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| Owen Smith: Labour leadership more crucial than my NI peace role | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| “I’ll have a bacon sandwich,” says Owen Smith, perking up as he walks into a Birmingham cafe for a quick bite to eat. “And you can film it,” he adds with a laugh – in reference to that unflattering snap of Ed Miliband. | “I’ll have a bacon sandwich,” says Owen Smith, perking up as he walks into a Birmingham cafe for a quick bite to eat. “And you can film it,” he adds with a laugh – in reference to that unflattering snap of Ed Miliband. |
| The former BBC journalist (who actually goes on to opt for beef with the camera switched off) looks a little tired after eight weeks of relentless campaigning for the Labour leadership. | The former BBC journalist (who actually goes on to opt for beef with the camera switched off) looks a little tired after eight weeks of relentless campaigning for the Labour leadership. |
| This day in Birmingham follows a now regular pattern for Smith: a members’ meeting in the evening (there have been almost 60 in total) after a day of fact-finding in constituencies about the issues a Labour government would hope to address. | This day in Birmingham follows a now regular pattern for Smith: a members’ meeting in the evening (there have been almost 60 in total) after a day of fact-finding in constituencies about the issues a Labour government would hope to address. |
| Smith says he is determined to carry on at the same rate even in the face of polling (“one poll”, he stresses) that suggests he is on track to lose, perhaps badly. | Smith says he is determined to carry on at the same rate even in the face of polling (“one poll”, he stresses) that suggests he is on track to lose, perhaps badly. |
| “Loads of people haven’t voted, I think it is all to play for,” he says, slightly raising his voice. | “Loads of people haven’t voted, I think it is all to play for,” he says, slightly raising his voice. |
| His team insists that its own data from phone banks offers a very different outlook on the race, and believes that even in these final few days undecided voters could still swing the result. | His team insists that its own data from phone banks offers a very different outlook on the race, and believes that even in these final few days undecided voters could still swing the result. |
| For Smith, it has been a sometimes “lonely” pursuit, away from his wife, Liz, and their three children, and not always surrounded by MPs, many of whom took the opportunity of a break during the summer months. | For Smith, it has been a sometimes “lonely” pursuit, away from his wife, Liz, and their three children, and not always surrounded by MPs, many of whom took the opportunity of a break during the summer months. |
| But he doesn’t hold back in arguing that it was worth it, claiming that he sees this attempt to oust Jeremy Corbyn as the most critical job of his working life. | But he doesn’t hold back in arguing that it was worth it, claiming that he sees this attempt to oust Jeremy Corbyn as the most critical job of his working life. |
| Asked about putting himself forward for this leadership contest, Smith said: “I always thought this was the most important thing I’d ever do, having previously worked on the [Northern Ireland] peace process and thought that was the most important thing I’d ever do.” | Asked about putting himself forward for this leadership contest, Smith said: “I always thought this was the most important thing I’d ever do, having previously worked on the [Northern Ireland] peace process and thought that was the most important thing I’d ever do.” |
| Smith worked for Labour’s Paul Murphy as a special adviser from 2002-05, first while Murphy was Welsh secretary, then following him when he became the Northern Ireland secretary during the peace process. Now a peer, Lord Murphy has described his former aide as having been his “right-hand man” during “hugely difficult times”, and as someone who understood the complexities of the negotiations. | Smith worked for Labour’s Paul Murphy as a special adviser from 2002-05, first while Murphy was Welsh secretary, then following him when he became the Northern Ireland secretary during the peace process. Now a peer, Lord Murphy has described his former aide as having been his “right-hand man” during “hugely difficult times”, and as someone who understood the complexities of the negotiations. |
| Smith said his challenge now was stark. “In jeopardy right now is the future of the Labour party. Without a Labour party that is able to speak for this country we run the risk of there not being a progressive government of any sort.” | Smith said his challenge now was stark. “In jeopardy right now is the future of the Labour party. Without a Labour party that is able to speak for this country we run the risk of there not being a progressive government of any sort.” |
