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Fifield declines to say whether Justin Milne should remain ABC chairman – live Justin Milne's position as ABC chair 'untenable', Labor says – live
(35 minutes later)
On whether the inquiry ordered by Mitch Fifield is enough, Tanya Plibersek gives a pretty good, yeah, nah: While we wait to see if the board has resolved to ask Justin Milne to step down or not (trust us, the phone calls are flying everywhere), it might be worth re-visiting what kickstarted it all - Emma Alberici’s tax analysis.
The proposition here is the government has tried to politically interfere with the ABC. Why would we be satisfied with a political investigation of it?,” she said. Here is Greg Jericho’s take, from the time.
As to why Michelle Rowland and Labor say this is so important:
“The ABC brand is well trusted in Australia. It is one of Australia’s national treasures, as it is often called, and it is no secret that the ABC is consistently rated as the most trusted news source in Australia. And that is why, more than ever, in an era of fake news and media consolidation, Australia requires a strong, independent and well resourced public broadcaster in the ABC. As this goes on, the ABC relies on people to have trust in it. If that trust is diminished, and if governments do not act to restore the trust, then that is a serious failing of our democracy.
...There is no denying that the public’s perceptions of this have been negative. Whether it has been negative about whether there is quality journalism, that is another matter. But the public’s confidence in the running of the ABC and in the matters surrounding these matters certainly in the public’s mines, it is not good at all.”
Michelle Rowland also says Labor believes a separate Senate inquiry into the allegations is absolutely crucial, despite Mitch Fifield having ordered his departmental secretary to investigate:
Labor is very concerned that not only do we need to have the actuals of this come out, but also the perception is very important. Let’s bear in mind that this is a minister who is a card-carrying member of the IPA, which advocates the privatisation of the ABC.
He has made substantial complaints to the ABC over various matters, he has presided over cuts to the ABC and, quite frankly, Labor does not have confidence that this inquiry done alone by his department will be satisfactory to bring those matters out. That is what the people are crying out for, they are crying out for transparency.
Does Labor have a problem with the decision to sack Michelle Guthrie?
Michelle Rowland leaves that one largely alone:
Labor understands that the board took an independent decision in order to effect that outcome. I made that clear on Monday when this became apparent, and Labor really understood, and we make that very clear, that we understand that those powers are there on the board is not required to give reasons.
But we want to know what the prime minister was told, what reasons he was given, what reason the minister for communications was given as to that sacking, in light of everything we now know in relation to the alleged political interference in the ABC.
There are unconfirmed reports that the board has asked Milne to step aside pending an inquiry.
BREAKING: The ABC board has asked Justin Milne to step aside while the inquiry is going on. The view was he could not continue as Chair while he was being investigated. In light of this, Milne is now understood to be considering his position as Chair and may step down entirely.
And as to why Labor (and the government) are treading carefully around this – well, it has to do with the ABC Act, and its legislated independence from government interference.
Michelle Rowland:
There are limited grounds for removal of the chairman in this instance. Ultimately, it is for the chairman to make up his own mind.
There are limited circumstances, and these are untested, for the government to form a view that certain aspects of the public governance and accountability regime may or may not have been satisfied.
But I believe, and Labor believes, that as each day goes on, and as we find out more of these allegations about alleged political interference, everyday this goes on, the public’s trust in the ABC is eroded. And that cannot be allowed to continue.
Michelle Rowland is not outright calling for Justin Milne to step down but she comes very close to the line.
Labor’s view is that his position is untenable and hence we do not have confidence in his position as chairman. That is a decision for him to make in relation to his position …
Labor does not believe his position is tenable. We do not have confidence in him, and we believe it is for the good of the ABC and certainly for the Australian public has stakeholders in the ABC, and considering it is such a vital part of our democracy that that would certainly be something that the chairman should be considering in formulating his decision.
Scott Morrison, who is on a bit of a strawberry tour across Queensland’s Sunshine Coast, says he spoke to Malcolm Turnbull this morning and he doesn’t believe the former prime minister “hated” any ABC’s journalist.
And he didn’t. I mean he didn’t. I actually spoke to Malcolm today. I speak to Malcolm pretty frequently. No, what the former prime minister did, just like I have as a minister, and I’m sure others … You know, the ABC is not perfect. You know, they make mistakes and it’s all right for people to call them out on that and raise those issues with the ABC.
We’ve all done that before. Members of the public do that. Members of parliament do that. Prime ministers do it. Ministers do it. But it’s not our job to tell the ABC how to run itself and how to then, you know, deal with any complaints.
