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| Gloria Allred: 'Many women contacted me even prior to the Trump tape' Gloria Allred: 'Many women contacted me even prior to the Trump tape' | |
| (about 20 hours later) | |
| From the moment that Donald Trump denied, in a nationally televised presidential debate, that he had ever groped or kissed a woman without her permission, it was only a matter of time before Gloria Allred got involved. | From the moment that Donald Trump denied, in a nationally televised presidential debate, that he had ever groped or kissed a woman without her permission, it was only a matter of time before Gloria Allred got involved. |
| An ambulance chaser to her critics, a righteous crusader to her admirers, the 75-year-old women’s rights attorney is never far when a scandal of this nature bursts into national view. No one knows this better than Allred herself. “I knew,” she said in a recent interview, “as soon as I heard those words – the denial in the debate – that women would start contacting me and want to come forward.” | An ambulance chaser to her critics, a righteous crusader to her admirers, the 75-year-old women’s rights attorney is never far when a scandal of this nature bursts into national view. No one knows this better than Allred herself. “I knew,” she said in a recent interview, “as soon as I heard those words – the denial in the debate – that women would start contacting me and want to come forward.” |
| Sure enough, Allred has, as of publication, introduced the world to three different women who accuse Trump of inappropriate sexual contact. Her involvement has placed Allred back in familiar territory: holding court at one of her trademark press conferences, surrounded by a phalanx of news crews. | Sure enough, Allred has, as of publication, introduced the world to three different women who accuse Trump of inappropriate sexual contact. Her involvement has placed Allred back in familiar territory: holding court at one of her trademark press conferences, surrounded by a phalanx of news crews. |
| Politics is her strong suit. Allred tanked Meg Whitman’s bid for California governor when she announced that Whitman’s former nanny would be suing for unpaid wages. And she fanned the flames engulfing Herman Cain’s presidential campaign when she introduced a woman who claimed that Cain once grabbed her head, forced it toward his crotch, and leered, “You want a job, right?” | Politics is her strong suit. Allred tanked Meg Whitman’s bid for California governor when she announced that Whitman’s former nanny would be suing for unpaid wages. And she fanned the flames engulfing Herman Cain’s presidential campaign when she introduced a woman who claimed that Cain once grabbed her head, forced it toward his crotch, and leered, “You want a job, right?” |
| But the California attorney has also pursued causes that have chagrined her fellow feminists. It was not so long ago that Allred’s press conferences starred Tiger Woods’ ex-girlfriend or a woman who had an online flirtation with Anthony Weiner. Allred proclaimed that Woods’ ex was “a victim because he broke her heart”. | But the California attorney has also pursued causes that have chagrined her fellow feminists. It was not so long ago that Allred’s press conferences starred Tiger Woods’ ex-girlfriend or a woman who had an online flirtation with Anthony Weiner. Allred proclaimed that Woods’ ex was “a victim because he broke her heart”. |
| “Some of her causes are incredibly worthy,” the writer Emily Bazelon told the New York Times. “But her way of going about it makes me cringe.” | “Some of her causes are incredibly worthy,” the writer Emily Bazelon told the New York Times. “But her way of going about it makes me cringe.” |
| I spoke with Allred this week about her supposed baggage, Trump’s accusers, the cultural shifts around rape and sexual assault and what young women may not understand about Hillary Rodham Clinton. | I spoke with Allred this week about her supposed baggage, Trump’s accusers, the cultural shifts around rape and sexual assault and what young women may not understand about Hillary Rodham Clinton. |
| Our conversation took place in two, 15-minute bursts. “I just have so many people trying to contact me,” she said as she excused herself from our first conversation. “Basically, women about Trump. And I have to get back to them.” How many? “Many.” | Our conversation took place in two, 15-minute bursts. “I just have so many people trying to contact me,” she said as she excused herself from our first conversation. “Basically, women about Trump. And I have to get back to them.” How many? “Many.” |
