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| Huawei boss pushes case for Chinese firm to build 5G network – politics live | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| I am ashamed to admit I had no idea it was Territory Day. | |
| Luke Gosling, the member for Solomon, did not. | |
| He donned a safari suit and sang Meatloaf in the chamber, in honour of the occasion: | |
| Ed Husic was asked about Ross Hart’s radio interview: | |
| Well, okay. A number of feelings. So you’re telling me that a first term back bencher has had not a smooth ride in a radio interview. Having been there, done that myself as a first term back bencher you learn quite quickly. I haven’t heard the interview with Ross. Obviously I’ve heard that it has taken place and he will put that down as a learning experience, no doubt. I think the bigger thing to take out is this: a lot of people getting very excited about the company tax news over the last 24 hours. No one is surprised by the fact that Labor has been saying for some time that in a context where you’re seeing all these budget cuts being born by ordinary Australians, a government saying you have to cop those cuts because of what’s called a debt and deficit disaster, and then coming out of the blue and saying we’ll hand $80 billion in corporate tax cuts… | |
| “....So we’ve been talking about this for a while: affordability. You know, there’s a place in time for these types of cuts to be contemplated. It ain’t now. So no one should be surprised that Labor has been saying we need to have moderation applied and we need to make this call when the time is right. No one should be surprised. But I know you had some other questions.JOURNALIST: Was yesterday the right time?HUSIC: Sorry. Was there somewhere on the diaries that said there was a particular day that was the right time? It was always going to be a decision and we’ve still got to go through the internal processes by the way. So there will always be people that will be upset when you potentially deny them the benefit of a of a tax cut. You are always going to have that, it will be a little bit itchy. But the reality is no one can say Labor has not been arguing for some time that we need to make sure that the stuff that is being proposed is affordable given that ordinary Australians are feeling the pinch of two things: Budget cuts and a flat wages environment.JOURNALIST: So you back your leader’s decision, Ed?HUSIC: Absolutely. Well look…JOURNALIST: Well why was it so hard for Ross to say that?HUSIC: Let me say this. We’ve still got to go through the internal processes. We don’t always find out at caucus, so we’ll find out through co-workers, committees, the decisions will be known by the caucus and the caucus will make decisions accordingly. But you know there will not be a lot of surprise in the minds of many given what we’ve been saying about company tax cuts. Ultimately when the Shadow Cabinet makes its decision and that’s communicated at Caucus and the decision’s held at Caucus. That’ll work its way out. As to whether or not people should have their heart palpitations send them into a frenzy. Well that’s up to them, but it ain’t working with me.” | |
| John Lord says Huawei is open to debate – but doesn’t like “throwaway lines” becoming fact in Australia, without, well, facts: | |
| “So it’s this information, these throwaway lines, like ‘don’t use a Huawei phone because [of the security risk]’. Proof, why? I don’t know. | |
| “But, you know, it’s these throwaway lines that are coming in being repeated, particularly in the media, ladies and gentlemen, without proof, without any substantiation, that worries me more that. Is the type of mud that is sticking and people saying, “Oh”, but there’s nothing there behind it. | |
| “I don’t mind people put up facts that we can have a discussion and talk about. But not throwaway lines that tend to be passed across and often come into Australia.” | |
| Ross Hart has tweeted, after his interview with LA FM made it on to the mainland (see a few posts back). Everything is cool, he says. | |
| 1/2 In case there’s any doubt, I absolutely support our position on company tax. I’ve always backed tax cuts for small business – and big business should not get tax cuts that are funded by cuts to schools & hospitals. | |
| 2/2 Tasmania & Australia need a Labor Govt with Bill Shorten as PM, because only Bill has a plan for better schools, better hospitals and better income tax cuts.#auspol | |
| Michelle Grattan wants to know what John Lord thinks of Australia’s intelligence agencies – given their warnings against involving Huawei in telecommunications frameworks: | |
| It is a matter of supposition they are saying that. I don’t know they are saying that. I have not been told by one minister. I have not been told by one person in the what I call real authority that they are actually saying that. | |
