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French presidential candidates debate key election issues - live! French presidential candidates debate key election issues - live!
(35 minutes later)
10.43pm GMT
22:43
Le Pen has spoken longer and louder than everyone else ...
Le Pen comes off as angry and incoherent, on health and pensions. But maybe it works for her electorate. #LeGrandDebat
10.39pm GMT
22:39
Healthcare
Another lengthy and detailed discussion.
Mélenchon says everyone should be reimbursed in full for all their healthcare expenses: “We know how to fund that, it’s not complicated.”
Fillon says the system has to be “debureaucratised” and GPs need to be at the heart of the system. They need to be paid properly, to be able to work in teams. Hospitals need to be more independent.
Macron also wants healthcare professionals to have more autonomy.
Le Pen says France has to cut waste in its healthcare system. As a mother of three, she says, she could have started a pharmacy ...
UK observers should note the amount of time healthcare, pensions and employment issues are taking up in the French presidential debate
10.30pm GMT
22:30
There is a lengthy debate on the age of retirement ...
Fillon proposes raising the retirement age to 65.
Macron says he will reform the pension system from top to bottom. It is unclear and confusing and unfair, he says. One euro paid into the system should be worth one euro at retirement age, he says.
10.25pm GMT
22:25
Tweet of the night so far: “As president of the Republic, I would shorten presidential debates.”
Moi, président de la République, je raccourcirai les débats télévisés #DebatTF1
10.19pm GMT
22:19
Le Pen says Brexit is a huge success and the UK’s results are “formidable”. Everyone knows what I think of Europe and the euro, she says.
The other candidates laugh ...
hahahahaha Le Pen just mentioned Brexit and everyone in the room booed, hello there from French people in London
Updated
at 10.20pm GMT
10.15pm GMT
22:15
Le Pen’s ideas on the economy are not entirely coherent, according to some:
Le Pen completely incoherent on economics. No figures. No specifics. Nothing. Very Trumplike. Will her voters care, though? #LeGrandDébat
Fillon accuses Le Pen of leading France “towards social and economic chaos”.
French rightwing candidate @FrancoisFillon accuses @MLP_officiel of leading France "towards social and economic chaos" in TV debate @AFP pic.twitter.com/VoY23PDOh5
Updated
at 10.25pm GMT
10.12pm GMT
22:12
Taxes: are they too high?
Hamon says the only new idea in the campaign is his: a universal basic income.
Fillon says France’s neighbours have not cut the working week and are doing better than France. Investment is key, he says. He is determined to raise purchasing power.
Macron says investment has to be increased and the social security charges companies pay have to be reduced. He says he will abolish property tax, paid by 85% of French citizens.
Fillon accuses him of being “a little bit left, a little bit right” – Macron replies that his policies are “effective, and fair”.
Wow! Macron says he will abolish property tax on all home owners which brings in €10 bn a year. Big bribe to middle France as 85% pay tax
Updated
at 10.17pm GMT
10.05pm GMT10.05pm GMT
22:0522:05
Le Pen says she does not want to enter into “a debate among ultra-liberals”. That model has shown its shortcomings, she says, it has “ruined our agriculture, ruined our industry”.Le Pen says she does not want to enter into “a debate among ultra-liberals”. That model has shown its shortcomings, she says, it has “ruined our agriculture, ruined our industry”.
France needs “economic patriotism” she says; the state must encourage French businesses, not foreign businesses. The EU encourages unfair competition and French industry pays the price.France needs “economic patriotism” she says; the state must encourage French businesses, not foreign businesses. The EU encourages unfair competition and French industry pays the price.
