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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/24/qa-marriage-debate-no-campaigner-struggles-to-explain-concern-for-children
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| Version 1 | Version 2 |
|---|---|
| Q&A marriage debate: no campaigner struggles to explain concern for children | Q&A marriage debate: no campaigner struggles to explain concern for children |
| (about 1 month later) | |
| A leading no campaigner has struggled to articulate her concerns about the impact of same-sex marriage on children, repeatedly saying on Q&A that she had no problems with parenting by gay and lesbian couples. | A leading no campaigner has struggled to articulate her concerns about the impact of same-sex marriage on children, repeatedly saying on Q&A that she had no problems with parenting by gay and lesbian couples. |
| Karina Okotel, a legal aid lawyer and federal vice-president of the Liberal party, told a questioner in the ABC talk show audience she readily accepted his point that “what matters is the love and support” families gave their children “not the form that comes in”. | Karina Okotel, a legal aid lawyer and federal vice-president of the Liberal party, told a questioner in the ABC talk show audience she readily accepted his point that “what matters is the love and support” families gave their children “not the form that comes in”. |
| But Okotel met with quizzical responses from host Tony Jones and co-panelist Magda Szubanski as she tried to draw a distinction between the outcomes of same-sex parenting and issues with children “not knowing their biological parents” if marriage equality is legalised. | But Okotel met with quizzical responses from host Tony Jones and co-panelist Magda Szubanski as she tried to draw a distinction between the outcomes of same-sex parenting and issues with children “not knowing their biological parents” if marriage equality is legalised. |
| Szubanski, the comedian and marriage equality supporter, eventually pressed Okotel on why the rights of children of same-sex couples would be different from those of heterosexual parents who also used “artificial reproductive technology”. | Szubanski, the comedian and marriage equality supporter, eventually pressed Okotel on why the rights of children of same-sex couples would be different from those of heterosexual parents who also used “artificial reproductive technology”. |
| Okotel deflected by saying that was a separate debate for “another night altogether”. | Okotel deflected by saying that was a separate debate for “another night altogether”. |
| Okotel’s audience questioner said he was raised in “two families” after his parents separated in his youth, one with “two mums” and another with a mother and father. | Okotel’s audience questioner said he was raised in “two families” after his parents separated in his youth, one with “two mums” and another with a mother and father. |
| “Both my families are loving ones,” he said. | “Both my families are loving ones,” he said. |
| “From my position experiencing both types of families I can see that what matters is the love and support I receive from both of them, not the form that comes in. Why can’t you accept that?” | “From my position experiencing both types of families I can see that what matters is the love and support I receive from both of them, not the form that comes in. Why can’t you accept that?” |
| Okotel said that he had “misunderstood me perhaps” and that “I really applaud that your families are working well and you’re in a loving family”. | Okotel said that he had “misunderstood me perhaps” and that “I really applaud that your families are working well and you’re in a loving family”. |
| “So we’re not in disagreement there. Where we are, I suppose, in disagreement is the question of marriage, and that’s a different issue altogether.” | “So we’re not in disagreement there. Where we are, I suppose, in disagreement is the question of marriage, and that’s a different issue altogether.” |
| Jones interrupted to ask if Okotel was “perfectly happy for children to be brought up with same-sex parents”. | Jones interrupted to ask if Okotel was “perfectly happy for children to be brought up with same-sex parents”. |
| “I don’t see why not,” she said. | “I don’t see why not,” she said. |
| Szubanski prodded Okotel on concerns she had previously raised about the consequences for “vulnerable children” from same-sex marriage. | Szubanski prodded Okotel on concerns she had previously raised about the consequences for “vulnerable children” from same-sex marriage. |
| .@KarinaOkotel says we can legislate for love. She confirms that she doesn't have a problem with unmarried people parenting #QandA pic.twitter.com/cIg8Muehvu | .@KarinaOkotel says we can legislate for love. She confirms that she doesn't have a problem with unmarried people parenting #QandA pic.twitter.com/cIg8Muehvu |
| Okotel said this issue was “very different to parenting and being raised by same-sex parents, absolutely”. | Okotel said this issue was “very different to parenting and being raised by same-sex parents, absolutely”. |
| “I don’t understand it,” Szubanski said. | “I don’t understand it,” Szubanski said. |
| Okotel said there were good and bad parents among both heterosexual and same-sex couples. | Okotel said there were good and bad parents among both heterosexual and same-sex couples. |