| I was debriefed over the NBN decision many years ago. And as far as I’m concerned the interactions I’ve had with government bodies since then have not indicated that the intelligence community is actually briefing heavily against Huawei. | |
| OK, there is a lot of information fed to the media and one assumes that there is some people in organisations that do that. Yes, I have every faith in our intelligence community and every faith in our institutions. I always have. | |
| Our point as Huawei is that when all this information comes up to the surface, it is looked at openly, looked at in a broad framework. I am concerned they have a lot of information coming to Australia from overseas and it’s not proven. | |
| I’d hate for that to taint any decision in Australia. The decisions made in Australia must be made in the national interest. As I said, they must be based on fact and I hope it’s an open discussion where there are concerns, we can explain our position and others can keep raising questions. At the moment that is still happening. | |
| He later clarifies in another question that he wasn’t briefed on what the intelligence agencies said about Huawei’s involvement in the NBN: | |
| I will be open and honest and say we were told that we would no longer be allowed to bid for NBN contracts and it was based on not that we have done anything wrong, quote unquote, and it was just based that we were a Chinese company and they could not guarantee our equipment at that time. | |
| Primrose Riordan from the Australian, who has written some excellent articles on China and the challenges its emergence on the global market is creating, asked Lord whether or not he senses a mood change against Chinese tech firms. | |
| Lord says: | |
| I have seen it written in the media that Huawei will be banned from 5G. We are having long, involved discussions with government at all levels. We will continue to do so. There is an openness to learn more about 5G. 5G is still a learning experience for – even for companies like Huawei and our two main competitors, Ericsson and Nokia, who are driving the global standards in Europe. | |
| That is what we’re talking a lot to the Australian government about – what the standards are saying, who’s happening, the trends, how 5G is split up from core and non-core. | |
| So, there’s a lot of those discussions to go on. As far as we’re concerned, Huawei can still be part of 5G in Australia. Nothing has been said to me that would change my belief. | |
| You have then gone into the international arena. What is happening in the US is for the US. Huawei has a very small business in the US now. It is probably of less interest. You were indicating that Chinese goods and that are shrinking or the sales are. | |
| Huawei has continued to grow at quite considerable amounts. We’re not seeing a drop-off. There is less in the mobile market – that’s true. That is more competitive. But in the telecom infrastructure sector, with the move to 5G technologies coming along, we see a large growth in this sector. That is what we’re preparing ourselves for. | |
| Over at the Press Club, John Lord has addressed Huawei’s likely ban in developing Australia’s 5G telecommunications network as he finishes his speech: | Over at the Press Club, John Lord has addressed Huawei’s likely ban in developing Australia’s 5G telecommunications network as he finishes his speech: |
| Huawei or no Huawei – much of the 5G equipment that we will use in Australia will be manufactured in China. Now, most of the 170 countries around the where we operate will see the next generation of Huawei equipment rapidly deployed into one or more of their national networks. | |
| Adopting 5G will not be that difficult. Carriers with a reliable 4G foundation will be able to easily move to 5G. Having said that, it won’t be quick. Telecoms have still got to find profitable business models. We are working with the major global operators for their 5G trials. With Vodafone, we undertook the world’s first 5G call. | |
| ... We lead the global patents for 5G technology and will spend about US$700m on 5G development this year alone. Australia shouldn’t miss out on this world-leading technology being part of its global mix and competition. | |
| Australia cannot sit back and isolate itself from the technology rise happening in Asia. To do so would impact on us economically and remove ourselves from world-leading technologies, while our trading competitors take full advantage of better technology, cheaper costs for that technology and benefit from the productivity gains that will flow. | |
| Decisions taken today will shape the environment of tomorrow. As we enter the 2020s Australia’s economic and social fabric will be determined by its telecommunications capabilities. | |