UpdatedUpdated
at 10.07pm GMTat 10.07pm GMT
10.00pm GMT10.00pm GMT
22:0022:00
Quite a few observers agreeing that Fillon does not seem to be able to make his mark on this debate. “He’s trying, but it’s not getting through”:Quite a few observers agreeing that Fillon does not seem to be able to make his mark on this debate. “He’s trying, but it’s not getting through”:
Fillon n'arrive pas à prendre la parole. Ni face à Mélenchon ni face à Macron... Il essaie mais ça ne passe pas #DebatTF1Fillon n'arrive pas à prendre la parole. Ni face à Mélenchon ni face à Macron... Il essaie mais ça ne passe pas #DebatTF1
9.57pm GMT9.57pm GMT
21:5721:57
A trace of irony:A trace of irony:
Mélenchon has a good plan to reduce unemployment: "You create 300,000 jobs here, 300,000 jobs there..." #Nobel #FrenchPresidentialDebateMélenchon has a good plan to reduce unemployment: "You create 300,000 jobs here, 300,000 jobs there..." #Nobel #FrenchPresidentialDebate
9.56pm GMT9.56pm GMT
21:5621:56
#presidential2017 #legranddebat Hamon says firms must look at "stress, anxiety, length of service and burn-out" + organise work differently#presidential2017 #legranddebat Hamon says firms must look at "stress, anxiety, length of service and burn-out" + organise work differently
9.55pm GMT9.55pm GMT
21:5521:55
The economyThe economy
Unemployment is a major and stubborn problem in France. What’s the solution?Unemployment is a major and stubborn problem in France. What’s the solution?
Fillon says countries around France have managed full employment. So why haven’t we? Employees must be able to negotiate hours with employers on a company-by-company basis, he says: “Give companies the freedom ... to organise themselves.”Fillon says countries around France have managed full employment. So why haven’t we? Employees must be able to negotiate hours with employers on a company-by-company basis, he says: “Give companies the freedom ... to organise themselves.”
Macron says he is not suggesting abolishing France’s 35-hour week. He says the law should set the framework and principles, but companies and industrial sectors should be able to decide. And he wants a cut in corporation tax.Macron says he is not suggesting abolishing France’s 35-hour week. He says the law should set the framework and principles, but companies and industrial sectors should be able to decide. And he wants a cut in corporation tax.
Hamon says we need to take account now of the impact of automation. “I will be the candidate of a decent wage,” he says, and in an increase in the minimum wage.Hamon says we need to take account now of the impact of automation. “I will be the candidate of a decent wage,” he says, and in an increase in the minimum wage.
Mélenchon says he is interesting in creating jobs by filling company order books; he will invest €100bn in future technologies.Mélenchon says he is interesting in creating jobs by filling company order books; he will invest €100bn in future technologies.
9.44pm GMT9.44pm GMT
21:4421:44
Xavier Frison from Marianne magazine says Fillon is effectively absent from the debate, “inaudible, the big loser of the evening so far”:Xavier Frison from Marianne magazine says Fillon is effectively absent from the debate, “inaudible, the big loser of the evening so far”:
Point d'étape : #Fillon, l'air absent, inaudible, le grand perdant de la soirée pour le moment. #LeGrandDebatPoint d'étape : #Fillon, l'air absent, inaudible, le grand perdant de la soirée pour le moment. #LeGrandDebat
9.42pm GMT9.42pm GMT
21:4221:42
A break ...A break ...
We’ve taken a break, I presume a commercial one ...We’ve taken a break, I presume a commercial one ...
A few instant reactions: Le Figaro’s London correspondent reckons it isn’t everyone against Macron but everyone against Le Pen. Hamon and Le Pen are gunning for Macron, Fillon is reserved and Mélenchon is almost “acting as referee”:A few instant reactions: Le Figaro’s London correspondent reckons it isn’t everyone against Macron but everyone against Le Pen. Hamon and Le Pen are gunning for Macron, Fillon is reserved and Mélenchon is almost “acting as referee”:
#LeGrandDebat devait être tous contre Macron. En fait c'est ts contre Le Pen, Hamon et MLP contre Macron, Fillon discret, Mélenchon arbitre.#LeGrandDebat devait être tous contre Macron. En fait c'est ts contre Le Pen, Hamon et MLP contre Macron, Fillon discret, Mélenchon arbitre.
9.36pm GMT9.36pm GMT
21:3621:36
Energy, nuclear power, environmentEnergy, nuclear power, environment
Hamon says France should close its old nuclear reactors and invest more in wind power.Hamon says France should close its old nuclear reactors and invest more in wind power.
Fillon says France’s nuclear industry must be safe.Fillon says France’s nuclear industry must be safe.
Macron says he wants a 50-50 split between nuclear and renewable by 20150. He says clean air is critical: diesel cars should no longer get tax breaks; one million homes should be made more energy-efficient.Macron says he wants a 50-50 split between nuclear and renewable by 20150. He says clean air is critical: diesel cars should no longer get tax breaks; one million homes should be made more energy-efficient.
