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Bashar al-Assad, Unrepentant, Says He Expects to Rule Syria Until 2021 Syria ‘Much Better Off’ Than Before War, an Unrepentant Bashar al-Assad Says
(about 7 hours later)
DAMASCUS, Syria — The guns were silent atop Mount Qasioun, and lights on its slopes twinkled over Damascus as President Bashar al-Assad welcomed visitors to his French-Ottoman palace below. It was possible to imagine, for a moment, that there was no war in Syria. DAMASCUS, Syria — The guns were silent atop Mount Qasioun and the lights on its slopes twinkled over Damascus as President Bashar al-Assad of Syria welcomed a group of Western visitors into his French-Ottoman palace on Monday night, presenting himself as a man firmly in control of his country.
The blasts that until recently echoed day and night from the mountaintop, shelling rebel-held suburbs, have subsided lately, and Mr. Assad, radiating confidence, was on a mission to persuade the Western public that their governments had made a mistake in backing his opponents. He radiated confidence and friendliness as he ushered a group of British and American journalists and policy analysts into an elegant wood-paneled sitting room where he claimed that the social fabric of Syria was “much better off” than it had been before a chaotic civil war began more than five years ago. It was as though half his citizens had not been driven from their homes and nearly half a million had not been killed in the bloody fighting for which he rejected any personal responsibility, blaming instead the United States and Islamist militants.
He promised his guests, half a dozen American and British journalists and policy analysts, that a new era of openness, transparency and dialogue was dawning in Syria, a message that was part of a concerted public-relations push by his top advisers and officials. He spoke of a struggle over identity in the Middle East, and of the right of every Syrian to be a “full citizen, in every meaning of this word.” “I’m just a headline — the bad president, the bad guy, who is killing the good guys,” Mr. Assad said. “You know this narrative. The real reason is toppling the government. This government doesn’t fit the criteria of the United States.”
Then he rejected any personal responsibility for the war ravaging his country, placing all the blame on the United States and Islamist militants, and none on his government or its security forces. It was a surreal meeting for me after years of writing about a devastating and intractable war that has reduced Syria’s once-grand city centers to rubble and prompted accusations of war crimes. While hundreds of thousands of Syrians are besieged and hungry, here was Mr. Assad, secure in his palace because he has outsourced much of the war to Russian, Iranian and Hezbollah forces whose influence has grown to a degree that makes some of his own supporters uncomfortable.
Mr. Assad ruled out political changes until government forces won the war, and he declared that he expected to be president at least until his third seven-year term ends in 2021. And he asserted that the state of the social fabric in Syria — a country where half the population has been driven from their homes, hundreds of thousands have been killed, tens of thousands more imprisoned and city centers reduced to rubble — was “much better than before” the war. He was on a mission to convince the Western public that their governments had made a mistake in backing his opponents, and that he was secure in his position as the custodian of Syrian sovereignty.
He projected confidence that government forces had seized the momentum and would regain control of the entire country, although even with the backing of Russian air power they have so far been unable to dislodge rebels from half of Aleppo, once Syria’s largest city. Waxing philosophical, he spoke of every Syrian’s right to be “a full citizen, in every meaning of this word,” and likened intolerant versions of religion to a computer operating system that needed to be updated. He promised that a new era of openness, transparency and dialogue was underway in Syria, and said that he was thinking ahead about how to modernize Syrians’ mentality after a war that he believed his forces were assured of winning.
Even as Mr. Assad and his inner circle tried out their new line of openness about the situation in Syria, they hardened their stance against compromising with domestic or international opponents, or even acknowledging any legitimate grievances behind the largely peaceful protests in 2011 that led to harsh security crackdowns and the civil war. Mr. Assad ruled out political changes until that happened, and declared that he planned to remain president at least until his third seven-year term ends in 2021.
They contended that the United States was actively backing the Islamic State group and other extremist militants, and called allegations of war crimes against Syrian officials politically motivated, fabricated, or both. Even as Mr. Assad and his inner circle tried out this new line of openness about the situation in Syria, they were hardening their stance against compromising with domestic or international opponents. They contended that the United States was actively backing the Islamic State and other extremist militants, and called allegations of war crimes against Syrian officials politically motivated, fabricated or both.