| In an increasingly digital and connected world, every country is turbo-charging its communications to meet the insatiable demand for data, which will increase even more in the future. | |
| With a vast continent like Australia, we need the best telecommunications to keep us on that road of digital prosperity. | |
| The suggestions that Huawei, the largest provider of 4G technology in Australia today, should be banned from building 5G networks here should be a concern for everyone and particularly Australian businesses. | |
| The implications about limiting access to technology competition could be high and it’s a short-term small-mind choice, rather than seeking to incorporate the technologies from these new companies in a solution that also secures our critical trucks. | |
| Our allies are finding ways to embrace the new world. The time is now for we in Australia to do the same. We respect the open debate. As long as that debate is based on facts and is fully informed. | |
| We respect the right of any government, and every government, to consider national risk and national security. Huawei is always open to discuss the best options to enable Australia to have access to the best technology that is safe and secure for its citizens. | |
| In saying no to one of the leading 5G suppliers in the world, what are we really doing? This is not just a tough political decision. This is a long-term technology decision that could impact our growth and our productivity for generations to come. We believe Huawei has the capability, the openness, transparency and a track record globally to be part of this future for Australia. | |
| And on Mark Latham (who is a member of the Liberal Democrats), David Leyonhjelm said he hasn’t spoken to him in a few weeks, and there is no update on whether he will run for the party. | And on Mark Latham (who is a member of the Liberal Democrats), David Leyonhjelm said he hasn’t spoken to him in a few weeks, and there is no update on whether he will run for the party. |
| “There is a discussion going on within the party about whether we run him as a candidate,” Leyonhjelm said. | “There is a discussion going on within the party about whether we run him as a candidate,” Leyonhjelm said. |
| “If we do, do we run him in state or federal? In either case, do we run him in the upper house or lower house, in a winnable spot, or a non-winnable spot? That debate is still going on and we haven’t reached any final position at all. | “If we do, do we run him in state or federal? In either case, do we run him in the upper house or lower house, in a winnable spot, or a non-winnable spot? That debate is still going on and we haven’t reached any final position at all. |
| “And, to be quite honest, I am not sure Mark himself has reached a final position on it all.” | “And, to be quite honest, I am not sure Mark himself has reached a final position on it all.” |
| Leyonhjelm said it was “fairly unlikely” that Latham, if he did decide to run, would replace him on the Lib Dem Senate ticket. | Leyonhjelm said it was “fairly unlikely” that Latham, if he did decide to run, would replace him on the Lib Dem Senate ticket. |
| “There is also a question about whether Mark is the right person to replace us, when he may well be the only person representing the Liberal Democrats in parliament – that is another big threshold issue.” | “There is also a question about whether Mark is the right person to replace us, when he may well be the only person representing the Liberal Democrats in parliament – that is another big threshold issue.” |
| Is that, as host Tom Connell asked, because Latham supports about 90% of Liberal Democrat policies, but isn’t entirely on board with all of the party’s platform? | Is that, as host Tom Connell asked, because Latham supports about 90% of Liberal Democrat policies, but isn’t entirely on board with all of the party’s platform? |
| “Correct,” Leyonhjelm said. | “Correct,” Leyonhjelm said. |
| David Leyonhjelm wants to overturn the legislation that stops the ACT and NT from being able to make their own laws on assisted suicide. | David Leyonhjelm wants to overturn the legislation that stops the ACT and NT from being able to make their own laws on assisted suicide. |
| He told Sky News that the most important thing in any euthanasia legislation is “informed consent” – so he doesn’t think you can assume consent for someone with dementia or mental health issues. | He told Sky News that the most important thing in any euthanasia legislation is “informed consent” – so he doesn’t think you can assume consent for someone with dementia or mental health issues. |
| “We are talking about assisted suicide,” he said. “We are not talking about putting people out of their misery, it is not like putting a dog down, and I have done thousands of them when I was a vet. | “We are talking about assisted suicide,” he said. “We are not talking about putting people out of their misery, it is not like putting a dog down, and I have done thousands of them when I was a vet. |
