'Northern Territory juvenile detention 'may amount to torture', says Unicef – as it happened' diff viewer (1/2)

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Northern Territory youth detention: reaction to royal commission over footage – live	Northern Territory youth detention: reaction to royal commission over footage – live
2016-07-25 23:55:07 UTC	2016-07-26 00:30:09 UTC (35 minutes later)
	1.29am BST
	01:29
	Elle Hunt
	Thanks, Calla.
	Gillian Triggs, the president of the Australian Human Rights Commission, has praised Malcolm Turnbull’s quick response to Four Corners’ investigation into allegations of abuse in juvenile detention in the Northern Territory last night.
	“It’s the kind of leadership we need on an issue that’s been going on for a very long time.”
	She agreed that she had been frustrated by the state government’s response to concerns over the treatment of young people in detention, which she had raised on a number of occasions in the past.
	It had been an “ongoing matter” not only her as president of the HRC, but also for its respective commissioners on Aboriginal and Torres Strait islanders, as young people held in detention in the NT are disproportionately Indigenous.
	98% of young people held in detention in the NT are Indigenous, compared to 48% across the whole of Australia, she said – and these children were “particularly vulnerable”.
	Triggs was positive about Turnbull’s announcement of a royal commission this morning: “The tone was of a prime minister who wants to do something about it immediately.”
	But she did question why past inquiries into tear gassing incident at the former Don Dale juvenile detention facility near Darwin did not yield the same findings as Four Corners’ investigation.
	The CCTV footage broadcast showed “a completely different story” to that given by authorities of the incident, Triggs said – meaning either the inquiries did not have access to this information and footage, or did not seek it.
	The royal commission will have legal powers to insist on that information, which she said will be “critically important”.
	Triggs agreed with the prime minister that it was important that the response to the revelations was swift, with an interim report, then a consolidation of that report.
	But she also was in favour of extending the scope of the commission to include national conditions for children in detention, perhaps in a second phase. “In some instances there are well-trained staff, good programs and good facilities – that must be acknowledged. But in other parts of Australia, they are very poor.”
	Triggs was also in support of a national, federal approach to monitoring detention centres – and repercussions for the individual officers involved in the 2014 incident at Don Dale.
	“Internationally and domestically, if you treat children this way, if you and I were to treat our children this way, we would be prosecuted criminally, and our children would be taken away from us. These children are in a loco parentis relationship with the state … and the officers should be responsible for the ways in which they have behaved.”
	1.09am BST
	01:09
	Gillian Triggs, the president of the Australian Human Rights Commission, is speaking on ABC 24 now.
	The prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, is due to speak further on his call for a royal commission later today.
	But for now I’ll hand over to my colleague, Elle Hunt, who is following Triggs’s interview.
	1.02am BST
	01:02
	The director of Human Rights Watch Australia, Elaine Pearson, said events at Don Dale and Berrimah youth detention centres were “a classic example or how not to deal with troubled youth.”
	Pearson:
	Excessive use of force, isolation and shackling of children is barbaric and inhumane. What makes it even more appalling is that the Northern Territory’s Children’s Commissioner exposed some of these issues last year, and yet the abusive practices persist.
	This is not only a matter of training. Excessive force is an abuse and the perpetrators of such abuses should be held to account. Better alternatives to locking kids up for prolonged periods must be found. We welcome a royal commission into practices of juvenile detention to uncover the extent of this abuse, not just in the Northern Territory but in other parts of Australia.
	12.56am BST
	00:56
	The Red Cross has said the royal commission needs to explore alternatives to detention for young people.
	Here’s community services director, Kerry McGrath:
	We have just witnessed the abuse that children can experience in the prison system and it must stop now. Red Cross encourages the Northern Territory Government to establish interim independent monitoring of youth detention facilities pending the recommendations of a royal commission
	Looking at how prisons are run is only half the solution. We also need better ways to keep kids out of prison in the first place, as well as help them reintegrate into the community afterwards,” said McGrath.
	We need an honest conversation about rebalancing our justice system. Funds that now go into incarcerating kids can be better spent on community programs that help them stay out of trouble.
	That’s the basic premise of the Justice Reinvestment program, which focuses on supporting young people rather than detaining them. Bill Shorten has said Labor supports the idea.
	My colleague, Michael Safi, wrote about how Justice Reinvestment works in Bourke, NSW, last year.
