foe, Bill Clinton. He made the announcement in an open letter to Democrats that praised Sanders as much as Clinton, and portrayed his decision as an exercise in political pragmatism rather than any affinity for the Democratic frontrunner. |
| “This is no time for Democrats to keep fighting each other,” Brown wrote, after explaining how insurmountable Clinton’s lead was and warning of the consequences of a Donald Trump presidency. “The general election has already begun.” | “This is no time for Democrats to keep fighting each other,” Brown wrote, after explaining how insurmountable Clinton’s lead was and warning of the consequences of a Donald Trump presidency. “The general election has already begun.” |
| Brown argues that Trump’s political candidacy replicates the narrative of his TV show The Apprentice. | Brown argues that Trump’s political candidacy replicates the narrative of his TV show The Apprentice. |
| Only this time the real estate baron says “you’re fired” not to a contestant, Brown says, but to the “the failing status quo, in Washington, in the economy, in the world”. | |
| The experience of an unorthodox candidate with celebrity appeal igniting the populist fire is not a new one for Brown. Both of his stints as California governor saw him replace actors-turned-politicians – Reagan in 1975 and Schwarzenegger in 2011. | The experience of an unorthodox candidate with celebrity appeal igniting the populist fire is not a new one for Brown. Both of his stints as California governor saw him replace actors-turned-politicians – Reagan in 1975 and Schwarzenegger in 2011. |
| “People definitely like actors,” Brown said. “After Pat Brown, people chose Ronald Reagan … After Davis was recalled, they chose Arnold … People like a good show.” | |
| Gray Davis: ‘The problems are far more severe now’ | Gray Davis: ‘The problems are far more severe now’ |
| Until this year’s expected contest between Clinton and Trump, it has been hard to find two candidates as different from each other as Gray Davis and Arnold “Hasta la vista, baby” Schwarzenegger. | Until this year’s expected contest between Clinton and Trump, it has been hard to find two candidates as different from each other as Gray Davis and Arnold “Hasta la vista, baby” Schwarzenegger. |
| Davis is disciplined and moderate, cautious and exceedingly low-key. After stints as state controller and lieutenant governor, he was viewed, in the words of San Jose Mercury News political writer Phil Trounstine, as “perhaps the best trained governor-in-waiting that California has ever produced”. | |
| As one California columnist put it in a piece about possible presidential candidates to post up against the then president George W Bush: “Don’t be surprised if, sometime in early 2003, Democratic eyes turn to Sacramento. Gray Davis is as plausible a candidate as anyone. | |
| But the special election cut short Davis’ second term, silenced all talk of a 2004 presidential bid and put a Hollywood action star in his office. Davis became the second governor in American history to be recalled. | But the special election cut short Davis’ second term, silenced all talk of a 2004 presidential bid and put a Hollywood action star in his office. Davis became the second governor in American history to be recalled. |
| The main similarity between 2003 and 2016, Davis said, is anger. | The main similarity between 2003 and 2016, Davis said, is anger. |
| Voters who support Sanders and Trump are furious at an oblivious political class and an economy that has benefited the few while leaving the many behind. Thirteen years ago, Californians seethed over a $38bn state budget deficit and an electricity crisis that dimmed lights while benefiting Enron. | Voters who support Sanders and Trump are furious at an oblivious political class and an economy that has benefited the few while leaving the many behind. Thirteen years ago, Californians seethed over a $38bn state budget deficit and an electricity crisis that dimmed lights while benefiting Enron. |
| “We had some budget issues,” Davis said with characteristic understatement during a 90-minute interview in his Century City office. “We had the energy crisis. I think people were disappointed. But that kind of pales in comparison with what I think America’s going through now.” | “We had some budget issues,” Davis said with characteristic understatement during a 90-minute interview in his Century City office. “We had the energy crisis. I think people were disappointed. But that kind of pales in comparison with what I think America’s going through now.” |
| The state unemployment rate when Davis was governor peaked at 7%. As the Great Recession ended, it crested 12% before dropping to a preliminary reading of 5.3% this past April. Although millions of people are back to work in California and across the country, the gap between rich and poor has widened, and good, middle-class jobs are hard to find. | The state unemployment rate when Davis was governor peaked at 7%. As the Great Recession ended, it crested 12% before dropping to a preliminary reading of 5.3% this past April. Although millions of people are back to work in California and across the country, the gap between rich and poor has widened, and good, middle-class jobs are hard to find. |
| “I think the problems are far more severe now because of technology displacing jobs, in part because of trade pacts,” Davis said. “There are more and more Americans, be they college educated or not, they can’t find fulfilling work. And that is a big problem.” | “I think the problems are far more severe now because of technology displacing jobs, in part because of trade pacts,” Davis said. “There are more and more Americans, be they college educated or not, they can’t find fulfilling work. And that is a big problem.” |