| “And it’s not that at all. This is helping people to die who would die by their own means, if they were able to, if they weren’t physically infirm.” | “And it’s not that at all. This is helping people to die who would die by their own means, if they were able to, if they weren’t physically infirm.” |
| Labor frontbencher Mark Butler, speaking on Sky a little earlier, said he was entirely comfortable with Labor’s corporate tax plan: | Labor frontbencher Mark Butler, speaking on Sky a little earlier, said he was entirely comfortable with Labor’s corporate tax plan: |
| I’m not going to go into the premise of your introduction, Ashleigh, about discussions within shadow cabinet. Obviously they are always confidential, always have been both in opposition and government of both political persuasions. But I’m entirely comfortable with the announcement that Bill Shorten made yesterday. | I’m not going to go into the premise of your introduction, Ashleigh, about discussions within shadow cabinet. Obviously they are always confidential, always have been both in opposition and government of both political persuasions. But I’m entirely comfortable with the announcement that Bill Shorten made yesterday. |
| I think people understood our position about company tax cuts essentially for two reasons. The first is that we see other priorities in the budget. For example, not making Australian workers work till age 70 to qualify for the aged pension, not cutting the energy supplement of hundreds of thousands of pensioners, and not making the cuts to schools and hospitals that Malcolm Turnbull is making. | I think people understood our position about company tax cuts essentially for two reasons. The first is that we see other priorities in the budget. For example, not making Australian workers work till age 70 to qualify for the aged pension, not cutting the energy supplement of hundreds of thousands of pensioners, and not making the cuts to schools and hospitals that Malcolm Turnbull is making. |
| We also think there is a better way to support businesses that want to engage in actual investment. That is why Chris Bowen’s announcement of the Australian investment guarantee will provide a direct incentive to businesses that actually invest rather than an across-the-board company tax cut that goes to businesses regardless of what they do with the money. | We also think there is a better way to support businesses that want to engage in actual investment. That is why Chris Bowen’s announcement of the Australian investment guarantee will provide a direct incentive to businesses that actually invest rather than an across-the-board company tax cut that goes to businesses regardless of what they do with the money. |
| Over at the National Press Club, John Lord is speaking on how Huawei’s presence in the Australian market has driven competition and reduced costs: | Over at the National Press Club, John Lord is speaking on how Huawei’s presence in the Australian market has driven competition and reduced costs: |
| I’ll bring you something from the Q&A session when it starts. | I’ll bring you something from the Q&A session when it starts. |
| While we are on morning radio interviews, Tasmanian Labor MP Ross Hart didn’t have a great one with Brian Carlton on LA FM this morning. | While we are on morning radio interviews, Tasmanian Labor MP Ross Hart didn’t have a great one with Brian Carlton on LA FM this morning. |
| David Crowe over at Fairfax caught that one. | David Crowe over at Fairfax caught that one. |
| From Crowe’s report: | From Crowe’s report: |
| The leader has announced that he would support a reduction in, I’m sorry, a repeal of the tax rate. It has not been discussed, as I understand, by shadow cabinet,” Mr Hart said. | The leader has announced that he would support a reduction in, I’m sorry, a repeal of the tax rate. It has not been discussed, as I understand, by shadow cabinet,” Mr Hart said. |
| When Carlton interrupted to point out the “equivocation” in this answer and to ask again if the Labor MP backed his leader, Mr Hart dodged the question again. | When Carlton interrupted to point out the “equivocation” in this answer and to ask again if the Labor MP backed his leader, Mr Hart dodged the question again. |
| “I would support businesses in northern Tasmania, and Tasmania generally, being profitable and making a profit so that they can pay tax, irrespective of whether there’s going to be a tax cut at a particular tax rate or not.” | “I would support businesses in northern Tasmania, and Tasmania generally, being profitable and making a profit so that they can pay tax, irrespective of whether there’s going to be a tax cut at a particular tax rate or not.” |