| Supposedly we’re in a moment where the culture and the media is much less suspicious of women who say they’ve been raped or assaulted or harassed in the workplace. Less suspicious of people like your clients. | Supposedly we’re in a moment where the culture and the media is much less suspicious of women who say they’ve been raped or assaulted or harassed in the workplace. Less suspicious of people like your clients. |
| Yes and no. Someone just sent me a rape case. And in that case, the jury, when they were discussing with the prosecutor afterwards why they voted the way they did on the case, some of the jurors, according to the prosecutors, said the fact that the woman said “no” was not enough. | Yes and no. Someone just sent me a rape case. And in that case, the jury, when they were discussing with the prosecutor afterwards why they voted the way they did on the case, some of the jurors, according to the prosecutors, said the fact that the woman said “no” was not enough. |
| If a woman does say “no,” why would that not be enough? I mean, if “no” is not enough to indicate a lack of consent, what does a woman have to do? | If a woman does say “no,” why would that not be enough? I mean, if “no” is not enough to indicate a lack of consent, what does a woman have to do? |
| So where do you think some of this optimism comes from, this idea that it’s getting better? | So where do you think some of this optimism comes from, this idea that it’s getting better? |
| Maybe it’s the old two steps forward, one step backwards? A step forward is some of the laws that have been passed in some states, what we call the yes-means-yes laws. | Maybe it’s the old two steps forward, one step backwards? A step forward is some of the laws that have been passed in some states, what we call the yes-means-yes laws. |
| I’ve also been active on working to change the laws, now in three states, to eliminate the statute of limitations for the criminal prosecution of rape and sexual assault. To eliminate that arbitrary time period. That’s a step forward because it means that more women can have access to justice. But it’s no guarantee. | I’ve also been active on working to change the laws, now in three states, to eliminate the statute of limitations for the criminal prosecution of rape and sexual assault. To eliminate that arbitrary time period. That’s a step forward because it means that more women can have access to justice. But it’s no guarantee. |
| You’re a lawyer, but you said once that women “have to be heard in the court of public opinion as well as in the actual courts”. Is that – | You’re a lawyer, but you said once that women “have to be heard in the court of public opinion as well as in the actual courts”. Is that – |
| In some cases. In some cases. Not all. | In some cases. In some cases. Not all. |
| Tell me about that distinction. | Tell me about that distinction. |
| I’m not always back there saying, yes, you must speak out! I do this case by case. We settle many, many cases confidentially. No one except the parties and the lawyers will ever know that there even was an allegation. | I’m not always back there saying, yes, you must speak out! I do this case by case. We settle many, many cases confidentially. No one except the parties and the lawyers will ever know that there even was an allegation. |
| And the women accusing Trump – what goes into the decision to have those big, trademark press conferences? | And the women accusing Trump – what goes into the decision to have those big, trademark press conferences? |
| Mr Trump’s own words. I won’t use the P-word, but he did. That, and then his denial. I knew, as soon as I heard those words, the denial in the debate, that women would start contacting me and want to come forward. | Mr Trump’s own words. I won’t use the P-word, but he did. That, and then his denial. I knew, as soon as I heard those words, the denial in the debate, that women would start contacting me and want to come forward. |
| Actually, many women contacted me even prior to the release of the Access Hollywood tape. They just wanted me to know what Mr Trump had done. | Actually, many women contacted me even prior to the release of the Access Hollywood tape. They just wanted me to know what Mr Trump had done. |
| The accusations being made in these press conferences become news almost instantaneously. How is your office vetting these claims before you make them public? | The accusations being made in these press conferences become news almost instantaneously. How is your office vetting these claims before you make them public? |
| We have spoken to individuals who are potential witnesses, who corroborate that at approximately the time or at some point after the incident occurred, not too long thereafter, they actually told one or more people about what happened. | We have spoken to individuals who are potential witnesses, who corroborate that at approximately the time or at some point after the incident occurred, not too long thereafter, they actually told one or more people about what happened. |