12.49am BST	12.49am BST
00:49	00:49
Professor Megan Davis is the chair of the United Nations permanent forum on Indigenous peoples.	Professor Megan Davis is the chair of the United Nations permanent forum on Indigenous peoples.
She said this, in response to the announcement of a royal commission.	She said this, in response to the announcement of a royal commission.
Can I just say if you look at Aust's UN CROC reports, we aren't a particularly child friendly nation. We don't fare well on child rights.	Can I just say if you look at Aust's UN CROC reports, we aren't a particularly child friendly nation. We don't fare well on child rights.
12.47am BST	12.47am BST
00:47	00:47
Labor’s Indigenous MP, past and present, have weighed in.	Labor’s Indigenous MP, past and present, have weighed in.
Good. Now let's work together designing ToR that examine the broader issue, not just one center https://t.co/utftImek2Y	Good. Now let's work together designing ToR that examine the broader issue, not just one center https://t.co/utftImek2Y
Visited #DonDale & recidivism is an epidemic. No rehab programs for these children, the NT juvenile justice system is disgraceful #4Corners	Visited #DonDale & recidivism is an epidemic. No rehab programs for these children, the NT juvenile justice system is disgraceful #4Corners
12.46am BST	12.46am BST
00:46	00:46
If you missed Four Corners last night, here is the footage.	If you missed Four Corners last night, here is the footage.
12.38am BST	12.38am BST
00:38	00:38
I am the Minister for Corrections, not the minister for kicking the shit out of people.	I am the Minister for Corrections, not the minister for kicking the shit out of people.
That was the NT correctional services minister, John Elferink, responding to the Four Corners program.	That was the NT correctional services minister, John Elferink, responding to the Four Corners program.
Labor senator Pat Dodson said this morning that the NT attorney-general, or whoever was responsible for youth detention in the territory, should resign immediately. That call could include Elferink.	Labor senator Pat Dodson said this morning that the NT attorney-general, or whoever was responsible for youth detention in the territory, should resign immediately. That call could include Elferink.
Dodson was one of five commissioners in the 1991 Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, which celebrated, if such a word can be used for what was a rather depressing milestone, it’s 25th anniversary this year.	Dodson was one of five commissioners in the 1991 Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, which celebrated, if such a word can be used for what was a rather depressing milestone, it’s 25th anniversary this year.
He told the National Press Club, a few days before the anniversary, that the situation had gotten worse. The incarceration rate of Indigenous Australians has doubled since 1991.	He told the National Press Club, a few days before the anniversary, that the situation had gotten worse. The incarceration rate of Indigenous Australians has doubled since 1991.
For the vast bulk of our people, the legal system is not a trusted instrument of justice. It is a feared and despised processing plant that propels the most vulnerable and disabled of our people towards a broken, bleak future. Surely as a nation we are better than this. We need a smarter form of justice that takes us beyond a narrow-eyed focus on punishment and penalties.	For the vast bulk of our people, the legal system is not a trusted instrument of justice. It is a feared and despised processing plant that propels the most vulnerable and disabled of our people towards a broken, bleak future. Surely as a nation we are better than this. We need a smarter form of justice that takes us beyond a narrow-eyed focus on punishment and penalties.
Updated	Updated
at 12.42am BST	at 12.42am BST
12.30am BST	12.30am BST
00:30	00:30
Ben Wyatt responded to my question.	Ben Wyatt responded to my question.
@callapilla would prefer this RC to focus completely and utterly on the NT justice system as the Cth can effect more change there.	@callapilla would prefer this RC to focus completely and utterly on the NT justice system as the Cth can effect more change there.
12.29am BST	12.29am BST
00:29	00:29
Labor is ready to work with the govt on a RC into systemic failures in Indigenous incarceration.This national shame demands national action.	Labor is ready to work with the govt on a RC into systemic failures in Indigenous incarceration.This national shame demands national action.
12.26am BST	12.26am BST
00:26	00:26
Ben Wyatt, a Labor state MP from Western Australia, tweeted his thoughts on the royal commission this morning.	Ben Wyatt, a Labor state MP from Western Australia, tweeted his thoughts on the royal commission this morning.
Strong decision by the PM to appoint a RC into the NT justice abuses. No way the NT Govt could have been left to deal with this outrage.	Strong decision by the PM to appoint a RC into the NT justice abuses. No way the NT Govt could have been left to deal with this outrage.