| Carlton interrupted to ask again: “Do you back the leader?” | Carlton interrupted to ask again: “Do you back the leader?” |
| Mr Hart: “That’s a matter that’s been announced by Mr Shorten.” | Mr Hart: “That’s a matter that’s been announced by Mr Shorten.” |
| Carlton: “So you don’t Ross … you don’t support what your leader’s done?” | Carlton: “So you don’t Ross … you don’t support what your leader’s done?” |
| Mr Hart: “I’m not saying that, Brian, I’m not saying that.” | Mr Hart: “I’m not saying that, Brian, I’m not saying that.” |
| Carlton: “But you’re not saying you agree with him, either.” | Carlton: “But you’re not saying you agree with him, either.” |
| Mr Hart: “Let’s have a conversation about that another time.” | Mr Hart: “Let’s have a conversation about that another time.” |
| LA FM have put the interview up | LA FM have put the interview up |
| Anthony Albanese and Christopher Pyne both appeared for their weekly scheduled chat with Adelaide radio 5AA. | Anthony Albanese and Christopher Pyne both appeared for their weekly scheduled chat with Adelaide radio 5AA. |
| Labor has released the transcript. This is the first time we’ve heard from Albo (in detail) since the Whitlam address last Friday: | Labor has released the transcript. This is the first time we’ve heard from Albo (in detail) since the Whitlam address last Friday: |
| HOST: We will kick off with you if we can, thanks Albo. Now last Friday, in a very widely reported speech, and a pretty well received speech, you talked about how it is important for Labor to maintain a strong working relationship with the business community. Fast forward five days and we have seen Bill Shorten unilaterally embrace a tax position which reportedly does not have the support or the endorsement of caucus or indeed even shadow cabinet, which could see businesses – very small businesses – with a turnover as low as $2m – being stripped of tax relief. Is Bill Shorten’s position an example of exactly what you were warning against?ALBANESE: No. Labor is engaged with business, including small business. One of the things that we did when we were last in government of course was do the instant asset write-off that was opposed by the Coalition at the time and, indeed, when they came to government they abolished it. Then they brought it back and pretended it was their policy, having said it was a bad idea. It was good policy and it is good that it is there now and one of [the] things that we have also said for businesses of whatever size is the investment guarantee for investment of a 20% discount for investment above $20,000, excluding only passenger vehicles, so it would apply for utes and capital equipment and that sort of investment to encourage that support.HOST: What about current policy? What about this policy and particularly what about the way it has been handled by Bill Shorten?ALBANESE: Well, we opposed of course these changes in the House of Representatives and in the Senate when they were debated and dealt with on the floor of both of those chambers over the last year and a bit.HOST: But are you surprised and troubled, as other shadow ministers reportedly are, that Bill Shorten could be advocating a threshold as low as $2m for taking tax cuts away from very small businesses?ALBANESE: Well, what Bill said yesterday is that shadow cabinet will consider the issue of businesses with a turnover between $2m and $10m and that will be a decision that we’ll make at an appropriate time and announce.HOST: No one has yet, as far as I understand, given you the opportunity to have your say about what you think about the tax cuts being wound back for businesses between $10m and $50m. Bill Shorten came out and made the announcement yesterday without consulting. What would you have said if he asked?ALBANESE: Well I think that Bill Shorten has got a right to announce Labor policy. He did that. He did that consistent with the way that Labor had voted in the House of Representatives and the Senate when these changes were considered.HOST: So if he asked you, you would have said yes?ALBANESE: Well, it is a matter of priorities. It’s a matter of whether the priority is for education or for health and or for infrastructure for that matter and Labor has clearly said that our priority is education, is health, is infrastructure, is paying down the debt, is making sure that we’ve been fiscally responsible so we have had a number of policy announcements, indeed more than oppositions in the past have done, and that is a good thing – the fact that we have so much policy out there.HOST: Albo, your speech last Friday was widely reported as you putting yourself out there in the leadership context and saying I am available for the top job. Is that a valid analysis of your speech?ALBANESE: No it is not. If you look at speeches I have given for similar occasions in the past few years, be it the Light on the