They’re responsible for how they do that. The ABC board is responsible for the reputation of the ABC and its independence and we support them in being independent and I want to ensure that, as we deal with this issue, that the independence of the ABC is not in question. But equally, they’ve got to get it right too. So, you know, they’ve also got to handle those issues but that’s not what the current discussion is about. It’s about the independence, which, you know, has the full support of our government and always has.
He says he has contacted the ABC about its coverage but only when he says facts have been wrong.
I have because they’ve got it wrong on plenty of occasions and they’ve apologised to me for getting it wrong on a number of occasions. That’s probably the more shocking thing. Surprising, I should say. But that’s my point. There are processes. We use them. And responses are provided and that’s how it should work. But the idea that the government has somehow got some list and is telling the ABC who should work there and who shouldn’t – that’s complete rubbish. They’ve got an independent board. They’ve made decisions about their managing director. They made those decisions.
But what does he think of the reports that Justin Milne may have interfered in staffing matters?
That’s why I’m seeking to establish the facts around that. I know there are a lot of reports about that, but I’ll make my decisions and any further comments I make about the conduct of the chairman in relation to the actual evidence and I’m waiting to see that and I’ve got a process in place to go to that.
You’ve got to be fair. I mean, people have made allegations. They’re pretty serious allegations, I’ve got to say. And on the face of it that’s very concerning, very concerning.But I’m not going to prejudge it based on some newspaper or internet or, you know, television reports I’m going to base that on the clear advice and evidence presented by the department.
On whether the inquiry ordered by Mitch Fifield is enough, Tanya Plibersek gives a pretty good yeah, nah:
The proposition here is the government has tried to politically interfere with the ABC. Why would we be satisfied with a political investigation of it?
Speaking at a press conference where Labor is calling for the banking royal commission to be extended, Tanya Plibersek says it is “difficult to see”, if the allegations are proved, how Justin Milne can remain in his position.Speaking at a press conference where Labor is calling for the banking royal commission to be extended, Tanya Plibersek says it is “difficult to see”, if the allegations are proved, how Justin Milne can remain in his position.
Well, the revelations that we’ve heard about political interference in the ABC over the last 24 hours, frankly, are quite shocking. I think it says a lot more about the government than it says about the ABC to hear these sorts of revelations. People need to remember the ABC is not the propaganda arm of the Liberal party of Australia. It’s our national broadcaster. Australians love their ABC. They are, rightly, very protective of its integrity and independence. And if these revelations are correct, it is difficult to see how the chair of the board can remain the chair.Well, the revelations that we’ve heard about political interference in the ABC over the last 24 hours, frankly, are quite shocking. I think it says a lot more about the government than it says about the ABC to hear these sorts of revelations. People need to remember the ABC is not the propaganda arm of the Liberal party of Australia. It’s our national broadcaster. Australians love their ABC. They are, rightly, very protective of its integrity and independence. And if these revelations are correct, it is difficult to see how the chair of the board can remain the chair.
Meanwhile, Sarah Hanson-Young, the Greens communications spokeswoman, said the whole ABC board should consider it’s position:Meanwhile, Sarah Hanson-Young, the Greens communications spokeswoman, said the whole ABC board should consider it’s position:
It’s not a matter of if, but when, chair Justin Milne vacates his position at the head of the ABC board. To give the ABC a fresh start and set it back on track, the next chair must be appointed with bipartisan support.It’s not a matter of if, but when, chair Justin Milne vacates his position at the head of the ABC board. To give the ABC a fresh start and set it back on track, the next chair must be appointed with bipartisan support.
The ABC’s independence, and the ability for its journalists to do their jobs without fear or favour, must be paramount. This is not possible under a chair hand-picked by whoever the prime minister is.The ABC’s independence, and the ability for its journalists to do their jobs without fear or favour, must be paramount. This is not possible under a chair hand-picked by whoever the prime minister is.
Mr Milne’s position is untenable, and his board has been implicated. To save the ABC, restore integrity and the community’s faith in the organisation, the board needs a clean-up.Mr Milne’s position is untenable, and his board has been implicated. To save the ABC, restore integrity and the community’s faith in the organisation, the board needs a clean-up.
Anthony Albanese had a chat to Chris Kenny on Sydney radio 2GB this morning about the ABC and the Justin Milne email:Anthony Albanese had a chat to Chris Kenny on Sydney radio 2GB this morning about the ABC and the Justin Milne email:
But this email, if it is proven to be true, and one would suggest that if it wasn’t Mr Milne would have stated that by now - he has been given the opportunity and has failed to do so, then it is a pretty clear breach of saying essentially that in order to appease the government a journalist, Emma Alberici, must be dismissed.But this email, if it is proven to be true, and one would suggest that if it wasn’t Mr Milne would have stated that by now - he has been given the opportunity and has failed to do so, then it is a pretty clear breach of saying essentially that in order to appease the government a journalist, Emma Alberici, must be dismissed.
