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Tim Kaine and Mike Pence Clash on the Merits of Their Tickets Tim Kaine and Mike Pence Clash on the Merits of Their Tickets
(35 minutes later)
Senator Tim Kaine and Gov. Mike Pence repeatedly threw each other on the defensive over their running mates’ policies and character at the vice-presidential debate on Tuesday night, with Mr. Pence scrambling at times to keep up with near-constant attacks on Donald J. Trump’s fitness for the presidency. FARMVILLE, Va. Senator Tim Kaine and Gov. Mike Pence repeatedly threw each other on the defensive over their running mates’ policies and character at the vice-presidential debate on Tuesday night, with Mr. Pence making little effort to directly rebut the near-constant attacks on Donald J. Trump’s fitness for the presidency.
Mr. Kaine was far more aggressive from the start, using a question about his own qualifications to praise Hillary Clinton at length and then declare, “The thought of Donald Trump as commander in chief scares us to death.” Mr. Kaine, trained as a litigator, frequently used this tactic of turning questions about himself and Mrs. Clinton into opportunities to extol his running mate and assail Mr. Trump. Mr. Kaine was far more aggressive from the start, answering a question about his own qualifications with lengthy praise for Hillary Clinton and a declaration that “the thought of Donald Trump as commander in chief scares us to death.” Mr. Kaine, trained as a litigator, frequently used this tactic of turning questions about himself and Mrs. Clinton into opportunities to extol his running mate and assail Mr. Trump.
“I can’t imagine how Governor Pence can defend the insult-driven, me-first style of Donald Trump,” Mr. Kaine said after noting that Mr. Trump had once described Mexicans as “rapists” and questioned President Obama’s citizenship.“I can’t imagine how Governor Pence can defend the insult-driven, me-first style of Donald Trump,” Mr. Kaine said after noting that Mr. Trump had once described Mexicans as “rapists” and questioned President Obama’s citizenship.
Mr. Pence, more formal and mild-mannered than his rival, seemed frustrated by the fusillade coming from Mr. Kaine. The Republican often looked down and shook his head slightly in the face of the attacks on Mr. Trump, while Mr. Kaine tended to interrupt and talk over Mr. Pence. Mr. Pence, more formal and mild-mannered than his rival, seemed frustrated by the fusillade coming from Mr. Kaine. He often looked down and shook his head slightly in the face of the attacks on Mr. Trump, while Mr. Kaine tended to interrupt and talk over Mr. Pence.
But at other points he showed a deftness that Mr. Trump often lacked at his own debate last week. But at other points he showed a deftness that Mr. Trump often lacked at his own debate last week. And he also offered voters a face of the Republican Party that was not overly dark or angry, as Mr. Trump has often been in this race.
“Senator, you and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign,” Mr. Pence said. “The campaign of Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine has been an avalanche of insults.”“Senator, you and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign,” Mr. Pence said. “The campaign of Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine has been an avalanche of insults.”
From Mr. Trump’s proposals for cutting taxes and repealing the Affordable Care Act to “ending the war on coal,” a phrase he repeated several times, Mr. Pence tried to describe Mr. Trump’s views in ways intended to energize social conservatives, working-class white voters and other Republicans while delivering a measured performance that might appeal to undecided voters who are wary of Mr. Trump’s fiery and unpredictable temperament.From Mr. Trump’s proposals for cutting taxes and repealing the Affordable Care Act to “ending the war on coal,” a phrase he repeated several times, Mr. Pence tried to describe Mr. Trump’s views in ways intended to energize social conservatives, working-class white voters and other Republicans while delivering a measured performance that might appeal to undecided voters who are wary of Mr. Trump’s fiery and unpredictable temperament.
He also hammered Mrs. Clinton over her description of Trump supporters as a “basket of deplorables,” the Obama administration’s foreign policy, and the Clinton Foundation’s acceptance of contributions from foreign countries while she was secretary of state all issues that are popular with Republicans, but ones that Mr. Trump failed to raise at the first presidential debate. Neither candidate made significant errors through the night, meeting the baseline test of not doing any harm to the top of the ticket. Of the two, Mr. Kaine appeared far different from his usual self: He has been a more mellow debater in the past, a sign that the Clinton campaign trained him to be an attack dog on Tuesday.