| That, says Smith, is already allowing Theresa May to “run amok with some of the more outlandish rightwing policies they’ve been dreaming of for years … Not even Thatcher dared to bring back grammar schools.” | That, says Smith, is already allowing Theresa May to “run amok with some of the more outlandish rightwing policies they’ve been dreaming of for years … Not even Thatcher dared to bring back grammar schools.” |
| He says the Conservative party is now presiding over an economy with more than 1m zero-hours contracts, and growing hospital waiting lists. | He says the Conservative party is now presiding over an economy with more than 1m zero-hours contracts, and growing hospital waiting lists. |
| But what is his evidence that Corbyn can’t provide the necessary leadership in opposition? And even if that proves compelling, was nine months really enough time before MPs tried to oust a politician elected by the party’s membership? | But what is his evidence that Corbyn can’t provide the necessary leadership in opposition? And even if that proves compelling, was nine months really enough time before MPs tried to oust a politician elected by the party’s membership? |
| “I wasn’t in favour of there being a challenge,” says Smith quickly. “But once a challenge had been made then I felt I needed to stand because I felt that I had something to say about the future of the Labour party, and a lot of other people in the PLP [parliamentary Labour party] felt that about me, which is why they asked me to stand.” | “I wasn’t in favour of there being a challenge,” says Smith quickly. “But once a challenge had been made then I felt I needed to stand because I felt that I had something to say about the future of the Labour party, and a lot of other people in the PLP [parliamentary Labour party] felt that about me, which is why they asked me to stand.” |
| So Smith would have preferred to see Corbyn allowed to carry on for longer? | So Smith would have preferred to see Corbyn allowed to carry on for longer? |
| “Yes, is the honest answer,” he says. | “Yes, is the honest answer,” he says. |
| Not that this is an admission of regret about his bid to topple the sitting leader. | Not that this is an admission of regret about his bid to topple the sitting leader. |
| “The truth is, things weren’t going well, things aren’t going well. Nine months may be a short period of time but it’s a period of time in which the Labour party has gone backwards,” he says. “We are at a lower ebb than we’ve been in the polls at any time since 1982, and we’re six years into a Tory government and right now they are unfettered, they feel able to act with total impunity.” | “The truth is, things weren’t going well, things aren’t going well. Nine months may be a short period of time but it’s a period of time in which the Labour party has gone backwards,” he says. “We are at a lower ebb than we’ve been in the polls at any time since 1982, and we’re six years into a Tory government and right now they are unfettered, they feel able to act with total impunity.” |
| The MP for Pontypridd says Labour’s poor position is the result of Corbyn’s weak leadership. But the leader’s team thinks that is unfair, blaming the party’s current polling on the destabilising contest. | The MP for Pontypridd says Labour’s poor position is the result of Corbyn’s weak leadership. But the leader’s team thinks that is unfair, blaming the party’s current polling on the destabilising contest. |
| Shaking his head and looking irritated, Smith talks about the situation before the EU referendum, which acted as a catalyst for the leadership contest. “He was behind on 85 out of 89 polls. Just pause on that for a minute, because Jeremy supporters and Jeremy keep suggesting he was ahead; he wasn’t.” | Shaking his head and looking irritated, Smith talks about the situation before the EU referendum, which acted as a catalyst for the leadership contest. “He was behind on 85 out of 89 polls. Just pause on that for a minute, because Jeremy supporters and Jeremy keep suggesting he was ahead; he wasn’t.” |
| The night before this interview, Smith was at a hustings 100 miles away. He then arrived in Birmingham for an early meeting with care workers in the GMB union, followed by a session at an NHS walk-in centre, and then a photocall with the local MP, Jack Dromey, gripping hold of a lollipop warden’s stop sign to highlight a cut in their numbers. | The night before this interview, Smith was at a hustings 100 miles away. He then arrived in Birmingham for an early meeting with care workers in the GMB union, followed by a session at an NHS walk-in centre, and then a photocall with the local MP, Jack Dromey, gripping hold of a lollipop warden’s stop sign to highlight a cut in their numbers. |
| His campaign style is in stark contrast to that of Corbyn, with a more professional but perhaps occasionally staid feel. | His campaign style is in stark contrast to that of Corbyn, with a more professional but perhaps occasionally staid feel. |