“I’m just a headline — the bad president, the bad guy, who is killing the good guys,” Mr. Assad said Monday evening in a wood-paneled salon in the palace. “You know this narrative. The real reason is toppling the government. This government doesn’t fit the criteria of the United States.” Despite “thousands of Syrians killed by the terrorists,” Mr. Assad asserted, “no one is talking about war crimes” by his armed opponents.
Despite “thousands of Syrians killed by the terrorists,” he said, “no one is talking about war crimes” by his armed opponents.
In fact, the day before, the United Nations special envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, followed by Amnesty International and other international rights groups, condemned the rebel groups’ indiscriminate shelling of government-held sections of Aleppo, attacks that have killed scores of civilians in recent days.In fact, the day before, the United Nations special envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, followed by Amnesty International and other international rights groups, condemned the rebel groups’ indiscriminate shelling of government-held sections of Aleppo, attacks that have killed scores of civilians in recent days.
Nevertheless, it is government warplanes that have indiscriminately pounded insurgent-held residential areas daily for years; government forces that have imposed starvation sieges; and state detention facilities where thousands of people — including peaceful protesters, bloggers and other civilians arrested seemingly at random — languish without trial, often under torture. But it is Syrian government warplanes that have indiscriminately pounded insurgent-held residential areas daily for years; government forces that have imposed starvation sieges; and state detention facilities where thousands of people — including peaceful protesters, bloggers and other civilians arrested seemingly at random — languish without trial, often under torture.
Government forces have also been responsible, according to Physicians for Human Rights, Doctors Without Borders and other international groups, for an overwhelming majority of hundreds of attacks on hospitals and medical workers, including numerous instances of “double-tap” strikes, where planes circle back to hit a second time as rescue workers arrive. We asked Mr. Assad about these things, of course.
“Let’s suppose that these allegations are correct and this president has killed his own people and the U.S. is helping the Syrian people,” Mr. Assad said. “After five years and a half, who supported me? How can I be a president and my people don’t support me?” “Let’s suppose that these allegations are correct and this president has killed his own people and the free world and the West are helping the Syrian people,” Mr. Assad said in English. “After five years and a half, who supported me? How can I be a president and my people don’t support me?”
He gave a small giggle and added, “This is not realistic story.”He gave a small giggle and added, “This is not realistic story.”
Mr. Assad has a point, as even some of his opponents acknowledge. He has held on not only because of decisive intervention by Iran, Russia and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, but also thanks to deeper support in some quarters than many opponents thought he had. Indeed, Mr. Assad has managed to hold on not only because of decisive intervention by foreign fighters, but also thanks to deeper support in some quarters than many thought he had.
Mr. Assad said on Monday that much of his support came from people who may dislike his policies or the Baath Party he heads, but who fear that the alternative would be extremist rule or state collapse. He added that after the war, that support could diminish. He did not address his government’s role in stamping out civilian opposition and focusing attacks on rebel groups that did not embrace extremist ideologies, tactics that left people with few alternatives. Mr. Assad said on Monday that while much of his support came from people who may dislike his policies or the Baath Party he heads, they fear that the alternative would be extremist rule or state collapse.
“They learned the value of the state,” he said, saying that fact had solidified the social fabric. “That’s what brought them towards us, not because they changed their mind politically.” “They learned the value of the state,” he said, acknowledging that this support could diminish if the war ends. “That’s what brought them towards us, not because they changed their mind politically.”
Mr. Assad’s remarks came after a two-day conference organized by the British Syrian Society, headed by his father-in-law, Fawaz Akhras, that was billed as part of a new openness and an effort to compete in what was termed a media war. Mr. Assad’s remarks came after a two-day conference organized by the British Syrian Society, headed by his father-in-law, Fawaz Akhras, that was billed as part of a new openness and an effort to compete in what has been termed a news media war.