I dare say the RC into the NT justice abuses will have to revisit the recommendations from the RC into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody.	I dare say the RC into the NT justice abuses will have to revisit the recommendations from the RC into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody.
WA actually has a higher rate of Indigenous youth imprisonment than the NT, on a population basis. According to a report by Amnesty International, released last year, Indigenous children aged 10 to 17 are 53 times more likely to be imprisoned than non-Indigenous children of the same age, compared to a national rate of Indigenous children being 26 times more likely to be imprisoned.	WA actually has a higher rate of Indigenous youth imprisonment than the NT, on a population basis. According to a report by Amnesty International, released last year, Indigenous children aged 10 to 17 are 53 times more likely to be imprisoned than non-Indigenous children of the same age, compared to a national rate of Indigenous children being 26 times more likely to be imprisoned.
A number of people have said this morning that the proposed royal commission should be expanded to include youth detention centres in WA and Queensland, where, it is alleged, children are also mistreated.	A number of people have said this morning that the proposed royal commission should be expanded to include youth detention centres in WA and Queensland, where, it is alleged, children are also mistreated.
Let's not forget the treatment of Aboriginal kids in WA either @njp_au #wapol #auspol https://t.co/SdVEZKDZZl	Let's not forget the treatment of Aboriginal kids in WA either @njp_au #wapol #auspol https://t.co/SdVEZKDZZl
I asked Ben if he would like to see the royal commission expanded to include WA. Will let you know if I get a response.	I asked Ben if he would like to see the royal commission expanded to include WA. Will let you know if I get a response.
@benwyatt Do you think the terms of reference should be expanded to include WA, Ben?	@benwyatt Do you think the terms of reference should be expanded to include WA, Ben?
12.18am BST	12.18am BST
00:18	00:18
Priscilla Collins, the chief executive of the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency (NAAJA), also says the government would have seen that footage before.	Priscilla Collins, the chief executive of the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency (NAAJA), also says the government would have seen that footage before.
.@Naaja_Darwin CEO tells @Kieran_Gilbert #AMAgenda that the NT Gov was aware of the vision before last night, "I've seen it a few years ago"	.@Naaja_Darwin CEO tells @Kieran_Gilbert #AMAgenda that the NT Gov was aware of the vision before last night, "I've seen it a few years ago"
.@Naaja_Darwin tells @Kieran_Gilbert, "Now [The NTG] are saying they're shocked and appalled, they can't be, they knew about these reports"	.@Naaja_Darwin tells @Kieran_Gilbert, "Now [The NTG] are saying they're shocked and appalled, they can't be, they knew about these reports"
12.16am BST	12.16am BST
00:16	00:16
But reading a report and seeing the footage, and hearing first hand accounts from the children involved, are very different things. Four Corners presenter Sarah Ferguson compared the images to footage from Guantánamo Bay or the Abu Ghraib.	But reading a report and seeing the footage, and hearing first hand accounts from the children involved, are very different things. Four Corners presenter Sarah Ferguson compared the images to footage from Guantánamo Bay or the Abu Ghraib.
The NT chief minister, Adam Giles, said yesterday that he was “shocked and disgusted” by the footage, and that “a community is judged by the way it treats its children and serious questions were raised”.	The NT chief minister, Adam Giles, said yesterday that he was “shocked and disgusted” by the footage, and that “a community is judged by the way it treats its children and serious questions were raised”.
He then said:	He then said:
Equally the Northern Territory government does not resile from its tough approach to those who don’t want to respect other people’s property or safety.	Equally the Northern Territory government does not resile from its tough approach to those who don’t want to respect other people’s property or safety.
Dr Howard Bath, the former NT children’s commissioner, told Radio National this morning that the “tough on crime” approach was part of the problem.	Dr Howard Bath, the former NT children’s commissioner, told Radio National this morning that the “tough on crime” approach was part of the problem.
12.10am BST	12.10am BST
00:10	00:10
That report into Don Dale was fairly widely reported.	That report into Don Dale was fairly widely reported.