| A Corbyn rally in Ramsgate has bands playing in advance and speakers standing on top of the leader’s signature fire engine warming up the crowd by getting them to shout “JC, JC”. | A Corbyn rally in Ramsgate has bands playing in advance and speakers standing on top of the leader’s signature fire engine warming up the crowd by getting them to shout “JC, JC”. |
| In central Birmingham, Smith ends his day at a smart conference space, with pots of tea and water lined up on tables, and members seated in long rows of chairs. Dromey is on standby to gee up the activists, who overwhelmingly support Smith but aren’t about to start chanting his name. | In central Birmingham, Smith ends his day at a smart conference space, with pots of tea and water lined up on tables, and members seated in long rows of chairs. Dromey is on standby to gee up the activists, who overwhelmingly support Smith but aren’t about to start chanting his name. |
| There is a mantra, however, from the Erdington MP, who repeatedly punctuates his warmup address with the same four words: “We have to win … we have to win … we have to win.” | There is a mantra, however, from the Erdington MP, who repeatedly punctuates his warmup address with the same four words: “We have to win … we have to win … we have to win.” |
| Dromey’s voice becomes charged as he turns to the subject of Corbyn’s popularity. “Don’t anyone tell me about rallies,” the MP booms. “I organised the people’s march for jobs in 1981.” | Dromey’s voice becomes charged as he turns to the subject of Corbyn’s popularity. “Don’t anyone tell me about rallies,” the MP booms. “I organised the people’s march for jobs in 1981.” |
| To loud applause, he argues that Michael Foot, the then Labour leader, attracted crowds of 20,000 but still oversaw Labour’s “crushing defeat” which saw the Conservatives take a 144-seat majority. “Without power we can’t put our principles into effect.” | To loud applause, he argues that Michael Foot, the then Labour leader, attracted crowds of 20,000 but still oversaw Labour’s “crushing defeat” which saw the Conservatives take a 144-seat majority. “Without power we can’t put our principles into effect.” |
| This is the argument for Smith boiled down into a snapshot: the idea driving the “Saving Labour” campaign – with the help of some high-profile supporters, such as the author JK Rowling – that Labour is unelectable under the current leadership. | This is the argument for Smith boiled down into a snapshot: the idea driving the “Saving Labour” campaign – with the help of some high-profile supporters, such as the author JK Rowling – that Labour is unelectable under the current leadership. |
| After Dromey comes Laura McWilliams, who joined the party to back Corbyn before being persuaded to switch allegiances to Smith after watching him in “awe”. | After Dromey comes Laura McWilliams, who joined the party to back Corbyn before being persuaded to switch allegiances to Smith after watching him in “awe”. |
| Passion spills from the voice of this effervescent and likeable woman, whose friends have told her that no one will vote for a Labour party led by Corbyn. | Passion spills from the voice of this effervescent and likeable woman, whose friends have told her that no one will vote for a Labour party led by Corbyn. |
| And it is the same message with which Smith himself bounds out to a standing ovation, dressed in smart grey trousers and a white shirt, with his sleeves rolled up. | And it is the same message with which Smith himself bounds out to a standing ovation, dressed in smart grey trousers and a white shirt, with his sleeves rolled up. |
| Speaking to the Guardian again, Smith wants to keep to a message about the campaign and his efforts to win, but he knows he also has to look beyond Saturday’s result. | Speaking to the Guardian again, Smith wants to keep to a message about the campaign and his efforts to win, but he knows he also has to look beyond Saturday’s result. |
| If he wins, Smith has promised a “shadow” shadow cabinet made up of members, alongside the one with MPs, and more powers for party conference. | If he wins, Smith has promised a “shadow” shadow cabinet made up of members, alongside the one with MPs, and more powers for party conference. |
| But if, as that poll heavily predicts, he loses, then what? As fellow MPs are divided over whether or not to serve under Corbyn, will Smith urge his party to get behind him? | But if, as that poll heavily predicts, he loses, then what? As fellow MPs are divided over whether or not to serve under Corbyn, will Smith urge his party to get behind him? |
| “That is a question for Jeremy more than it is a question for the party,” he says. “It will be then for him to lead the party, unite the party, build a programme.” | “That is a question for Jeremy more than it is a question for the party,” he says. “It will be then for him to lead the party, unite the party, build a programme.” |