Mr. Kaine aimed his political message squarely at minorities by regularly mentioning Mr. Trump’s attacks on Hispanics and illegal immigrants, and at women by noting Mr. Trump’s recent insults against a former Miss Universe who had gained weight soon after winning the pageant. Mr. Kaine argued that Mr. Trump was incapable of expressing regret or admitting he was wrong, which he described as dubious traits for a president. Mr. Pence had his strongest moments during a lengthy exchange over abortion rights, as he excoriated Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Kaine for supporting laws that allowed what opponents call “partial-birth abortions.” He also argued that Mr. Kaine, a Catholic who personally opposes abortion, had bent his own views to support Mrs. Clinton’s positions on abortion.
“Did Donald Trump apologize for taking after somebody in a Twitter war and making fun of her weight? Did he apologize for saying African-Americans are living in hell?” Mr. Kaine said. “Did he apologize for saying President Obama was not even a citizen of the United States? You will look in vain to see Donald Trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing.” “The very idea that a child that is almost born into the world could still have their life taken from them is just anathema to me,” Mr. Pence said.
But Mr. Kaine, who rarely if ever ceded a debating point through the 90-minute event, insisted that a candidate’s faith should not dictate policy. “It is not the role of the public servant to mandate that for everyone else,” Mr. Kaine said. “The very last thing the government should do is punish women who make reproductive choices,” referring to a comment that Mr. Trump made on MSNBC months ago.
“Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that would punish women who made the heartbreaking choice,” Mr. Pence said. When Mr. Kaine reminded Mr. Pence of Mr. Trump’s statement to the contrary, Mr. Pence stammered.
“Look, he’s not a polished politician like you and Hillary Clinton,” he said.
Mr. Pence alternated between ignoring Mr. Trump’s inflammatory comments and making it clear that he had a different view on some issues. He repeatedly offered tough talk about Vladimir V. Putin’s government in Moscow, for example, even though Mr. Trump has repeatedly praised the Russian leader.
“The Russian bear never dies, it just hibernates,” Mr. Pence said, evoking Reagan-era imagery.
Mr. Kaine sought to box in the Republicans, saying, “You’ve got to be tough on Russia, so let’s start by not praising Vladimir Putin as a great leader.”
“We haven’t,” Mr. Pence protested, even though he himself said on CNN last month that Mr. Putin was “a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country.” But Mr. Pence during the debate flatly denied making that remark.
Mr. Pence’s refusal to justify or explain Mr. Trump’s past remarks in any detail drew withering fire from Mr. Kaine late in the debate.
“Six times tonight I have said to Governor Pence, ‘I can’t imagine how you can defend your running mate’s position on one issue after the next,’ and in all six cases he’s refused to defend his running mate,” Mr. Kaine said. “And yet he is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend.”
“I’m happy to defend him,” Mr. Pence said, but then spent more time assailing Mrs. Clinton over the civil war in Syria and the Iran nuclear deal.
Mr. Pence said “Oh, come on” and “Oh, that’s nonsense” over and over again, but that did not seem to halt Mr. Kaine’s steady assault on Mr. Trump. At one point Mr. Pence acknowledged that he was “just trying to keep up” with Mr. Kaine’s attacks, while the Democrat shot back that he was simply using Mr. Trump’s own words against the Republican ticket. At another point, when Mr. Kaine suggested that even Ronald Reagan would find Mr. Trump unacceptable, Mr. Pence seemed almost at a loss for words.
“Senator, that was even beneath and you and Hillary Clinton — and that’s pretty low,” Mr. Pence said.
And when Mr. Kaine, for a fourth time, brought up Mr. Trump’s assertion in his presidential announcement speech last year that Mexican migrants are “criminals and rapists,” Mr. Pence flashed irritation. “Senator, you whipped out that Mexican thing again,” he said.
“Can you defend it?” Mr. Kaine interjected.
“There are criminal aliens in this country, Tim,” Mr. Pence said, calling Mr. Kaine by his first name for the first time all night.
In one of several moments when the candidates tried to appeal to their own distinct voting blocs, Mr. Pence attempted to drive a wedge between the Democrats’ African-American base and up-for-grabs white voters, targeting Mrs. Clinton for what he said was her practice of “bad-mouthing cops.”In one of several moments when the candidates tried to appeal to their own distinct voting blocs, Mr. Pence attempted to drive a wedge between the Democrats’ African-American base and up-for-grabs white voters, targeting Mrs. Clinton for what he said was her practice of “bad-mouthing cops.”
“Enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly,” Mr. Pence said.“Enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly,” Mr. Pence said.
Mr. Kaine argued that there is “implicit bias” in policing, a phrase Mrs. Clinton has echoed from the Black Lives Matter movement.Mr. Kaine argued that there is “implicit bias” in policing, a phrase Mrs. Clinton has echoed from the Black Lives Matter movement.
“If you’re afraid to bring up the issue you’ll never solve it,” he said.“If you’re afraid to bring up the issue you’ll never solve it,” he said.
While vice-presidential candidates use their debates to promote and defend their running mates, Mr. Pence had the heavier political burden on Tuesday after a weeklong barrage of outbursts from Mr. Trump that renewed questions about his temperament and his ability to win in November.
Mr. Kaine aimed his political message squarely at minorities by regularly mentioning Mr. Trump’s attacks on Hispanics and illegal immigrants, and at women by noting Mr. Trump’s recent insults against a former Miss Universe who had gained weight soon after winning the pageant. Mr. Kaine argued that Mr. Trump was incapable of expressing regret or admitting he was wrong, which he described as dubious traits for a president.
“Did Donald Trump apologize for taking after somebody in a Twitter war and making fun of her weight? Did he apologize for saying African-Americans are living in hell?” Mr. Kaine said. “Did he apologize for saying President Obama was not even a citizen of the United States? You will look in vain to see Donald Trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing.”
Mr. Pence sought to deflect questions about Mr. Trump’s failure to release his tax returns by noting how many jobs the hotel developer had created, and he defended Mr. Trump’s use of the tax code to claim a $916 million loss that may have helped him avoid paying federal income taxes for nearly 20 years.Mr. Pence sought to deflect questions about Mr. Trump’s failure to release his tax returns by noting how many jobs the hotel developer had created, and he defended Mr. Trump’s use of the tax code to claim a $916 million loss that may have helped him avoid paying federal income taxes for nearly 20 years.
Mr. Trump’s finances came under scrutiny over the weekend after The New York Times obtained three pages of his previously unreleased tax records showing the loss on his 1995 returns. The Trump campaign alternately threatened to sue over the revelations and portrayed Mr. Trump as a “genius” for his use of the tax code.
“Donald Trump is a businessman, not a career politician,” Mr. Pence said. “Those tax returns showed that he faced some pretty tough times.”“Donald Trump is a businessman, not a career politician,” Mr. Pence said. “Those tax returns showed that he faced some pretty tough times.”
“But why won’t he release his tax returns?” Mr. Kaine interjected. He repeatedly broke in when Mr. Pence made claims about Mr. Trump’s undisclosed tax returns, demanding: “How do you know?” “But why won’t he release his tax returns?” Mr. Kaine said interjected.
And Mr. Kaine pointedly observed that his counterpart had shared his own taxes with Mr. Trump.
“Governor Pence had to give Donald Trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president,” he said. “Donald Trump must give the American people his tax returns to show he’s qualified to be president.”
After repeated questions, Mr. Pence eventually said, “He’s going to release his tax returns when the audit is over,” citing Mr. Trump’s longstanding rationale for not disclosing the information.After repeated questions, Mr. Pence eventually said, “He’s going to release his tax returns when the audit is over,” citing Mr. Trump’s longstanding rationale for not disclosing the information.
The moderator, Elaine Quijano of CBS News, lost control of the debate at several points as Mr. Kaine trampled on Mr. Pence’s two-minute answers and the governor grappled with taking control of the exchanges. For her part, Ms. Quijano kept her questions focused on policy and asked far more questions about foreign policy than came up at the first presidential debate. The moderator, Elaine Quijano of CBS News, lost control of the debate at several points as Mr. Kaine trampled on Mr. Pence’s two-minute answers and the governor grappled with taking control of the exchanges.
The debate held little of the anticipation that preceded the 2008 encounter between Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Sarah Palin, when Ms. Palin’s knowledge about the basics of foreign affairs and domestic policy were in question, or the 1988 face-off between two senators, Lloyd Bentsen and Dan Quayle, who had vastly different levels of experience and expertise.