| “But if we are introducing a new institution where same-sex people can get married, marriage is for founding a family, having a family,” she said. | “But if we are introducing a new institution where same-sex people can get married, marriage is for founding a family, having a family,” she said. |
| “What that means is therefore there would be rights for same-sex people to have children and the only way to do that is through the use of assisted reproductive technology. | “What that means is therefore there would be rights for same-sex people to have children and the only way to do that is through the use of assisted reproductive technology. |
| “That raises issues in terms of not knowing your biological parent.” | “That raises issues in terms of not knowing your biological parent.” |
| Okotel later said the idea that “gay people might harm children [as parents] has never entered into my consciousness”. | Okotel later said the idea that “gay people might harm children [as parents] has never entered into my consciousness”. |
| She then faltered momentarily as Jones probed for her precise objection to same sex marriage where it concerned children. | She then faltered momentarily as Jones probed for her precise objection to same sex marriage where it concerned children. |
| Okotel: “I don’t have any issue with gay people parenting.” | Okotel: “I don’t have any issue with gay people parenting.” |
| Jones: “Only if they’re married?” | Jones: “Only if they’re married?” |
| Okotel: “No. I don’t think that homosexual people should be married because when you …” | Okotel: “No. I don’t think that homosexual people should be married because when you …” |
| Why shouldn’t we reduce bullying of kids coming to terms with their sexuality? @KarinaOkotel & @MagdaSzubanski respond #QandA pic.twitter.com/3dGmdUQJyW | Why shouldn’t we reduce bullying of kids coming to terms with their sexuality? @KarinaOkotel & @MagdaSzubanski respond #QandA pic.twitter.com/3dGmdUQJyW |
| Jones: “Is the problem with them bringing up children only when they’re married?” | Jones: “Is the problem with them bringing up children only when they’re married?” |
| Okotel: “I don’t understand.” | Okotel: “I don’t understand.” |
| Jones: “Is it a problem of them bringing up children when they’re married?” | Jones: “Is it a problem of them bringing up children when they’re married?” |
| Okotel: “Sorry, I don’t understand your question.” | Okotel: “Sorry, I don’t understand your question.” |
| Jones: “There’s no problem with people getting married if they’re gay and bringing up children as far as you’re concerned?” | Jones: “There’s no problem with people getting married if they’re gay and bringing up children as far as you’re concerned?” |
| Okotel: “I suppose why I don’t understand your question is people bring up children all the time who are not married, whether they be straight or married. | Okotel: “I suppose why I don’t understand your question is people bring up children all the time who are not married, whether they be straight or married. |
| Will you each accept the result of the postal survey? @FrFrankBrennan @AbpDavies & @MagdaSzubanski respond #QandA pic.twitter.com/iVTlYmNaDR | Will you each accept the result of the postal survey? @FrFrankBrennan @AbpDavies & @MagdaSzubanski respond #QandA pic.twitter.com/iVTlYmNaDR |
| “I don’t have an issue with people parenting in a relationship or unmarried relationship, straight or whatever, as long as they’re good parents.” | “I don’t have an issue with people parenting in a relationship or unmarried relationship, straight or whatever, as long as they’re good parents.” |
| Szubanski returned to the issue, saying she was “a bit perplexed” by Okotel’s “concern about children not knowing their biological parents”. | Szubanski returned to the issue, saying she was “a bit perplexed” by Okotel’s “concern about children not knowing their biological parents”. |
| She asked if this applied to “straight people or just gay people”. | She asked if this applied to “straight people or just gay people”. |
| Okotel said it applied “to everyone”. | Okotel said it applied “to everyone”. |
| “Article seven and eight of the UN convention of the rights of the child does say that children do have a right to know their biological parents and to be raised by them and to know their genetic identity,” she said. | “Article seven and eight of the UN convention of the rights of the child does say that children do have a right to know their biological parents and to be raised by them and to know their genetic identity,” she said. |
| Szubanski said all children “do have that right” regardless. | Szubanski said all children “do have that right” regardless. |
| “Would you be pushing for legislation to stop both gay and straight people from [denying this], is that what you would be doing?” she said. | “Would you be pushing for legislation to stop both gay and straight people from [denying this], is that what you would be doing?” she said. |
| Okotel said this was not “what we’re debating” and that she had not “turned my mind to changing the legislation to do with artificial reproductive technology”. | Okotel said this was not “what we’re debating” and that she had not “turned my mind to changing the legislation to do with artificial reproductive technology”. |
| “[That’s for] another night altogether.” | “[That’s for] another night altogether.” |
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| Same-sex marriage postal survey | Same-sex marriage postal survey |
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