| But the MP says he is unconvinced, having seen Corbyn disengaged and “not really opposing the Tories with anything like the vigour he should have done”. | But the MP says he is unconvinced, having seen Corbyn disengaged and “not really opposing the Tories with anything like the vigour he should have done”. |
| Smith gives the example of himself, as the shadow welfare secretary, charged with taking the fight to the Conservatives on tax credits and disability benefits. | Smith gives the example of himself, as the shadow welfare secretary, charged with taking the fight to the Conservatives on tax credits and disability benefits. |
| “I’ve not been invited to a single policy meeting with Jeremy in the last year, not one,” he says, adding that he organised the only one-to-one session he had with Corbyn to update him on his work. | “I’ve not been invited to a single policy meeting with Jeremy in the last year, not one,” he says, adding that he organised the only one-to-one session he had with Corbyn to update him on his work. |
| “I don’t think Jeremy is a leader, he is someone who is used to being a lone voice, and protester.” | “I don’t think Jeremy is a leader, he is someone who is used to being a lone voice, and protester.” |
| Smith turns to the leader’s closest ally, John McDonnell, who has become more vocal about the actions of MPs. | Smith turns to the leader’s closest ally, John McDonnell, who has become more vocal about the actions of MPs. |
| “I think John is someone who is increasingly a divisive force in the Labour party,” he says of the shadow chancellor. “I think he is a talented politician in many regards, and some of the things he’s said about the economy are right. But I think he thinks, unlike me, that the Labour party is just one vehicle. And he can imagine a world in which the Labour party falls away and something else takes its place.” | “I think John is someone who is increasingly a divisive force in the Labour party,” he says of the shadow chancellor. “I think he is a talented politician in many regards, and some of the things he’s said about the economy are right. But I think he thinks, unlike me, that the Labour party is just one vehicle. And he can imagine a world in which the Labour party falls away and something else takes its place.” |
| Smith is clear about the argument he wants to articulate, but he knows he has let himself down by his choice of words on more than one occasion. He looks sheepish and a little ashamed about the impact of his suggestion that he would like to “smash” Theresa May back on her “heels”. | Smith is clear about the argument he wants to articulate, but he knows he has let himself down by his choice of words on more than one occasion. He looks sheepish and a little ashamed about the impact of his suggestion that he would like to “smash” Theresa May back on her “heels”. |
| “The language I’ve used on a couple of occasions has been crass and ugly, and I’ve learned through this that language matters incredibly much. And even if your policies are right then you can undermine them and yourself very easily, especially in a contest that has been as sharply fought and observed as this one.” | “The language I’ve used on a couple of occasions has been crass and ugly, and I’ve learned through this that language matters incredibly much. And even if your policies are right then you can undermine them and yourself very easily, especially in a contest that has been as sharply fought and observed as this one.” |
| The MP insists he is not sexist and says he has tried to counter this impression by focusing on his campaign pledges to address “Tory cuts that rained down on women more than anybody else”, force the government to back down on tax credits and place services that address violence against women and girls on a statutory footing. | The MP insists he is not sexist and says he has tried to counter this impression by focusing on his campaign pledges to address “Tory cuts that rained down on women more than anybody else”, force the government to back down on tax credits and place services that address violence against women and girls on a statutory footing. |
| “But the truth is some people have wanted to go away with the impression that I’m sexist, and others will inadvertently go away with that impression and I have to live with that.” | “But the truth is some people have wanted to go away with the impression that I’m sexist, and others will inadvertently go away with that impression and I have to live with that.” |
| On Saturday, Smith will also have to live with the result of a leadership battle that has been long and bruising, and which will have major implications for the future of the Labour party and his political career. | On Saturday, Smith will also have to live with the result of a leadership battle that has been long and bruising, and which will have major implications for the future of the Labour party and his political career. |