| Your critics see you as a serial attention-seeker. And that jibes with Trump’s claim – and this is how a lot of people dismiss claims of assault – that these women are lying for their “10 minutes of fame”. Do you think your involvement with these stories could be seen as compromising? | Your critics see you as a serial attention-seeker. And that jibes with Trump’s claim – and this is how a lot of people dismiss claims of assault – that these women are lying for their “10 minutes of fame”. Do you think your involvement with these stories could be seen as compromising? |
| It’s hard to think of anyone who wants more fame than Mr Trump. | It’s hard to think of anyone who wants more fame than Mr Trump. |
| Well, yes. | Well, yes. |
| But I don’t call him an attention-seeker. I just call him a bully. Having said that, some of the women who came out before I did a press conference, they’ve been labelled all kinds of things by Trump supporters. As Mr Trump said early on in his campaign, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his supporters would still support him. | But I don’t call him an attention-seeker. I just call him a bully. Having said that, some of the women who came out before I did a press conference, they’ve been labelled all kinds of things by Trump supporters. As Mr Trump said early on in his campaign, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his supporters would still support him. |
| This is something that Emily Bazelon said about you, I believe around the time that you were hosting press conferences with Tiger Woods’ ex-girlfriends, who weren’t, to my memory, accusing him of a crime: “Some of her causes are incredibly worthy, but her way of going about it makes me cringe.” Why do you think you make this other feminist cringe? | This is something that Emily Bazelon said about you, I believe around the time that you were hosting press conferences with Tiger Woods’ ex-girlfriends, who weren’t, to my memory, accusing him of a crime: “Some of her causes are incredibly worthy, but her way of going about it makes me cringe.” Why do you think you make this other feminist cringe? |
| I don’t know who Emily Bazelon is. You would have to ask her what things in life make her cringe. We’d be in a guessing game about what she means when she says “her way of going about it”. | I don’t know who Emily Bazelon is. You would have to ask her what things in life make her cringe. We’d be in a guessing game about what she means when she says “her way of going about it”. |
| There are some people who would prefer that victims suffer in silence. I’m not one of them. We’re lawyers. We don’t take polls or votes to see what other feminists believe is right. | There are some people who would prefer that victims suffer in silence. I’m not one of them. We’re lawyers. We don’t take polls or votes to see what other feminists believe is right. |
| OK, but people at the time had this criticism that you were giving an equal platform to women with broken hearts and women alleging an actual crime. | OK, but people at the time had this criticism that you were giving an equal platform to women with broken hearts and women alleging an actual crime. |
| Our standard is not: should women only have a voice if they’re the victim of a crime? I don’t know who thinks that that’s the standard, that women can only speak out if there’s a crime. I’ve never heard that as a requirement. | Our standard is not: should women only have a voice if they’re the victim of a crime? I don’t know who thinks that that’s the standard, that women can only speak out if there’s a crime. I’ve never heard that as a requirement. |
| You’re a big Clinton supporter. Do you notice a generational divide among women in how excited they are to see the first woman elected president, potentially? | You’re a big Clinton supporter. Do you notice a generational divide among women in how excited they are to see the first woman elected president, potentially? |
| I’m not a pollster. I will say this: I think that there are many women, older women, who really understand how important it is that we have a woman president. | I’m not a pollster. I will say this: I think that there are many women, older women, who really understand how important it is that we have a woman president. |
| Four years from now, and I think of this often, it will be 2020. And Hillary Rodham Clinton – if, as, and when she’s elected in November – will still be president. And in that year we will mark the 100th anniversary of women’s winning the right to vote in the United States. | Four years from now, and I think of this often, it will be 2020. And Hillary Rodham Clinton – if, as, and when she’s elected in November – will still be president. And in that year we will mark the 100th anniversary of women’s winning the right to vote in the United States. |