Hill function that is held in Bathurst, the Earle Page lecture that is done in Armidale at the University of New England, the Eddie Graham lecture, which is done in Wagga Wagga in rural New South Wales – on each of these occasions I always give considered speeches - not about what happened in question time that day. I mean for goodness sake, the Whitlam Oration, and I make no …HOST: They key criticism of Bill Shorten right now is that he is too anti-business. The key point you made in your speech is that Labor needs to be more pro-business.ALBANESE: Well that wasn’t the key point. That was one of a range of points that I made, was that Labor has to appeal to not just members of trade unions, but we have to appeal to small businesses, to people who are contractors, to people who are professionals and aren’t in any union and that’s just common sense. And that’s what Labor governments do. That’s what I did and Bill did and others all did as members of the Rudd and Gillard governments. That’s what Hawke and Keating did. That’s what Whitlam did. That’s what modern Labor is about.HOST: Or should be about?ALBANESE: No. That is what modern Labor is about and Bill Shorten, Chris Bowen, we all have extensive relationships with the business community. We are sitting in Canberra this week, I have a business lunch on Friday which is all about that engagement that we have with the community and indeed the NSW state conference of the Labor party is being held on the weekend. There will be business observers there and I have a range of meetings with them on Friday and indeed on Saturday.HOST: So Albo, if you are comfortable with the manner in which Bill Shorten, as you are saying, he is well within his right to make an announcement repealing those tax cuts, make the case to small business owners listening right now about why they should pay more tax and will pay more tax under Labor.ALBANESE: Well the fact is that a number of – you’ve got to look at the policy as a whole and I think the support for the investment guarantee that we are putting forward will be worth more than the tax changes, which come in over a period of time, of course, for businesses between $10m and $50m and that will be of significantly more benefit for them. And that is something that the current government opposes and all businesses know that we need a strong economy and that having a strong economy means making difficult decisions in terms of investment in education and training and skills for example, something that businesses say to me they are suffering from as they can’t get a skilled workforce.HOST: Chris Pyne, you’ve been very polite and very patient. I’m going to bring you in now.ALBANESE: I thought he wasn’t here. I thought he hadn’t turned up.PYNE: I thought you were doing a lovely job trying to dig yourself out of a hole there. So I thought I would let you keep doing it.HOST: Now Chris, you’ve been an MP since the early 1990s.PYNE: Since the early 1890s.ALBANESE: He’s a very old man.HOST: You’ve seen a lot of leadership dramas in that time. Does what’s happening in the Labor party now look to you like a leadership battle?PYNE: Look there’s absolutely no doubt that Bill Shorten has said he’s going to have a war on business. He wants the unions front and centre of Labor party policy-making. He wants the CFMEU to be involved in every forum. And he’s repudiated the aspiration of Australians, that the Hawke-Keating government understood, that Keating’s actually criticised modern Labor for, because Hawke and Keating got that Australians are aspirational. It’s why they were a successful Labor party. And Bill Shorten says he’s not going to do that. He wants to increase personal income taxes at the next election by $70bn. And yesterday he’s about to kick small businesses in the teeth and South Australia is a small and medium-enterprise state.And yet Anthony Albanese on Friday last week said that they had to remember that the unions are small part now of the workforce. It’s not 1950 anymore, he said. He said that Labor needed to be close to business and co-operate with business and that they should remember the Hawke-Keating legacy and that Australians are aspirational. So, Anthony stated a very, very clear contradiction to Bill Shorten. And that’s why the speech has had such a great run over the last few days, because everyone can see that Bill Shorten is now a man on borrowed time.And yesterday he reacted under pressure, announced without consultation with his party room or his frontbench, that Labor would roll back the company tax cuts for small businesses. So now 94,000 small businesses across Australia have a motivation to campaign against Labor because if Labor gets elected they’ll have their company taxes increased. If Labor gets elected people’s personal income tax will increase.And Bill Shorten’s saying people on $95,000 a year are the top end of town. He’s now saying that small businesses with a turnover of more than $2m are the top end of town. He’s boxed himself in because he lives day to day. And what Anthony said last Friday was that Labor should stop living day to day and look at their history and have a vision for the future and that’s why we’re talking about Labor party leadership.HOST: There will be more to come on this over the coming days, we’re sure. Chris Pyne and Anthony Albanese, thanks so much for joining us this morning for Two Tribes.PYNE: It was a great pleasure this morning.ALBANESE: Good to be with you. I’m glad Christopher got a crack.PYNE: It was a good crack. | HOST: We will kick off with you if we can, thanks Albo. Now last Friday, in a very widely reported speech, and a pretty well received speech, you talked about how it is important for Labor to maintain a strong working relationship with the business community. Fast forward five days and we have seen Bill Shorten unilaterally embrace a tax position which reportedly does not have the support or the endorsement of caucus or indeed even shadow cabinet, which could see businesses – very small businesses – with a turnover as low as $2m – being stripped of tax relief. Is Bill Shorten’s position an example of exactly what you were warning against?ALBANESE: No. Labor is engaged with business, including small business. One of the things that we did when we were last in government of course was do the instant asset write-off that was opposed by the Coalition at the time and, indeed, when they came to government they abolished it. Then they brought it back and pretended it was their policy, having said it was a bad idea. It was good policy and it is good that it is there now and one of [the] things that we have also said for businesses of whatever size is the investment guarantee for investment of a 20% discount for investment above $20,000, excluding only passenger vehicles, so it would apply for utes and capital equipment and that sort of investment to encourage that support.HOST: What about current policy? What about this policy and particularly what about the way it has been handled by Bill Shorten?ALBANESE: Well, we opposed of course these changes in the House of Representatives and in the Senate when they were debated and dealt with on the floor of both of those chambers over the last year and a bit.HOST: But are you surprised and troubled, as other shadow ministers reportedly are, that Bill Shorten could be advocating a threshold as low as $2m for taking tax cuts away from very small businesses?ALBANESE: Well, what Bill said yesterday is that shadow cabinet will consider the issue of businesses with a turnover between $2m and $10m and that will be a decision that we’ll make at an appropriate time and announce.HOST: No one has yet, as far as I understand, given you the opportunity to have your say about what you think about the tax cuts being wound back for businesses between $10m and $50m. Bill Shorten came out and made the announcement yesterday without consulting. What would you have said if he asked?ALBANESE: Well I think that Bill Shorten has got a right to announce Labor policy. He did that. He did that consistent with the way that Labor had voted in the House of Representatives and the Senate when these changes were considered.HOST: So if he asked you, you would have said yes?ALBANESE: Well, it is a matter of priorities. It’s a matter of whether the priority is for education or for health and or for infrastructure for that matter and Labor has clearly said that our priority is education, is health, is infrastructure, is paying down the debt, is making sure that we’ve been fiscally responsible so we have had a number of policy announcements, indeed more than oppositions in the past have done, and that is a good thing – the fact that we have so much policy out there.HOST: Albo, your speech last Friday was widely reported as you putting yourself out there in the leadership context and saying I am available for the top job. Is that a valid analysis of your speech?ALBANESE: No it is not. If you look at speeches I have given for similar occasions in the past few years, be it the Light on the Hill function that is held in Bathurst, the Earle Page lecture that is done in Armidale at the University of New England, the Eddie Graham lecture, which is done in Wagga Wagga in rural New South Wales – on each of these occasions I always give considered speeches - not about what happened in question time that day. I mean for goodness sake, the Whitlam Oration, and I make no …HOST: They key criticism of Bill Shorten right now is that he is too anti-business. The key point you made in your speech is that Labor needs to be more pro-business.ALBANESE: Well that wasn’t the key point. That was one of a range of points that I made, was that Labor has to appeal to