| Finding meaningful employment for those wanting work is among the biggest challenges facing California, says the soft-spoken 73-year-old. Another one? Making sure those jobseekers are equipped to survive in a rapidly changing world. | |
| “We’re the home of Silicon Valley, and a lot of this technological change emanates from our state,” Davis said. “So I think we have an obligation as a society – Silicon Valley has an obligation, as well as state and federal government – to figure out, OK, if we put people out of work, what is it they can do? And how can we be part of helping them?” | “We’re the home of Silicon Valley, and a lot of this technological change emanates from our state,” Davis said. “So I think we have an obligation as a society – Silicon Valley has an obligation, as well as state and federal government – to figure out, OK, if we put people out of work, what is it they can do? And how can we be part of helping them?” |
| [Hillary Clinton] is as qualified a person as has ever run for the presidency | [Hillary Clinton] is as qualified a person as has ever run for the presidency |
| Effective vocational training is a first step, Davis said, but it can’t be “some rinky-dinky program, unless it leads to a job that’s meaningful”. | |
| Virginia is one possible model. Ninth-graders in the Old Dominion are told early in the school year what jobs are available in their region and what courses they should take to be hired, he said. High school juniors and seniors are linked up with prospective employers. | Virginia is one possible model. Ninth-graders in the Old Dominion are told early in the school year what jobs are available in their region and what courses they should take to be hired, he said. High school juniors and seniors are linked up with prospective employers. |
| “So even if you don’t go to college, you can see, ‘I’m graduating and maybe there’s a place I can go’,” Davis said. “Even the most sophisticated companies have computers and machines that need to be serviced. Those are about $90,000, $100,000 [a year] jobs.” | “So even if you don’t go to college, you can see, ‘I’m graduating and maybe there’s a place I can go’,” Davis said. “Even the most sophisticated companies have computers and machines that need to be serviced. Those are about $90,000, $100,000 [a year] jobs.” |
| Among those he has lobbied, often, is Hillary Clinton, whom he describes as being “in total agreement”. | Among those he has lobbied, often, is Hillary Clinton, whom he describes as being “in total agreement”. |
| Davis is a strong backer of Clinton’s presidential bid. She might not be the world’s best campaigner, he acknowledges, an honor that goes to her husband. But she is “as qualified a person as has ever run for the presidency”. | Davis is a strong backer of Clinton’s presidential bid. She might not be the world’s best campaigner, he acknowledges, an honor that goes to her husband. But she is “as qualified a person as has ever run for the presidency”. |
| There they are in a framed photo on the wall of his very neat office: Davis to the left, his hair a little more blond than grey, Clinton in the middle and Univision chairman Haim Saban to the right. The photo dates from 2008 when the former governor and the billionaire mega donor backed her first run for the Oval Office. Both are in her corner again. | There they are in a framed photo on the wall of his very neat office: Davis to the left, his hair a little more blond than grey, Clinton in the middle and Univision chairman Haim Saban to the right. The photo dates from 2008 when the former governor and the billionaire mega donor backed her first run for the Oval Office. Both are in her corner again. |
| Pete Wilson: ‘We have been losing jobs at a fearful rate for a very long time’ | Pete Wilson: ‘We have been losing jobs at a fearful rate for a very long time’ |
| Many point to Pete Wilson and Proposition 187 to explain the collapse of the California Republican party. | Many point to Pete Wilson and Proposition 187 to explain the collapse of the California Republican party. |
| When he was elected governor in 1990, the GOP claimed 39% of the state’s registered voters. That figure has dropped more than 11 percentage points since. | When he was elected governor in 1990, the GOP claimed 39% of the state’s registered voters. That figure has dropped more than 11 percentage points since. |
| But the 82-year-old Republican calls such a characterization “the mythology that has been promoted aggressively by the people who are for illegal immigration, and I’m not talking about the immigrants. I’m talking about the smart pols and the people they employed to promote that.” | But the 82-year-old Republican calls such a characterization “the mythology that has been promoted aggressively by the people who are for illegal immigration, and I’m not talking about the immigrants. I’m talking about the smart pols and the people they employed to promote that.” |
| Proposition 187, which sought to bar undocumented immigrants from services such as education and non-emergency medical care, passed with 59% of the vote in 1994, Wilson notes, a feat that could not have occurred without the support of registered Democrats. It was later tossed out by a federal judge. | Proposition 187, which sought to bar undocumented immigrants from services such as education and non-emergency medical care, passed with 59% of the vote in 1994, Wilson notes, a feat that could not have occurred without the support of registered Democrats. It was later tossed out by a federal judge. |
| The measure, a cornerstone of his re-election campaign, helped Wilson win a come-from-behind race. At the time, he pledged to serve his full second term. When he announced in 1995 that he had a “duty” to run for president, he angered many of his loyal donors. After just six months, he dropped out of the race, his campaign $1m in debt. | |