You may remember there is a chance of duelling inquiries into the ABC revelations – Mitch Fifield has ordered his departmental secretary to investigate whether there has been any interference, while Labor and the Greens look like having the numbers to launch a parliamentary inquiry of their own.You may remember there is a chance of duelling inquiries into the ABC revelations – Mitch Fifield has ordered his departmental secretary to investigate whether there has been any interference, while Labor and the Greens look like having the numbers to launch a parliamentary inquiry of their own.
Fifield yesterday said he wants the results of his departmental investigation “as soon as possible”.Fifield yesterday said he wants the results of his departmental investigation “as soon as possible”.
Today he said he hopes that is “days, not weeks”.Today he said he hopes that is “days, not weeks”.
Hello all, and thank you to Katharine Murphy for getting today’s ship up and running.Hello all, and thank you to Katharine Murphy for getting today’s ship up and running.
While we wait to see what Scott Morrison and Michelle Rowland have to say, it’s worth checking in with ABC staff.While we wait to see what Scott Morrison and Michelle Rowland have to say, it’s worth checking in with ABC staff.
The ABC Radio Melbourne presenter Rafael Epstein has an update on what the ABC board is doing:The ABC Radio Melbourne presenter Rafael Epstein has an update on what the ABC board is doing:
ALSO Shared with him the Board’s view of the staff and Canberra. IMPORTANT : Board will not be issuing demands or telling him what to do. MY READ : Milne’s future is still in his hands but some on board not happyALSO Shared with him the Board’s view of the staff and Canberra. IMPORTANT : Board will not be issuing demands or telling him what to do. MY READ : Milne’s future is still in his hands but some on board not happy
Thank you for indulging my brisk re-entry into live coverage. It’s been tremendous. Handing over now to the wonderful Amy Remeikis. The current prime minister, Scott Morrison, is due to speak to the media this morning, as is the shadow communications minister, Michelle Rowland.Thank you for indulging my brisk re-entry into live coverage. It’s been tremendous. Handing over now to the wonderful Amy Remeikis. The current prime minister, Scott Morrison, is due to speak to the media this morning, as is the shadow communications minister, Michelle Rowland.
Stay tuned.Stay tuned.
Before we get to what Turnbull said to reporters in New York, just a bit a background. Milne, the ABC chairman, was appointed to the position last year, and he was formerly in business with Turnbull.
Turnbull said the following. (Of course I said stuff. But not too much. And in any case, I’m not the decision maker.)
Malcolm Turnbull:
As is a matter of public record, we did complain about the very poor standards of journalism, and lack of accuracy of journalism shown on a number of occasions by ABC journalists.
The chairman of the ABC and the managing director of the ABC and the director of news at the ABC are talking to politicians, and other members of the public, presumably, all the time.
Just as the executives and news directors and editors of the private sector media are — it’s very important to be engaged. But the decisions about staff or any other matters that are within the jurisdiction of the board, are taken by the board independent of government.
I’m still laughing about Malcolm Turnbull being mellow, just quietly. I’ll catch you up with the former prime minister’s comments in the next post.
In addition to the events Murph has just recapped, the ABC staff are also very active. While staff had separate state union meetings across the country on Wednesday, today they will have a national phone hookup to decide what action to take next.
The ABC staff have called for Milne to step aside until an inquiry has been held into the allegations he called for journalists to be sacked.
Now that Mitch Fifield has concluded his press conference, let’s catch up on where things are with the ABC story. Sorry, sometimes you just have to dive in then catch up later.
If you haven’t followed the events over the past couple of days, this fracas was sparked by the sacking of the ABC’s managing director, Michelle Guthrie, by the ABC board on Monday.
The story quickly escalated from Guthrie being shown the door (for not very clearly articulated reasons) to the conduct of the board’s chair, Justin Milne.
Guardian Australia’s media correspondent, Amanda Meade, reports this morning that Milne regularly spoke to executives, including the corporation’s news director, Gaven Morris, about contentious stories or content he didn’t approve of.
Milne has found himself under growing pressure after reports on Wednesday morning that he told Guthrie to “get rid of” the chief economics correspondent, Emma Alberici, because the Coalition government “hate her”.
There is also a separate News Corp report this morning that Milne asked Guthrie to “shoot” the ABC’s Canberra-based political editor, Andrew Probyn, because Malcolm Turnbull hated him.