Le Pen says the freetrade, “ultra-liberal model” is intrinsically bad for the environment because it encourages production on the other side of the globe. She defends diesel, says French drivers who were encouraged to buy them should not be penalised.Le Pen says the freetrade, “ultra-liberal model” is intrinsically bad for the environment because it encourages production on the other side of the globe. She defends diesel, says French drivers who were encouraged to buy them should not be penalised.
UpdatedUpdated
at 9.46pm GMTat 9.46pm GMT
9.31pm GMT9.31pm GMT
21:3121:31
Morality in public lifeMorality in public life
Asked how to restore a sense of morality in public life – with several of the participants embroiled in assorted judicial and other inquiries:Asked how to restore a sense of morality in public life – with several of the participants embroiled in assorted judicial and other inquiries:
Fillon says he will set up a commission should be set up to improve transparency and guarantee good conduct.Fillon says he will set up a commission should be set up to improve transparency and guarantee good conduct.
Macron says conflicts of interests must be abolished as far as humanly possible; all relations with lobbyists must be disclosed; MPs’ pay must be made completely transparent; the rules must be clear.Macron says conflicts of interests must be abolished as far as humanly possible; all relations with lobbyists must be disclosed; MPs’ pay must be made completely transparent; the rules must be clear.
Mélenchon says MPs should not be able to do consultancy work, and hiring family members – common practice in France – should be banned.Mélenchon says MPs should not be able to do consultancy work, and hiring family members – common practice in France – should be banned.
Le Pen says the campaign has helped French voters realise that some candidates are defending the interests of major groups rather than of the French people. She has a dig at Macron here, a former banker: “Private interests have invited themselves into this campaign.”Le Pen says the campaign has helped French voters realise that some candidates are defending the interests of major groups rather than of the French people. She has a dig at Macron here, a former banker: “Private interests have invited themselves into this campaign.”
Macron comes close to accusing her of defamation, saying she has accused him of a conflict of interest – if she believes that, she should file a formal complaint, he says, or keep her silence.Macron comes close to accusing her of defamation, saying she has accused him of a conflict of interest – if she believes that, she should file a formal complaint, he says, or keep her silence.
9.21pm GMT
21:21
A first few thoughts from the Guardian’s Paris correspondent, Angelique Chrisafis:
Macron began the debate at a certain disadvantage: this is his first ever election and he is more used to being on stage alone, delivering speeches than taking part in debates. When he was economy minister, one of his biggest, televised verbal shoot-outs was with Le Pen’s strategy mastermind and media pit-bull, Florian Philippot, who is tonight sitting, nodding, behind Le Pen in the studio.
Angelique adds:
So far tonight, Macron has aimed his fire at his right-wing rival Fillon, attacking him for using the term “civil war” and “wanting to sow the seeds of fear.” Macron, who has risen in the polls since Fillon’s legal woes of the past five weeks, also rubbished Fillon’s policy plan to lower the criminal age of responsibility to 16. But having let Hamon and Mélenchon lead most charges against Le Pen, Macron suddenly lashed out at the Front National candidate when she accused him of being in favour of the burkini. He accused her of deliberately wanted to “divide French society”.
Updated
at 9.22pm GMT
9.20pm GMT
21:20
Institutions
This promises to be pretty dry ...
Mélenchon says there should be a sixth Republic.
Le Pen says 500,000 voters should be able to call a referendum. The people are sovereign, she says; the number of MPs and senators should be cut; and France’s regions should be scrapped.
Hamon also calls for a sixth Republic, to “allow democracy to breathe”.
Macron says he has started a new political movement, without public subsidy – this is a real exercise in democratic renewal, he says.
He addresses the question of his campaign funding, the subject of some debate: it is funded by individuals giving between one and 7,500 euros, he says.
Asked specifically whether he is funded by wealthy individuals form the pharmaceutical or oil industry, Macron says he pledges not to be influenced by anyone.
9.09pm GMT
21:09
Secularism
Secularism is respect at every moment for the laws of the Republic, says Macron. It is a shield.
Mélenchon says secularism is the separation of church and state and the absolute respect of liberty of conscience and freedom of belief. People are fed up with being hit over the head with secularism, he says. Hamon, essentially, agrees.
Le Pen says secularism in France is threatened by rising Muslim fundamentalism: demands around dress, around food, around all sorts of issues. Nobody is looking the problem in the face, she says.
Macron, Mélenchon and Hamon all react strongly to this. Macron accuses Le Pen, when she asked him what she thought of the burkini, at the centre of a major debate in France last summer, of trying to “divide French society”.