| “The vote for 187 greatly exceeded the Republican registration,” Wilson said. “And, in fact, when [then president Bill] Clinton and [then vice-president Al] Gore came here and were being very righteous, I said, ‘Well, if you really think that’s true, I have to remind you of something. The vote for 187 greatly exceeded the vote for Clinton-Gore. And I don’t think it was a bunch of Republicans voting for Clinton-Gore’.” | “The vote for 187 greatly exceeded the Republican registration,” Wilson said. “And, in fact, when [then president Bill] Clinton and [then vice-president Al] Gore came here and were being very righteous, I said, ‘Well, if you really think that’s true, I have to remind you of something. The vote for 187 greatly exceeded the vote for Clinton-Gore. And I don’t think it was a bunch of Republicans voting for Clinton-Gore’.” |
| The way Wilson sees it, demographics are largely to blame for the shrinking California GOP, not Prop 187. | The way Wilson sees it, demographics are largely to blame for the shrinking California GOP, not Prop 187. |
| In 1990, the population stood at just under 30 million, with 57% of residents white and 25% Latino. By 1 July 2014, Latinos had officially edged out whites as the largest ethnic group in California; out of 38.8 million people at the time, 14.99 million were Latino and 14.92 million were white. | In 1990, the population stood at just under 30 million, with 57% of residents white and 25% Latino. By 1 July 2014, Latinos had officially edged out whites as the largest ethnic group in California; out of 38.8 million people at the time, 14.99 million were Latino and 14.92 million were white. |
| In addition, Wilson said, “a lot of people have moved out of California who were Republicans. They have moved to Montana, Texas. They’ve moved into Nevada… Part of it is people left when their jobs left. And we have been losing jobs at a fearful rate for a very long time.” | In addition, Wilson said, “a lot of people have moved out of California who were Republicans. They have moved to Montana, Texas. They’ve moved into Nevada… Part of it is people left when their jobs left. And we have been losing jobs at a fearful rate for a very long time.” |
| I have to laugh to keep from crying | I have to laugh to keep from crying |
| The former marine said that when he threw his support behind 187, he “took the greatest pains not to be misunderstood” about his position. The measure is not about race, he said then and repeats now, but rather about the rule of law. Those who come to this generous nation legally should enjoy its benefits; those who break the law should not. | |
| Wilson supports Trump’s plan to build a wall along the Mexican border but says that it should be part physical structure, part sensory technology, part beefed up law enforcement personnel. Until such a wall is completed, he said, there should be no mass deportations of undocumented people. | Wilson supports Trump’s plan to build a wall along the Mexican border but says that it should be part physical structure, part sensory technology, part beefed up law enforcement personnel. Until such a wall is completed, he said, there should be no mass deportations of undocumented people. |
| The problem of illegal immigration highlights what Wilson views as one of California’s most serious problems: the power of labor unions. | The problem of illegal immigration highlights what Wilson views as one of California’s most serious problems: the power of labor unions. |
| “You’ve got people living in the shadows,” he said in a wide-ranging interview that lasted more than two hours. “And it has been encouraged, frankly, by the Democratic party and, God knows, by the public employee unions, who see that as a source of new membership, new dues and remaining in power politically, indefinitely, with a permanent majority of illegal immigrants.” | “You’ve got people living in the shadows,” he said in a wide-ranging interview that lasted more than two hours. “And it has been encouraged, frankly, by the Democratic party and, God knows, by the public employee unions, who see that as a source of new membership, new dues and remaining in power politically, indefinitely, with a permanent majority of illegal immigrants.” |
| Unions, he said, are behind yet another challenge facing California – resurrecting the public schools system which “we have been dumbing down … for years.” | Unions, he said, are behind yet another challenge facing California – resurrecting the public schools system which “we have been dumbing down … for years.” |
| Despite Trump’s tough talk on immigration, the billionaire was not Wilson’s choice for Republican presidential nominee. He was third, behind Wisconsin governor Scott Walker and Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who bowed out just three days after Wilson endorsed him. | |
| Cruz’s departure rendered Trump the presumptive GOP nominee, a fact that left many establishment Republicans like Wilson bewildered. | Cruz’s departure rendered Trump the presumptive GOP nominee, a fact that left many establishment Republicans like Wilson bewildered. |
| “I have to laugh to keep from crying,” he said. | “I have to laugh to keep from crying,” he said. |
| That is a damning reaction to the presumptive Republican nominee and his takeover of the GOP. Still, Wilson has never sat out a presidential election, and he doesn’t plan to start now. | That is a damning reaction to the presumptive Republican nominee and his takeover of the GOP. Still, Wilson has never sat out a presidential election, and he doesn’t plan to start now. |
| Asked if he would endorse Trump, Wilson replied: “I think so … The stakes are simply too high.” | Asked if he would endorse Trump, Wilson replied: “I think so … The stakes are simply too high.” |