Several dozen international journalists and analysts attended to obtain hard-to-get visas to report and gain a partial glimpse of the situation in government-held Syria. Reporters in the country are required to travel with minders and even then need elaborate permission to visit specific areas, and there was no sign that this policy was changing. I was among several dozen international journalists and analysts who attended the conference as a way to get into the country after more than two years of being unable to obtain a visa. There was no sign that the policy requiring journalists to travel with minders and to go through elaborate hoops to visit specific areas had changed.
Damascus, the capital, appears less tense than it was a year or two ago. After advances by pro-government forces and what the government calls reconciliation deals with besieged suburbs, there is less outgoing artillery fire, though there are still airstrikes on some suburbs. Rebel mortars hit the city less frequently. New bars are packed in the historic old city. But Damascus, the capital, appears less tense than on my last visit, in 2014. New bars are packed in the historic old city. After advances by pro-government forces and what the government calls reconciliation deals with besieged suburbs, there is less outgoing artillery fire, and rebel mortar fire hits the city less frequently.
The message from the conference speakers, many of them government officials, advisers and supporters, as well as from Mr. Assad, was one of confidence: They believe they are winning, and they are ready to engage with the West, but on their own terms. The message from the government officials and Assad supporters echoed the president’s: They believe they are winning and they are ready to engage with the West, but on their own terms.
“It is up to the West to rethink about their policies,” the Syrian foreign minister, Walid Mouallem, told journalists on Monday, adding that the government would welcome, though it did not expect, cooperation from the United States. “It is up to the West to rethink about their policies,” the Syrian foreign minister, Walid Muallem, told a group of us on Monday, adding that the government would welcome, though it did not expect, cooperation from the United States.
Mr. Mouallem said the government would fight to defeat any militants refusing to return to government rule — be they Kurdish groups in the northeast, or the Qaeda-linked groups and American-backed rebels fighting in Aleppo. He dismissed the possibility of any deal that would retain local opposition control in eastern Aleppo, saying that would “reward those murderers.” He denied that government forces had targeted a single hospital. Mr. Muallem said the government would fight to defeat any militants refusing to return to government rule — be they Kurdish groups in the northeast, or the Qaeda-linked groups and American-backed rebels fighting in Aleppo. He dismissed the possibility of any deal that would retain local opposition control in eastern Aleppo, saying that would “reward those murderers.”
Mr. Assad and his advisers have been hammering lately on concerns that resonate in the West: the disastrous American invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003, which have underpinned Western reluctance to use more military force against Mr. Assad; and the spread of Islamic State attacks to Western capitals, which has sent European officials quietly to Damascus in search of intelligence information. Mr. Assad, for his part, said during our meeting that “until this moment, we still have a dialogue through different channels,” even to the United States. “But that doesn’t mean to give up our sovereignty and transfer Syria into a puppet country,” he added.
“Until this moment, we still have a dialogue through different channels,” even to the United States, Mr. Assad said. “But that doesn’t mean to give up our sovereignty and transfer Syria into a puppet country.”
The confident statements come amid a much more complicated picture.The confident statements come amid a much more complicated picture.
The government is depending on Russian air support and thousands of militia fighters from Iraq and Hezbollah to aid army units to retake the rebel-held half of Aleppo. Even so, it is facing stiff resistance and counterattacks, and the battle is expected to take months at least. Despite Russian air support and thousands of militia fighters from Iraq and Hezbollah, the government’s push to retake the rebel-held half of Aleppo is facing stiff resistance and counterattacks.
Soldiers drafted for two-year service have been fighting for five years. Military officers — and even some pro-government civilians at the conference — grumbled that the growing role of Russia and Hezbollah in the war effort gave away too much sovereignty. The Syrian pound is worth one-tenth of its prewar value against the dollar. Millions of Syrian children are unable to attend school. The Islamic State still holds large swaths of Syria.
The Syrian pound is worth a 10th of its prewar value against the dollar. Millions of Syrian children are unable to attend school. The Islamic State militant group, while on the defensive from United States-backed forces in Iraq and northeastern Syria, still holds large swaths of Mr. Assad’s country. Mr. Assad, in a dark suit and his trademark Windsor-knotted tie, met us at the top of the sweeping staircase of the palace, saying he found it “more cozy” than the official one. There were no security checks.
Mr. Assad, as is his custom, met visitors on Monday at the top of the sweeping staircase of the palace, saying he found it “more cozy” than the official one, used for ceremonies, on a hill overlooking central Damascus. There were no security checks. Hanging in the grand entryway was a painting of a distorted, grimacing figure, a signature work by the Syrian artist Sabhan Adam, who draws inspiration for his “human monsters,” his website says, from “the pain, fear and phobia which our society constantly suffers from.”
Hanging in the grand entryway was a reminder of quieter days, when Mr. Assad and his wife, Asma, had more time to spend as patrons of the arts. It was a painting of a distorted, grimacing figure, a signature work by the Syrian artist Sabhan Adam, who draws inspiration for his “human monsters,” his website says, from “the pain, fear and phobia which our society constantly suffers from.”
Mr. Assad joked about his love of technology — “I follow the gadgets on a daily basis” — and noted with pride that 4G mobile phone technology had been introduced in Syria during the war. But he brushed off reports that he loved video games.Mr. Assad joked about his love of technology — “I follow the gadgets on a daily basis” — and noted with pride that 4G mobile phone technology had been introduced in Syria during the war. But he brushed off reports that he loved video games.
“The last video game I played was Atari,” he said. “Space Invaders.”“The last video game I played was Atari,” he said. “Space Invaders.”
Pressed on how Syria might be restructured or reformed, he said the first change that was needed was in the region’s mental “operating system,” which he said was based on religion. Pressed on how Syria might be restructured or reformed, he said the first change needed was in the region’s mental “operating system,” which he said was based on religion.
That was not bad per se, he said, but Islamist ideologies based on “bad interpretation” had taken root before the war and had fueled it. He rejected analysts’ contentions that his government had accelerated the process by building mosques and funneling jihadist fighters to Iraq during the United States occupation. Ideologies based on “bad interpretation” of Islam had fueled the war, he said, rejecting analysts’ contentions that his government had accelerated the process by building mosques and funneling jihadist fighters to Iraq during the United States occupation.
“Islamization means ‘I don’t believe in anyone who doesn’t look like me, behaves like me, thinks like me,’ ” he said. “Secular means freedom of religion.”“Islamization means ‘I don’t believe in anyone who doesn’t look like me, behaves like me, thinks like me,’ ” he said. “Secular means freedom of religion.”
He grew steely when asked why he did not release political prisoners and detainees accused only of protesting or writing against the government but not of violent acts. He denied the existence of political prisoners and grew steely when asked about people detained for protesting or writing against the government.
First, he disputed the existence of political prisoners. “There is no political. We have legal,” he said. “The legal criminals are the ones who breach the laws, whether it is political aspect or the military or the security.”
“If you support the terrorists, it’s not political prisoner,” he added. “You are supporting the killers.”“If you support the terrorists, it’s not political prisoner,” he added. “You are supporting the killers.”
He said that he had released tens of thousands of prisoners through amnesties to pave the way for “any solution in our society,” but that he had the authority to release only those who had been tried and sentenced.He said that he had released tens of thousands of prisoners through amnesties to pave the way for “any solution in our society,” but that he had the authority to release only those who had been tried and sentenced.
Asked about a list of detainees whose families have heard nothing of them for years, he asked for proof that they were in prison. Asked about specific detainees whose families have heard nothing of them for years, he demanded proof, saying: “Do you have documents? Did they see them in prison?”
“Do you have documents?” he asked. “Did they see them in prison?” Mr. Assad said he was fighting to preserve state institutions and criticized Western intervention. “Good government or bad,” he said, “it’s not your mission.”
He said the families should “go back to the institution” and inquire with the judicial system. But countless families have tried to do that, repeatedly, paying bribes for information only to come up empty. Former prisoners, Syrian lawyers and rights groups have provided extensive documentation that prisoners lack basic habeas corpus rights, and that trials often take only a few minutes.
Mr. Assad said he was fighting to preserve state institutions. “Good or bad,” he said of his government and of Libya’s, “It’s not your mission to change it.”