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Row over UK 'veto' of Welsh laws in Wales Bill debate | Row over UK 'veto' of Welsh laws in Wales Bill debate |
(about 2 hours later) | |
Powers allowing the UK government to overturn laws made in Wales have been criticised by a former lord chief justice as an "insult" to democracy. | Powers allowing the UK government to overturn laws made in Wales have been criticised by a former lord chief justice as an "insult" to democracy. |
Lord Judge lambasted measures in the Wales Bill which could allow ministers in Westminster to change assembly legislation without Parliament's say. | Lord Judge lambasted measures in the Wales Bill which could allow ministers in Westminster to change assembly legislation without Parliament's say. |
The independent peer said the inclusion of the power was a "constitutional aberration". | The independent peer said the inclusion of the power was a "constitutional aberration". |
But Wales Office minister Lord Bourne said its use would be discussed. | But Wales Office minister Lord Bourne said its use would be discussed. |
The proposed Wales Bill - which devolves new powers to the Welsh assembly including over fracking and changes the way it makes laws - is being considered in its final stages in the House of Lords. | The proposed Wales Bill - which devolves new powers to the Welsh assembly including over fracking and changes the way it makes laws - is being considered in its final stages in the House of Lords. |
The row erupted as the Lords discussed amendments to the bill, including giving the Welsh Government the powers to ban high-stakes gambling machines and scrapping a clause allowing UK ministers to block some laws made in Wales about water. | The row erupted as the Lords discussed amendments to the bill, including giving the Welsh Government the powers to ban high-stakes gambling machines and scrapping a clause allowing UK ministers to block some laws made in Wales about water. |
Lord Judge, the most senior judge in England and Wales between 2008 and 2013, was critical of measures - known as the Henry VIII clauses - contained in the bill which he said would allow laws passed by the Welsh assembly to be changed by ministers in London without Parliament's consent. | Lord Judge, the most senior judge in England and Wales between 2008 and 2013, was critical of measures - known as the Henry VIII clauses - contained in the bill which he said would allow laws passed by the Welsh assembly to be changed by ministers in London without Parliament's consent. |
Lord Judge said: "This is the malevolent ghost of King Henry VIII wandering through the Valleys of Wales." | Lord Judge said: "This is the malevolent ghost of King Henry VIII wandering through the Valleys of Wales." |
"Actually it is an insult to the democratic process which this Parliament created when the National Assembly of Wales was created," he added. | "Actually it is an insult to the democratic process which this Parliament created when the National Assembly of Wales was created," he added. |
Lord Judge said the House of Lords should be "embarrassed" that it had allowed such a measure to be put in place in Scotland. | Lord Judge said the House of Lords should be "embarrassed" that it had allowed such a measure to be put in place in Scotland. |
Plaid Cymru peer Lord Wigley, also criticised the clauses, describing them as "arcane and undemocratic". | Plaid Cymru peer Lord Wigley, also criticised the clauses, describing them as "arcane and undemocratic". |
This is not the first time a row has broken out during the passage of the bill, last year First Minister Carwyn Jones said measures in it amounted to an "English veto on Welsh laws". | This is not the first time a row has broken out during the passage of the bill, last year First Minister Carwyn Jones said measures in it amounted to an "English veto on Welsh laws". |
But Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth said any move to use the power relating to legislation made in Wales "would be discussed between officials well in advance of regulations being laid". | But Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth said any move to use the power relating to legislation made in Wales "would be discussed between officials well in advance of regulations being laid". |
He said there would be some "institutional underpinning" over the use of the regulations. | He said there would be some "institutional underpinning" over the use of the regulations. |
A Welsh Government spokesman said: "It is clear that the former Lord Chief Justice, Lord Judge, shares our concerns about provisions he describes as a 'constitutional aberration'. | |
"It is disappointing that the UK government has not felt able so far to respond effectively to our, and his, arguments." | |
The UK government also faced calls to guarantee Welsh communities would never again be sacrificed to provide water for England. | The UK government also faced calls to guarantee Welsh communities would never again be sacrificed to provide water for England. |
In 1965, the village of Capel Celyn was flooded to create the Tryweryn reservoir to provide Liverpool with water, under a law passed in 1956. | In 1965, the village of Capel Celyn was flooded to create the Tryweryn reservoir to provide Liverpool with water, under a law passed in 1956. |
Last month Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns said he would scrap his ability to block some laws made in the assembly about water under changes to the Wales Bill. | Last month Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns said he would scrap his ability to block some laws made in the assembly about water under changes to the Wales Bill. |
But Lord Wigley said the amendments failed to deliver on the promise, instead stating a protocol may be put in place to protect English consumers and Wales. | But Lord Wigley said the amendments failed to deliver on the promise, instead stating a protocol may be put in place to protect English consumers and Wales. |
Labour peer and assembly member Baroness Morgan of Ely called for the UK government to clarify exactly what was in the protocol. | Labour peer and assembly member Baroness Morgan of Ely called for the UK government to clarify exactly what was in the protocol. |
But Lord Bourne said Tryweryn could not happen again and the issue was unaffected by the Wales Bill. | But Lord Bourne said Tryweryn could not happen again and the issue was unaffected by the Wales Bill. |
The bill is scheduled to be discussed in the House of Lords again on 10 January. | The bill is scheduled to be discussed in the House of Lords again on 10 January. |