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| No trolling, no threats, no swearing: the Manhattan mothers’ very civil war | No trolling, no threats, no swearing: the Manhattan mothers’ very civil war |
| (about 1 month later) | |
| Something exciting happened in the world of online mothers’ forums this week, and it wasn’t a list of 10 new ways to spy on your nanny. In Britain there is Mumsnet; in New York, until recently, there was the Upper East Side Mommas group, a Facebook community of some 28,000 women that many went to for the advice – but stayed for the fights. | Something exciting happened in the world of online mothers’ forums this week, and it wasn’t a list of 10 new ways to spy on your nanny. In Britain there is Mumsnet; in New York, until recently, there was the Upper East Side Mommas group, a Facebook community of some 28,000 women that many went to for the advice – but stayed for the fights. |
| A vibrant group crumbled because adults can’t tolerate other adults expressing passionate counter-views | A vibrant group crumbled because adults can’t tolerate other adults expressing passionate counter-views |
| So many fights! There were the fights about vaccinations. There was the saga of the Spitting Woman, a homeless woman on Manhattan’s Upper East Side who spat at people and their children, and whom members of the group variously regarded as a threat (“heartless”) or a victim (“self-righteous”). In August, two members of the group had their lawyers send four other members a cease-and-desist letter after being called racist during an argument about Black Lives Matter. | So many fights! There were the fights about vaccinations. There was the saga of the Spitting Woman, a homeless woman on Manhattan’s Upper East Side who spat at people and their children, and whom members of the group variously regarded as a threat (“heartless”) or a victim (“self-righteous”). In August, two members of the group had their lawyers send four other members a cease-and-desist letter after being called racist during an argument about Black Lives Matter. |
| Punctuating these disputes was a series of increasingly desperate pleas for civility from the group’s founder (“bottom line, please be respectful”). But last week, a fight that broke out over Israel/Palestine proved too much for her nerves; after a few days of fierce back and forth, during which everyone involved accused everyone else of denying them a right to exist, the group was shut down. | Punctuating these disputes was a series of increasingly desperate pleas for civility from the group’s founder (“bottom line, please be respectful”). But last week, a fight that broke out over Israel/Palestine proved too much for her nerves; after a few days of fierce back and forth, during which everyone involved accused everyone else of denying them a right to exist, the group was shut down. |
| Two things stood out about this: the apparent inability of anyone involved to end matters simply by walking away. And the extent to which, in this exclusively female discursive space, many of those involved evoked their hurt feelings. | Two things stood out about this: the apparent inability of anyone involved to end matters simply by walking away. And the extent to which, in this exclusively female discursive space, many of those involved evoked their hurt feelings. |
| Actually, there was a bigger takeaway, which was that, in spite of the heat of the debate, nothing on those pages fell outside even the strictest general user standards. There were no apparent trolls at work, no threats, no swearing, no violence, no straying off topic into lurid fantasies of what one hoped might happen to those whose views one disagreed with. The fight in this Mommas group was about as civil as a forum can get on the internet, without being devoid of meaningful exchange. | Actually, there was a bigger takeaway, which was that, in spite of the heat of the debate, nothing on those pages fell outside even the strictest general user standards. There were no apparent trolls at work, no threats, no swearing, no violence, no straying off topic into lurid fantasies of what one hoped might happen to those whose views one disagreed with. The fight in this Mommas group was about as civil as a forum can get on the internet, without being devoid of meaningful exchange. |
| This feels like a female thing and something to be celebrated. Less so, the descent into weepy recrimination. This isn’t the week to tell women to toughen up, but still: it seems a shame that what had been a vibrant and interesting group crumbled because adults can’t tolerate hearing other adults express passionately held counter-views. | This feels like a female thing and something to be celebrated. Less so, the descent into weepy recrimination. This isn’t the week to tell women to toughen up, but still: it seems a shame that what had been a vibrant and interesting group crumbled because adults can’t tolerate hearing other adults express passionately held counter-views. |
| The undiluted proof | The undiluted proof |
| “Charlie Rose!” a friend texted me earlier this week. | “Charlie Rose!” a friend texted me earlier this week. |
| “Dead?” I replied, about the CBS host. It couldn’t, surely, be the other thing. | “Dead?” I replied, about the CBS host. It couldn’t, surely, be the other thing. |
| “Not dead. The other thing,” he wrote back. | “Not dead. The other thing,” he wrote back. |
| “Oh no, groper!” | “Oh no, groper!” |
| And still they come, along with creeping usage of the terms “impact erosion” or “dilution” to describe the effect of incidents that range in severity being grouped in a single story. | And still they come, along with creeping usage of the terms “impact erosion” or “dilution” to describe the effect of incidents that range in severity being grouped in a single story. |
| Why is it so hard for some people to understand this? That highlighting a less serious manifestation of a trend strengthens – rather than undermines – proof of that trend’s far-reaching existence. | Why is it so hard for some people to understand this? That highlighting a less serious manifestation of a trend strengthens – rather than undermines – proof of that trend’s far-reaching existence. |
| Rose and fall | Rose and fall |
| The pathology of the men involved is perhaps not worth dwelling on for too long, but Charlie Rose did give me pause. The closest I came to him was many years ago across a room, and he seemed – like many of those who spend the greater parts of their life on television – exceedingly self-satisfied and vaguely repulsive. | The pathology of the men involved is perhaps not worth dwelling on for too long, but Charlie Rose did give me pause. The closest I came to him was many years ago across a room, and he seemed – like many of those who spend the greater parts of their life on television – exceedingly self-satisfied and vaguely repulsive. |
| It seems to me that as transgressors like Rose are exposed, the surprise many of us feel is rooted in the very modern habit of boiling people down to units of political meaning. | It seems to me that as transgressors like Rose are exposed, the surprise many of us feel is rooted in the very modern habit of boiling people down to units of political meaning. |
| For liberals, Rose fell in the “good” column, and that was the end of that – a weird and rather pinched understanding not only of him, but of ourselves. | For liberals, Rose fell in the “good” column, and that was the end of that – a weird and rather pinched understanding not only of him, but of ourselves. |
| If we are multiplicities, it should be no more surprising that people with “good” politics are capable of doing “bad” things than Stalin having an appreciation for Balzac. | If we are multiplicities, it should be no more surprising that people with “good” politics are capable of doing “bad” things than Stalin having an appreciation for Balzac. |
| • Emma Brockes is a Guardian columnist | • Emma Brockes is a Guardian columnist |
| Parents and parenting | Parents and parenting |
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