The Pence-Kaine debate had more of the feel of the 2012 one between Mr. Biden and Representative Paul D. Ryan, who were also seen as more evenly matched. And like Mr. Pence, Mr. Biden found himself trying to repair some of the political damage from Mr. Obama’s sluggish and bad-humored performance in the earlier first debate against Mitt Romney. Mr. Biden came on hot but performed well; ultimately, though, it was Mr. Obama’s stronger performance in his second debate that shored up the Democratic ticket.
Any influence that Mr. Pence and Mr. Kaine may have on the race is limited by two factors. They remain unknown among many voters: roughly one-third say that they have no opinion or have never heard of the two men, according to polls. And, more broadly, the 2016 race is shaped almost entirely by views of the two polarizing household names atop the tickets.
Mr. Kaine used a discussion of foreign policy to unleash a torrent of attacks on Mr. Trump for his breezy comments on nuclear weapons and praise for a series of authoritarian strongmen.Mr. Kaine used a discussion of foreign policy to unleash a torrent of attacks on Mr. Trump for his breezy comments on nuclear weapons and praise for a series of authoritarian strongmen.
“He loves dictators, he’s got kind of a personal Mount Rushmore,” said the senator, citing President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, and Saddam Hussein and Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, the former dictators of Iraq and Libya. “He loves dictators, he’s got kind of a personal Mount Rushmore,” said the senator, citing leaders like Mr. Putin and Kim Jong-un of North Korea.
Mr. Pence sidestepped Mr. Kaine’s criticism, instead mocking his rival for lobbing a rehearsed attack. “Did you work on that one a long time?” Mr. Pence deadpanned.Mr. Pence sidestepped Mr. Kaine’s criticism, instead mocking his rival for lobbing a rehearsed attack. “Did you work on that one a long time?” Mr. Pence deadpanned.
“Let’s see if you can defend any of it,” Mr. Kaine shot back. Mr. Pence made no attempt to do so, instead using his response to target Mrs. Clinton for the rise of the Islamic State. “Let’s see if you can defend any of it,” Mr. Kaine shot back.
“America is less safe than the day Barack Obama became president of the United States,” the governor said. But Mr. Pence made no real attempt to do so.
While vice-presidential candidates always use their debates to promote and defend their running mates, Mr. Pence had the heavier political burden on Tuesday after a weeklong barrage of outbursts from Mr. Trump that renewed questions about his temperament and his ability to win in November.
Mr. Trump did Mr. Pence no favors by delivering a widely panned debate performance against Mrs. Clinton last week in which he skimmed over some policy specifics and misstated others.
Mrs. Clinton was particularly effective in baiting Mr. Trump over his past insults of women, which led him to try to justify once calling the comedian Rosie O’Donnell a “pig” and a “slob” and describing a past Miss Universe as “Miss Piggy.”
Mr. Trump’s finances came under scrutiny over the weekend after The New York Times obtained three pages of his previously unreleased tax records showing a $916 million loss on his 1995 returns that may have allowed him to avoid paying federal income taxes for nearly two decades. The Trump campaign alternately threatened to sue over the revelations and portrayed Mr. Trump as a “genius” for his use of the tax code.
The stormy week lifted Mrs. Clinton’s standing in several new national and swing-state polls. As a result, Mr. Pence was under pressure to make a case for Mr. Trump’s ideas while trying to explain or minimize some of his recent remarks.
The debate expectations for Mr. Pence did not mean Mr. Kaine would get off easy, however. Mrs. Clinton is nearly as unpopular as Mr. Trump, with both candidates still viewed unfavorably by majorities of likely voters, according to recent polls.
Mrs. Clinton has been battling questions about her honesty and trustworthiness since she started running for president in April 2015, amid revelations about her private email server and the disclosure that she had deleted more than 30,000 messages from her tenure as secretary of state because she deemed them personal.
Before the debate even started, officials at the Republican National Committee jumped the gun by accidentally publishing news releases on its website declaring that Mr. Pence was “the clear winner of the debate,” based on his comments about the economy and “Hillary’s scandals,” and decreeing that Mrs. Clinton was “tonight’s biggest loser.”
The face-off between Mr. Kaine and Mr. Pence also offered a glimpse of a more conventional political campaign between two buttoned-up and graying white men.
Both are longtime officeholders and disciplined public speakers. Neither projects much charisma, but they are experienced debaters who know how to redirect questions for their own advantage. Both arrived in Farmville, Va., aiming to do exactly that, determined to use their own brief moment in the political spotlight to raise questions less about each other than about Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton.