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| Ministers consider council tax rise to cover social care funding | Ministers consider council tax rise to cover social care funding |
| (about 20 hours later) | |
| Local authorities could be allowed to make a further increase in council tax to pay for social care. | Local authorities could be allowed to make a further increase in council tax to pay for social care. |
| Ministers in England are discussing ways to invest more money into care services for the elderly and disabled. | Ministers in England are discussing ways to invest more money into care services for the elderly and disabled. |
| Lib Dem health spokesman Norman Lamb called for a cross-party commission on social care to ask the public how much they are prepared to fund the service. | Lib Dem health spokesman Norman Lamb called for a cross-party commission on social care to ask the public how much they are prepared to fund the service. |
| "If you keep sleepwalking towards the edge of the precipice, real people will suffer," Mr Lamb said. | "If you keep sleepwalking towards the edge of the precipice, real people will suffer," Mr Lamb said. |
| Communities Secretary Sajid Javid will unveil spending plans on Thursday. | Communities Secretary Sajid Javid will unveil spending plans on Thursday. |
| Reality Check: Is social care getting more money? | Reality Check: Is social care getting more money? |
| One option is to let them increase council tax beyond the extra 2% for which they already have permission, while another is bringing forward extra money they have been promised in 2019. | One option is to let them increase council tax beyond the extra 2% for which they already have permission, while another is bringing forward extra money they have been promised in 2019. |
| This comes as fewer people are getting help from local authorities. | This comes as fewer people are getting help from local authorities. |
| Older people's services - representing the bulk of care - have been particularly badly hit. | Older people's services - representing the bulk of care - have been particularly badly hit. |
| Spending has fallen by 9% in real terms over the past five years with local government blaming cuts to their funding from central government. | Spending has fallen by 9% in real terms over the past five years with local government blaming cuts to their funding from central government. |
| The result has been an even larger drop - of over a quarter - in the numbers getting help in care homes, nursing homes and in their own homes for daily tasks such as washing and dressing. | The result has been an even larger drop - of over a quarter - in the numbers getting help in care homes, nursing homes and in their own homes for daily tasks such as washing and dressing. |
| It has meant growing numbers having to go without help or pay for their own care - councils fund services only for the poorest, with those with assets of more than £23,250 expected to pay the full cost of care themselves. | It has meant growing numbers having to go without help or pay for their own care - councils fund services only for the poorest, with those with assets of more than £23,250 expected to pay the full cost of care themselves. |
| Regulators have warned these cuts have started adding to pressures in the NHS with A&E units said to be bearing the brunt. | Regulators have warned these cuts have started adding to pressures in the NHS with A&E units said to be bearing the brunt. |
| Old and frail patients are being admitted because of the lack of community support, which is also being blamed for the growing number of delayed discharges - cases where patients are ready to leave hospital but cannot. | Old and frail patients are being admitted because of the lack of community support, which is also being blamed for the growing number of delayed discharges - cases where patients are ready to leave hospital but cannot. |
| Read more: | Read more: |
| The BBC has been told that before the referendum Number 10 was considering plans for a cross-party commission to look at the costs of health and social care. | The BBC has been told that before the referendum Number 10 was considering plans for a cross-party commission to look at the costs of health and social care. |
| David Cameron's team invited three former health ministers - Mr Lamb, Conservative Stephen Dorrell and Labour's Alan Milburn - to present their plan to the government. | David Cameron's team invited three former health ministers - Mr Lamb, Conservative Stephen Dorrell and Labour's Alan Milburn - to present their plan to the government. |
| Mr Lamb said: "We went in and talked to them and presented them with a paper, then the whole run up to the referendum took over and we never got any response from that. | Mr Lamb said: "We went in and talked to them and presented them with a paper, then the whole run up to the referendum took over and we never got any response from that. |
| "Then, of course, there's been a change of government but the need for this government to engage in this and for all parties to stand up to their responsibilities as well, to join a process, to ensure that we reach a once-in-a-generation settlement for the health and care settlement is absolutely fundamental." | "Then, of course, there's been a change of government but the need for this government to engage in this and for all parties to stand up to their responsibilities as well, to join a process, to ensure that we reach a once-in-a-generation settlement for the health and care settlement is absolutely fundamental." |
| When asked what he would say to Theresa May's team, Mr Lamb replied: "Engage. Talk to us now. There is an urgency about this." | When asked what he would say to Theresa May's team, Mr Lamb replied: "Engage. Talk to us now. There is an urgency about this." |
| Ahead of last month's Autumn Statement there were suggestions the government would invest more money into social care, but it was not included in Chancellor Philip Hammond's announcements. | Ahead of last month's Autumn Statement there were suggestions the government would invest more money into social care, but it was not included in Chancellor Philip Hammond's announcements. |
| However, ahead of the local government financial settlement for 2017-18, expected on Thursday, the Treasury is understood to be discussing ways in which funding could be increased. | However, ahead of the local government financial settlement for 2017-18, expected on Thursday, the Treasury is understood to be discussing ways in which funding could be increased. |
| The prime minister's spokeswoman refused to comment on the speculation, but said an announcement would be made soon. | The prime minister's spokeswoman refused to comment on the speculation, but said an announcement would be made soon. |
| And she added it was not "just about money", pointing to the wide variation in the delays being seen getting patients out of hospital from area to area. | And she added it was not "just about money", pointing to the wide variation in the delays being seen getting patients out of hospital from area to area. |
| "There are other issues to be addressed," she added. | "There are other issues to be addressed," she added. |
| One option is to allow councils to increase the 2% precept they applied this year by even more in the coming years. The plan was to allow an extra 2% a year for the rest of the parliament, meaning an overall rise of 8% by 2019-20. | One option is to allow councils to increase the 2% precept they applied this year by even more in the coming years. The plan was to allow an extra 2% a year for the rest of the parliament, meaning an overall rise of 8% by 2019-20. |
| But under the steps being considered is giving councils the ability to get to 8% sooner or perhaps even go above the 8% limit. | But under the steps being considered is giving councils the ability to get to 8% sooner or perhaps even go above the 8% limit. |
| The second option is to use the Better Care Fund. That is a pot of money councils share with the NHS, which is worth £3.9bn this year and is due to increase by £1.5bn in 2019. Many have argued the extra funding should be brought forward. | The second option is to use the Better Care Fund. That is a pot of money councils share with the NHS, which is worth £3.9bn this year and is due to increase by £1.5bn in 2019. Many have argued the extra funding should be brought forward. |
| 'My mum needs dignity and respect' | 'My mum needs dignity and respect' |
| John Sibley's mother is 89 and suffers from dementia. She was a resident in a care home until she fell and fractured her leg in June, when she was admitted to hospital. | John Sibley's mother is 89 and suffers from dementia. She was a resident in a care home until she fell and fractured her leg in June, when she was admitted to hospital. |
| Although she has been ready to be discharged since July, a shortage of care home places and a lack of personal funds mean she is still staying in a windowless hospital room. | Although she has been ready to be discharged since July, a shortage of care home places and a lack of personal funds mean she is still staying in a windowless hospital room. |
| The 65-year-old, from South Gloucestershire, says: "We don't need a 2% precept; we need hundreds of millions of pounds. | The 65-year-old, from South Gloucestershire, says: "We don't need a 2% precept; we need hundreds of millions of pounds. |
| "We need a two-tier system again with homes run by either the council or NHS, and other homes run privately. | "We need a two-tier system again with homes run by either the council or NHS, and other homes run privately. |
| "I just want her to get somewhere where she can have a life with some dignity and respect; some quality of life." | "I just want her to get somewhere where she can have a life with some dignity and respect; some quality of life." |
| Martin Green from Care England, which represents care providers, said that funding problems in the industry were "reaching a crisis point". | Martin Green from Care England, which represents care providers, said that funding problems in the industry were "reaching a crisis point". |
| "Research shows that about 40% of care services will no longer be viable in the medium term, so this is a huge number of care services that will be lost, some companies will definitely go bankrupt," he said. | "Research shows that about 40% of care services will no longer be viable in the medium term, so this is a huge number of care services that will be lost, some companies will definitely go bankrupt," he said. |
| NHS v social care | NHS v social care |
| NHS: Budget controlled by NHS England and pays for hospitals, GPs, district nursing and mental health care. Services are provided free at the point of need. | NHS: Budget controlled by NHS England and pays for hospitals, GPs, district nursing and mental health care. Services are provided free at the point of need. |
| Care: Budget controlled by councils and pays for care home and nursing home places as well as support in the home for tasks such as washing and dressing. Services are means-tested so only the poorest get help towards their costs. | Care: Budget controlled by councils and pays for care home and nursing home places as well as support in the home for tasks such as washing and dressing. Services are means-tested so only the poorest get help towards their costs. |
| Conservative councillor Izzi Seccombe, of the Local Government Association, said that increasing the precept "would not plug" any funding gap. | Conservative councillor Izzi Seccombe, of the Local Government Association, said that increasing the precept "would not plug" any funding gap. |
| She said the £383m raised from a previous 2% precept was eclipsed by larger costs, such as the £600m cost of the national living wage increase. | She said the £383m raised from a previous 2% precept was eclipsed by larger costs, such as the £600m cost of the national living wage increase. |
| A key problem with the precept system, she added, was variation in the amount of money raised between wealthy and poorer areas, creating a "postcode lottery". | A key problem with the precept system, she added, was variation in the amount of money raised between wealthy and poorer areas, creating a "postcode lottery". |
| Labour's shadow social care minister Barbara Keeley said the crisis has been "caused by savage Tory cuts to the budgets of local councils". | Labour's shadow social care minister Barbara Keeley said the crisis has been "caused by savage Tory cuts to the budgets of local councils". |
| "The right solution would be for Theresa May to admit the Tories have got it wrong and deliver the needed funding for social care," she said. | "The right solution would be for Theresa May to admit the Tories have got it wrong and deliver the needed funding for social care," she said. |
| "Asking taxpayers and councils to pick up the bill for their failure is no substitute for a proper plan." | "Asking taxpayers and councils to pick up the bill for their failure is no substitute for a proper plan." |