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| Version 1 | Version 2 |
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| Call to keep father role in IVF | Call to keep father role in IVF |
| (40 minutes later) | |
| Plans to scrap the need for a father as well as a mother in couples seeking IVF treatment are "utter nonsense", ex-Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith says. | Plans to scrap the need for a father as well as a mother in couples seeking IVF treatment are "utter nonsense", ex-Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith says. |
| He told MPs the absence of a father had "a detrimental effect" on the child. | He told MPs the absence of a father had "a detrimental effect" on the child. |
| At present, IVF clinics have to consider the "welfare" of any child created, which means considering the need for a father. | At present, IVF clinics have to consider the "welfare" of any child created, which means considering the need for a father. |
| But the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill puts the focus instead on "supportive parenting". | But the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill puts the focus instead on "supportive parenting". |
| The issue of the role of fathers in IVF comes in the second day of committee stage debate of the controversial bill, aimed at updating laws from 1990. | The issue of the role of fathers in IVF comes in the second day of committee stage debate of the controversial bill, aimed at updating laws from 1990. |
| 'Empathetic love' | 'Empathetic love' |
| Later MPs will debate and vote on whether to cut the 24-week upper limit for abortions to 20 weeks or less. | Later MPs will debate and vote on whether to cut the 24-week upper limit for abortions to 20 weeks or less. |
| Mr Duncan Smith is leading a cross-party bid to keep the status quo in conditions for IVF treatment - that the need for a father, and a mother, is considered. | Mr Duncan Smith is leading a cross-party bid to keep the status quo in conditions for IVF treatment - that the need for a father, and a mother, is considered. |
| Do you consider lesbian couples to be broken families - and if you do, what evidence to you have that the children of those families are going off the rails? Evan HarrisLib Dem MP | Do you consider lesbian couples to be broken families - and if you do, what evidence to you have that the children of those families are going off the rails? Evan HarrisLib Dem MP |
| "On the whole the absence of fathers generally has a detrimental effect on a child, and it's the vast majority that are going to be a positive influence - if they are connected to that family," he said. | "On the whole the absence of fathers generally has a detrimental effect on a child, and it's the vast majority that are going to be a positive influence - if they are connected to that family," he said. |
| He said the influence of a father figure was as important for daughters as it was for sons. | He said the influence of a father figure was as important for daughters as it was for sons. |
| "It is more often from the father that those young girls learn about empathetic, non-conditional love - that it's possible to have a relationship that doesn't have to involve sex," he said. | "It is more often from the father that those young girls learn about empathetic, non-conditional love - that it's possible to have a relationship that doesn't have to involve sex," he said. |
| Labour ex-minister George Howarth asked if he accepted that there were bad fathers who can "have a bad influence in some circumstances" - to which Mr Duncan Smith said he did. | Labour ex-minister George Howarth asked if he accepted that there were bad fathers who can "have a bad influence in some circumstances" - to which Mr Duncan Smith said he did. |
| Lib Dem science spokesman Evan Harris asked: "Do you consider lesbian couples to be broken families? And if you do, what evidence to you have that the children of those families are going off the rails?" | Lib Dem science spokesman Evan Harris asked: "Do you consider lesbian couples to be broken families? And if you do, what evidence to you have that the children of those families are going off the rails?" |
| 'Direct discrimination' | 'Direct discrimination' |
| Mr Duncan Smith said he did not consider them broken families. "I hope, like everybody else, we would want any such relationship to prosper and the child would benefit." | Mr Duncan Smith said he did not consider them broken families. "I hope, like everybody else, we would want any such relationship to prosper and the child would benefit." |
| He said he did not know of any gay or lesbian couples who had been refused treatment under the current rules. | He said he did not know of any gay or lesbian couples who had been refused treatment under the current rules. |
| It's the quality of the parenting that makes the most difference, not the gender of the parents as such Dawn PrimaroloHealth Minister | It's the quality of the parenting that makes the most difference, not the gender of the parents as such Dawn PrimaroloHealth Minister |
| But Labour's Emily Thornberry said the Birmingham Women's Hospital insisted couples needed to be in a heterosexual relationship for two years. | But Labour's Emily Thornberry said the Birmingham Women's Hospital insisted couples needed to be in a heterosexual relationship for two years. |
| "That's direct discrimination against lesbian couples and against single women," she said. | "That's direct discrimination against lesbian couples and against single women," she said. |
| Tory shadow health minister Mark Simmonds said Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority guidelines were not allowed to refuse treatment on the basis of sexual discrimination. | Tory shadow health minister Mark Simmonds said Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority guidelines were not allowed to refuse treatment on the basis of sexual discrimination. |
| We should not, out of a misguided concept of equality or fairness, pretend that there is an automatic right for anyone to have a child, regardless of sex Sir Patrick CormackTory MP | |
| Labour's Geraldine Smith, who backs Mr Duncan Smith's stance, said: "It's nonsense to suggest that we shouldn't take into account the need for a father. | Labour's Geraldine Smith, who backs Mr Duncan Smith's stance, said: "It's nonsense to suggest that we shouldn't take into account the need for a father. |
| "We are not suggesting that single women or lesbians do not have IVF treatment - the only thing we're saying is there's a father figure somewhere. | "We are not suggesting that single women or lesbians do not have IVF treatment - the only thing we're saying is there's a father figure somewhere. |
| "It's just pure common sense." | "It's just pure common sense." |
| But Tory veteran Sir Patrick Cormack insisted: "We should not, out of a misguided concept of equality or fairness, pretend that there is an automatic right for anyone to have a child, regardless of sex. | |
| "A child that is deliberately brought into the world with no desire that there should be a man or a woman who is the parent is brought in with a disadvantage." | |
| 'Saviour siblings' | 'Saviour siblings' |
| However, Health Minister Dawn Primarolo insisted that the legislation "should be for all people that seek treatment, whether in a same sex couple, single women or heterosexual couples". | However, Health Minister Dawn Primarolo insisted that the legislation "should be for all people that seek treatment, whether in a same sex couple, single women or heterosexual couples". |
| "It's clear that if the need for a father was retained, the legislation would place additional burdens on single women and same sex female couples. | "It's clear that if the need for a father was retained, the legislation would place additional burdens on single women and same sex female couples. |
| "There is no evidence or suggestion to say that these women do not make good parents - that these women somehow make bad parents and therefore should be required to do additional steps." | "There is no evidence or suggestion to say that these women do not make good parents - that these women somehow make bad parents and therefore should be required to do additional steps." |
| She said the important issue was the "welfare of the child". "It's the quality of the parenting that makes the most difference, not the gender of the parents as such." | She said the important issue was the "welfare of the child". "It's the quality of the parenting that makes the most difference, not the gender of the parents as such." |
| On Monday, MPs voted down a cross-party attempt to ban hybrid human animal embryos. | On Monday, MPs voted down a cross-party attempt to ban hybrid human animal embryos. |
| Roman Catholic cabinet ministers Ruth Kelly, Des Browne and Paul Murphy voted for a ban, while Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Tory leader David Cameron both opposed it. | Roman Catholic cabinet ministers Ruth Kelly, Des Browne and Paul Murphy voted for a ban, while Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Tory leader David Cameron both opposed it. |
| A bid to ban "saviour siblings" - babies selected to provide genetic material for seriously ill relatives -was also voted down. | A bid to ban "saviour siblings" - babies selected to provide genetic material for seriously ill relatives -was also voted down. |