| That will be so important. And yes, I believe that we do, as mothers, as grandmothers, understand the importance of having a woman in the White House. Not only for the purposes of what I’ll call herstory, but as an inspiration for our daughters. And it’s just long overdue. | That will be so important. And yes, I believe that we do, as mothers, as grandmothers, understand the importance of having a woman in the White House. Not only for the purposes of what I’ll call herstory, but as an inspiration for our daughters. And it’s just long overdue. |
| Is “herstory” really your preferred word for history? | Is “herstory” really your preferred word for history? |
| Yes! | Yes! |
| Really? | Really? |
| Now it is. If she wins, she really is going to be making herstory. | Now it is. If she wins, she really is going to be making herstory. |
| You referred to Hillary Clinton as Hillary Rodham Clinton. Which I love, I don’t see many people referring to her using her maiden name. Is that a conscious choice? | You referred to Hillary Clinton as Hillary Rodham Clinton. Which I love, I don’t see many people referring to her using her maiden name. Is that a conscious choice? |
| Yes. At some point when she was in Arkansas, after she got married, she added her married name. She’s chosen to keep both names. And I’m glad she did. She’s saying, consider me on my own merits. | Yes. At some point when she was in Arkansas, after she got married, she added her married name. She’s chosen to keep both names. And I’m glad she did. She’s saying, consider me on my own merits. |
| I went to an all-girls high school, and many of these girls went on to be accomplished leaders and very successful. When it’s time for a reunion, it’s difficult to find some of these girls, because some of them have shed the only name we knew them by. | I went to an all-girls high school, and many of these girls went on to be accomplished leaders and very successful. When it’s time for a reunion, it’s difficult to find some of these girls, because some of them have shed the only name we knew them by. |
| A colleague of mine keeps saying she’s surprised no one is selling shirts that just read “Hillary Rodham”. | A colleague of mine keeps saying she’s surprised no one is selling shirts that just read “Hillary Rodham”. |
| Yes! I like it. Listen, part of why I admire her is because I have a small sense of what she’s endured. She has taken all of this criticism. That’s the price you pay for standing up for women’s rights, which is a statement by itself. Her election will be a message to our daughters: yYou too can overcome. I think this is herstoric and I’m so excited. | Yes! I like it. Listen, part of why I admire her is because I have a small sense of what she’s endured. She has taken all of this criticism. That’s the price you pay for standing up for women’s rights, which is a statement by itself. Her election will be a message to our daughters: yYou too can overcome. I think this is herstoric and I’m so excited. |
| I’m sorry, did you say herstoric or historic? | I’m sorry, did you say herstoric or historic? |
| It’s herstoric. | It’s herstoric. |
| The Obama presidency unleashed in many ways a racist backlash. Do you think a Hillary Clinton presidency could have the potential to do the same for sexism? | The Obama presidency unleashed in many ways a racist backlash. Do you think a Hillary Clinton presidency could have the potential to do the same for sexism? |
| There are some people who think that women should be denied opportunities because of their gender. But I think she’s going to show, through deeds, not just words, what a president can be. For many of the misogynists and male chauvinists out there, just experiencing a woman in power hopefully will help to eliminate some of those stereotypes. | There are some people who think that women should be denied opportunities because of their gender. But I think she’s going to show, through deeds, not just words, what a president can be. For many of the misogynists and male chauvinists out there, just experiencing a woman in power hopefully will help to eliminate some of those stereotypes. |
| What’s your level of optimism? | What’s your level of optimism? |
| There will still be some who will cling to the gender stereotypes and traditional gender roles. But this is it. We’re moving ahead. I’ve already made my reservations for the inauguration. I made them back in July. | There will still be some who will cling to the gender stereotypes and traditional gender roles. But this is it. We’re moving ahead. I’ve already made my reservations for the inauguration. I made them back in July. |
| This Q & A is the product of two phone calls and has been edited and condensed. | This Q & A is the product of two phone calls and has been edited and condensed. |