not just members of trade unions, but we have to appeal to small businesses, to people who are contractors, to people who are professionals and aren’t in any union and that’s just common sense. And that’s what Labor governments do. That’s what I did and Bill did and others all did as members of the Rudd and Gillard governments. That’s what Hawke and Keating did. That’s what Whitlam did. That’s what modern Labor is about.HOST: Or should be about?ALBANESE: No. That is what modern Labor is about and Bill Shorten, Chris Bowen, we all have extensive relationships with the business community. We are sitting in Canberra this week, I have a business lunch on Friday which is all about that engagement that we have with the community and indeed the NSW state conference of the Labor party is being held on the weekend. There will be business observers there and I have a range of meetings with them on Friday and indeed on Saturday.HOST: So Albo, if you are comfortable with the manner in which Bill Shorten, as you are saying, he is well within his right to make an announcement repealing those tax cuts, make the case to small business owners listening right now about why they should pay more tax and will pay more tax under Labor.ALBANESE: Well the fact is that a number of – you’ve got to look at the policy as a whole and I think the support for the investment guarantee that we are putting forward will be worth more than the tax changes, which come in over a period of time, of course, for businesses between $10m and $50m and that will be of significantly more benefit for them. And that is something that the current government opposes and all businesses know that we need a strong economy and that having a strong economy means making difficult decisions in terms of investment in education and training and skills for example, something that businesses say to me they are suffering from as they can’t get a skilled workforce.HOST: Chris Pyne, you’ve been very polite and very patient. I’m going to bring you in now.ALBANESE: I thought he wasn’t here. I thought he hadn’t turned up.PYNE: I thought you were doing a lovely job trying to dig yourself out of a hole there. So I thought I would let you keep doing it.HOST: Now Chris, you’ve been an MP since the early 1990s.PYNE: Since the early 1890s.ALBANESE: He’s a very old man.HOST: You’ve seen a lot of leadership dramas in that time. Does what’s happening in the Labor party now look to you like a leadership battle?PYNE: Look there’s absolutely no doubt that Bill Shorten has said he’s going to have a war on business. He wants the unions front and centre of Labor party policy-making. He wants the CFMEU to be involved in every forum. And he’s repudiated the aspiration of Australians, that the Hawke-Keating government understood, that Keating’s actually criticised modern Labor for, because Hawke and Keating got that Australians are aspirational. It’s why they were a successful Labor party. And Bill Shorten says he’s not going to do that. He wants to increase personal income taxes at the next election by $70bn. And yesterday he’s about to kick small businesses in the teeth and South Australia is a small and medium-enterprise state.And yet Anthony Albanese on Friday last week said that they had to remember that the unions are small part now of the workforce. It’s not 1950 anymore, he said. He said that Labor needed to be close to business and co-operate with business and that they should remember the Hawke-Keating legacy and that Australians are aspirational. So, Anthony stated a very, very clear contradiction to Bill Shorten. And that’s why the speech has had such a great run over the last few days, because everyone can see that Bill Shorten is now a man on borrowed time.And yesterday he reacted under pressure, announced without consultation with his party room or his frontbench, that Labor would roll back the company tax cuts for small businesses. So now 94,000 small businesses across Australia have a motivation to campaign against Labor because if Labor gets elected they’ll have their company taxes increased. If Labor gets elected people’s personal income tax will increase.And Bill Shorten’s saying people on $95,000 a year are the top end of town. He’s now saying that small businesses with a turnover of more than $2m are the top end of town. He’s boxed himself in because he lives day to day. And what Anthony said last Friday was that Labor should stop living day to day and look at their history and have a vision for the future and that’s why we’re talking about Labor party leadership.HOST: There will be more to come on this over the coming days, we’re sure. Chris Pyne and Anthony Albanese, thanks so much for joining us this morning for Two Tribes.PYNE: It was a great pleasure this morning.ALBANESE: Good to be with you. I’m glad Christopher got a crack.PYNE: It was a good crack. |