Look at the dateline. The events have been known to the system for more than nine months. https://t.co/CpMD6pt7i7 pic.twitter.com/mWkQxbtFFo	Look at the dateline. The events have been known to the system for more than nine months. https://t.co/CpMD6pt7i7 pic.twitter.com/mWkQxbtFFo
12.09am BST	12.09am BST
00:09	00:09
Let’s look at a bit of background. My colleague, Helen Davidson, wrote about the treatment of children at Don Dale detention centre in October last year, as part of a broader look at Aboriginal children in detention in the NT.	Let’s look at a bit of background. My colleague, Helen Davidson, wrote about the treatment of children at Don Dale detention centre in October last year, as part of a broader look at Aboriginal children in detention in the NT.
Her report mentioned the tear gassing incident, which was detailed in a government report.	Her report mentioned the tear gassing incident, which was detailed in a government report.
She writes:	She writes:
Jail and youth detention statistics in Australia paint a wearily familiar picture of Indigenous disadvantage but in the territory they are catastrophic.	Jail and youth detention statistics in Australia paint a wearily familiar picture of Indigenous disadvantage but in the territory they are catastrophic.
Its imprisonment rate is massively disproportionate to the rest of the country – 838.3 for every 100,000 compared with 187.3 nationally in 2013-14. The over-representation of Indigenous juveniles nationally – 24 times the rate of the general population – is magnified in the territory, where about 96% of the incarcerated population is Indigenous.	Its imprisonment rate is massively disproportionate to the rest of the country – 838.3 for every 100,000 compared with 187.3 nationally in 2013-14. The over-representation of Indigenous juveniles nationally – 24 times the rate of the general population – is magnified in the territory, where about 96% of the incarcerated population is Indigenous.
You can read Helen’s full piece here.	You can read Helen’s full piece here.
12.03am BST	12.03am BST
00:03	00:03
Dr Howard Bath, the former Northern Territory children’s commissioner, has told Radio National that politicians and senior members of the Department of Corrections would have seen the footage of children being tear-gassed at Don Dale detention centre before the Four Corners report aired.	Dr Howard Bath, the former Northern Territory children’s commissioner, has told Radio National that politicians and senior members of the Department of Corrections would have seen the footage of children being tear-gassed at Don Dale detention centre before the Four Corners report aired.
That’s a significant allegation, because both the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and the NT chief minister, Adam Giles, said this morning that a royal commission was necessary to examine why revelations about this kind of treatment of detainees was not included in previous government reports.	That’s a significant allegation, because both the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and the NT chief minister, Adam Giles, said this morning that a royal commission was necessary to examine why revelations about this kind of treatment of detainees was not included in previous government reports.
First to footage of incidents prior to the tear gassing incident in August 2014. How does Bath know people saw the footage?	First to footage of incidents prior to the tear gassing incident in August 2014. How does Bath know people saw the footage?
Bath: “I showed them the videos.”	Bath: “I showed them the videos.”
Ellen Fanning: “And who did you show?”	Ellen Fanning: “And who did you show?”
Bath: “Senior officers from the department at the time.”	Bath: “Senior officers from the department at the time.”
What about the footage of the August 2014 tear gassing incident, recorded in official reports as a “riot”?	What about the footage of the August 2014 tear gassing incident, recorded in official reports as a “riot”?
Fanning: “Was there any additional footage presented on 4 corners last night that NT elected officials and NT bureaucrats didn’t know about?”	Fanning: “Was there any additional footage presented on 4 corners last night that NT elected officials and NT bureaucrats didn’t know about?”
Bath: “As far as I know, no.”	Bath: “As far as I know, no.”
Bath continued:	Bath continued:
Most of the material that you saw last night on Four Corners was available to the government.	Most of the material that you saw last night on Four Corners was available to the government.
11.49pm BST	11.49pm BST
23:49	23:49
Calla Wahlquist	Calla Wahlquist
Malcolm Turnbull has announced a royal commission into youth detention in the Northern Territory, focusing on the Don Dale detention centre, after a Four Corners report showing shocking footage of children being tear gassed, restrained, and kept in solitary confinement aired last night.	Malcolm Turnbull has announced a royal commission into youth detention in the Northern Territory, focusing on the Don Dale detention centre, after a Four Corners report showing shocking footage of children being tear gassed, restrained, and kept in solitary confinement aired last night.
It has been broadly welcomed, but there are a number of questions kicking around this morning. Namely: what took the government so long?	It has been broadly welcomed, but there are a number of questions kicking around this morning. Namely: what took the government so long?

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