Updated
at 9.23pm GMT
9.00pm GMT
21:00
Hamon says the proportion of immigrants living in France is fundamentally unchanged for decades. Of 100 people who leave their home country around the world, he says, only four come to Europe.
Le Pen says she wants to “stop immigration. And I will not make any excuses for that”. She says national frontiers must be restored, “we can’t count on Greece”.
France has seven million unemployed people and nine million living in poverty, she says:
We have to put in place a policy to discourage immigration ... I understand why they want to come, but I am there to look after the interests of the French people.
And she says at least four terrorists have entered France as refugees or migrants.
Updated
at 9.01pm GMT
8.53pm GMT
20:53
Immigration
This is a key theme of the campaign.
Macron is first up: the real problem is illegal immigration, he says, and the first priority is an effective policy of sending back to their country of origin those who do not qualify for asylum.
That requires a genuine pan-European immigration and asylum policy, he says. And never forget: someone asking for asylum is someone who has fled a brutal regime. France’s policy must be firm but fair.
Fillon these are often not refugees – the immense majority are men and women fleeing poverty, not a brutal regime. He is in favour of quotas, “a very democratic system”, not for genuine asylum seekers but for economic migrants. “It is a fundamental question of control,” he says.
8.43pm GMT
20:43
Hamon says neighbourhood policing needs to be boosted, and police operating in sensitive areas should get a bonus. Hostility to the police must stop, he says. On the other hand, ID controls must stop discriminating against non-whites.
Mélenchon says that in 10 years, parliament has passed 15 new security laws and none have ever been evaluated. Police are deeply unhappy, he says – but at the same time, “a certain part of the population is afraid of the police”. The “logic of confrontation” must stop.
Macron says it’s important not to exaggerate. But security is a priority, he says. He will create a new form of neighbourhood policing for petty crime and delinquency, with officers able to hand out on-the-spot fines and judges able to order expulsions. Pragmatism, not grand principles, he says.
On a follow-up question, Fillon says the age of criminal responsibility should be lowered to 16 from 18. Macron says that’s not necessary: France already has a functioning justice system for juveniles.
Updated
at 8.45pm GMT
8.36pm GMT
20:36
Security and justice
Le Pen says 12,500 police and gendarmerie posts were cut under the presidency of Nicolas Sarkozy. The security forces must be strengthened, she says.
She wants to create an extra 40,000 prison places, and stiffer penalties. Victims don’t understand why sentences are so short, she says.
#LePen's key challenge in the 1st TV debate is to convince on her economic policy. Already she stressing the security issue at every turn
Fillon says France has the biggest debt of any major country, so Le Pen’s promises are not affordable. But crime and delinquency have increased, he says, so something has to be done.
He suggests relieving police of their administrative burden and bringing in new staff to help. He says 16,000 new prison places will be sufficient – but above all, more respect for the police.
Updated
at 8.56pm GMT
8.28pm GMT
20:28
Le Pen says 50% of primary school time must be devoted to learning French and lessons in children’s mother tongues should be scrapped.
She too says professional training must be improved, and accuses the education ministry of neglecting this.
Schools are not safe places, she says: teaches are insulted and abused. And secularism must be preserved.
Hamon says French schoolchildren have the most demanding days of all pupils in Europe, and proposes limiting primary classes to 25. He says it is essential to hire 20,000 more teachers, and he promises more mixed intakes in secondary school, with larger catchment areas.
Updated
at 8.34pm GMT
8.25pm GMT
20:25
The first question from the two journalists: what social model for France?
Starting with education.
Fillon says 150,000 French school pupils leave school without knowing the fundamentals. He says discipline is important, and school uniforms – almost unknown in France – would underline equality. Teachers should be better paid and better viewed.
Emmanuel Macron says many 10- and 11 year-olds cannot properly read or write. In priority education areas, he says, he wants extra teaching hours and radically reduced class sizes, and far better vocational training.
Mélenchon says he wants to hire far more teachers, and also laments the closure of 170 technical colleges across France in recent years. Vocational training from age 16 is vital, he says.
Updated
at 8.33pm GMT
8.19pm GMT
20:19
Benoit Hamon asks whether the French want to be “warlike” or “fraternal” – what message do we want to send the world, he asks.
I will be an honest, open and fair president, he says; I will turn the page on the old promises.
Updated
at 8.21pm GMT