Now, why does this matter? Because the ABC is supposed to be independent of government, and not subject to random acts of political interference.
The ABC board is meeting today, minus the chairman.
If you want someone to remain in their position, you say they should remain in their position.
What did Fifield say? *Crickets*
The journalists get to the nub of the issue.
The non-answer from the communications minister tells you everything you need to know about the trajectory of today.
Q: Do you think Justin Milne should stay in his position?
Mitch Fifield:
Well, it’s a matter for every high office holder to continually assess whether they retain the capacity to effectively discharge the duties of their office.
Fifield is not in a position to suggest the government has been hands off with the ABC, because there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. Complaints. Negative public commentary. Anyone watching politics closely knows the Turnbull government had a minor industry going in bagging the ABC and the performance of particular journalists.
So Fifield steps through this carefully.
Q: Have you actually demanded the journalist specifically, or any journalist, for that matter, to be sacked or have any involvement in decisions to be reversed at the ABC?
Mitch Fifield:
I have never, in any way, shape or form, sought to involve myself in staffing matters at the ABC. I have never called for or sought the end of the employment of anyone at the ABC, or any media organisation, for that matter.
Q: Have you ever raised concerns relating to one particular journalist, though, or have you any raised the names of any particular journalist with any ABC senior members?
Mitch Fifield:
I have only ever raised with the ABC matters in relation to facts in reporting. I think I’ve done so on half a dozen occasions since I’ve been the minister and those occasions are all very well known.
Q: But you’ve named particular journalists in your inquiries?
Mitch Fifield:
In correspondence to the ABC, where I have had issues of fact in reporting, clearly, I’ve made reference to the particular reporter.
Q: If that’s not exerting influence, what is?
Mitch Fifield:
Any member of parliament and any member of the community is perfectly within their rights to raise with any media organisation when they think they’ve made an error of fact. Part of the way that a free, open and democratic press operates is that the press should be free to go about their business but, equally, citizens, including members of parliament, should have the freedom to raise issues when it comes to questions of fact in media reporting.
Q: You’re the communications minister. Surely your work carries a lot more weight than the average bystander on the street who’s responding to an article and raising questions about an inaccuracy – surely you would have known that perhaps your concerns about the article would have had a stronger impact on the organisation than anybody else?
Mitch Fifield:
I would hope that the media organisations in Australia take equally seriously questions of fact that are raised, regardless of who raises them.
The questions from journalists are all directed at trying to ascertain the extent to which the then Turnbull government tried to exert editorial influence at the national broadcaster.
Malcolm Turnbull has made some comments overnight which I’ll return to shortly in catching us all up. Fifield can be quite a droll fellow periodically.
Q: Are you aware that Malcolm Turnbull harboured any hatred towards any ABC reporters?
Mitch Fifield:
The former prime minister is a very mellow individual.
He only, to my knowledge, has raised issues of fact in relation to reports by journalists.
I’ll recap at the end of this press conference to ensure we are all up to speed. Let’s push forward for now.
The communications minister, Mitch Fifield, made these opening remarks a minute ago.
This has been a difficult week for the ABC but it’s important that its work continues. The ABC is one of the important underpinnings of media diversity in Australia.
The ABC makes a significant contribution to civic journalism in Australia and to the important accountability role of the Australian media. The independence of the ABC is something that this government is deeply committed to.
The ABC has legislated independence in relation to operational programming, editorial and staffing matters and, as the minister for communications, I have always respected the independence of the ABC.
Like most members of parliament, I have, on occasion, raised with the ABC issues of facts in reporting, as indeed I’ve done with commercial media organisations.
But, at no stage, and in no way, shape or form, have I ever sought to involve myself in staffing matters in the ABC, nor, for that matter, am I aware of any member of the government who has sought to do so and that includes the former prime minister who has spoken to these matters overnight.
There have, over the last two days, been issues raised in relation to the independence of the ABC. These are matters that we take seriously as a government, which is why, following discussions with the prime minister yesterday, I asked the secretary of my department, the Department of Communications and the Arts, to undertake an inquiry to establish the facts in these matters.
I’ve done so because it’s important for the community to have confidence in the ABC and its independence.
Hello everyone and welcome to another day of live coverage about the unfolding crisis at the ABC. As we launch the live blog this morning, it has become clear that the ABC board is meeting today minus its chairman, Justin Milne.
ABC update: ABC Board meeting now without chairman Justin Milne and @SenatorFifield presser at 9.30am in Melbourne.
The communications minister, Mitch Fifield, is speaking to the media in Melbourne now. I’ll bring you that next.