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Malcolm Turnbull on Q&A: leadership plotters 'effectively blew up the government' – politics live | |
(34 minutes later) | |
Next question – and my notes just say ‘Ash’ so I apologise to the questioner for shortening his name: | |
Upon your resignation, you mentioned how some strong voices from 2GB and Sky News After Dark had directly influenced parliamentarians andcatalysed the insurgency. Has this shaken your faith in traditional forms of media? | |
Turnbull: | |
No, it hasn’t shaken my faith in it but, having said that, I’ve been involved in the media business now for well over 40 years, so my expectations are very realistic. | |
The media has always played a role in politics. Media players - be they editors or proprietors or commentators - have always sought to exert power, and there is no doubt there was a very consistent campaign waged against me by a number of outlets - you mentioned 2GB, that is one, obviously, Sky News After Dark - doesn’t have a very big audience, but... | |
(more laughter) | |
Turnbull: Well, it doesn’t. It doesn’t. | |
Tony Jones: You include The Australian as part of the News Limited empire? | |
Turnbull: Some parts of the News Limited empire - not all of it. Many of the tabloid newspapers were supportive of the government when they thought we were doing a good job. They weren’t sort of consistently seeking to undermine it. But I’ll give you an example. | |
One of my colleagues from Queensland - a man who has been a good friend of mine in the past, and I’ve helped in the past - he explained why he was supporting Peter Dutton to me. And he said, | |
“The problem is with my branch members, my LNP branch members.” He said, “Every night, the commentators on Sky News and during the day, Alan Jones and Ray Hadley, are having a branch meeting with them.” | |
Essentially, he felt he was being pressured by his branch members, and he felt he couldn’t resist that pressure. | |
Now, the problem is - and this is a fundamental problem that the Liberal Party faces - in order to be successful as a political movement, you have to win votes from the centre. | |
The Liberal Party, to succeed, has to be a broad church. | |
And that means that it has to, you know, represent people with liberal views and people with more conservative views. That was Menzies’ broad church - how it’s talked about and so forth. That is being frayed. And what we’re seeing is voters saying to the Liberal Party, “You are not liberal enough.” | |
Now, we should reflect on this, and the part - my party, the party I joined in 1973 - has to reflect on this. There are three really safe - formerly really safe - Liberal seats: Mayo in South Australia, Indi in Victoria, Wentworth now in New South Wales - my old seat. | |
All in very different areas but, forever, have been safe, conservative seats, safe Liberal seats. | |
They are now occupied by three Independents who are all women, who are all small-L liberals, and all of whom, in one way or another, have been involved in the Liberal Party in the past, either as being members of the Liberal Party or as having worked for Liberal Party members - and sometimes both. | |
So what that’s telling you is that the voters are - through voting for these Independents - saying, “We are concerned that the Liberal Party is not speaking for small-L liberal values, for genuinely liberal values, and therefore we take the matter in our own hands and we put in a liberal Independent.” | |
And that’s what you have in those three seats. | |
But he has no evidence Scott Morrison’s backers were pressuring people to join the Peter Dutton coup. | |
His very quick answer on that – that he has no information and no one has told him - may leave some people in doubt though. | |
Quickly, chiming in from the sidelines. | |
Malcolm Turnbull is making his intentions clear this evening. | |
No one’s sensibilities will be spared. | |
Removing him remains an act of madness. | |
People need to account for their madness. | |
Turnbull never imagined cabinet ministers with grave responsibilities would move against him, the prime minister. | |
(He was warned by friends, actually, but never mind that inconvenience.) | |
Turnbull wishes Scott Morrison all the best, because he’s “dealt himself a very tough hand of cards, and now he has to play them”. | |
It’s take no prisoners. | |
But Toby ( I think) isn’t quite satisfied with that answer: | |
I find that really doubtful. Do you think people become prime minister by accident, speaking from experience? | |
Turnbull: | |
Well, it certainly wasn’t an accident on my part, but … | |
(Laughter) | |
Then he gets down to it. | |
Look, what happened was that the insurgents – Dutton, Abbott, supported by Cormann, Fifield and Cash and Hunt and Ciobo and Michael Keenan and Angus Taylor – there’s along list of them – they effectively blew up the government. | |
And that created a situation of enormous instability. That created the – what happens in a party room, to be clear about this – is that people become frightened, and they become intimidated and bullied. | |
And they’re frightened that the destabilisation is going to continue. And so there are some people who would have voted for the spill not because they wanted me to stop being prime minister, but they wanted the destabilisation to stop. | |
Now, my view is – you do not give in to bullies. You don’t give in to that intimidation. And I never have. But it is – and you’ve heard all the accounts, there’s so many accounts from people at the time - but that was the environment. | |
But, really, in terms of answering why they did it, why they blew up the government of Australia, why they overthrew the prime minister – who was, as we were saying earlier – our government was in a competitive position, doing well – in fact, we were doing the best we had done since the 2016 election, as it happened. Maybe they were worried we’d win the election. Maybe they were not worried we’d lose it – maybe they were worried we’d win it. | |
Next question! | |
Thank you for your service anyway, prime minister. Former prime minister, I do apologise. I want to know – what role did the prime minister play in your ousting? Is ScoMo a Steven Bradbury, or Niccolo Machiavelli? | |
(Laughter) | |
Turnbull: | |
Um... ..well, look, he... I take Scott at his word. | |
The insurgency was, ah, was led by Peter Dutton, was obviously strongly supported by Tony Abbott and others. Ah, Scott did not support it. Ah, and he’s said that publicly. So … by Steven Bradbury, I assume you mean he took advantage of a situation that was created by others. | |
Well, I suppose, you know, that is how he’s presented the circumstances himself, and I’m not in a position to contradict that or question that.” | |
Jones: “You don’t look back at that moment where he put his arm around you...and professed openly his loyalty, only to become prime minister two days later?” | |
Turnbull’s expression makes everyone laugh. | |
Turnbull: “Well, he’s very tactile and friendly.” | |
More laughter. | |
And he’s only human! | |
MORE laughter. | |
Please send your thoughts and prayers to my colleague Gareth Hutchens who is being forced to listen to my every vocal explosion during this episode. | |
But has this killed off the government’s chances of staying in government? | |
Well, look, I mean, I wish Scott all the best … in the election. I really do. | |
(SCATTERED LAUGHTER says TVeeder) | |
No, look, he has – OK, let me put something on the table right at the outset. There is a media narrative which goes like this: “Prime minister is deposed by his colleagues. The deposed prime minister then goes off and plots to bring down his successor and overthrow him” | |
The media will write that story whether the facts fit it or not. Now, what I have done is quite the opposite. I have left the parliament. So I can’t be a threat to Scott Morrison or anyone else. | |
I’m not even in the parliament. I’m not in the party room anymore. I have had – as you observed at the outset – little or nothing to say since I gave my farewell remarks in the prime minister’s courtyard. | |
In fact, of course, which were well summed up, as so many people have written to me to say – I’ve had hundreds and hundreds of letters, many of which have been very moving, but one common theme was that our grandson, Jack, spoke for the whole nation at the end of my speech. | |
After that, I’ve had very little to say. And I’ve done that deliberately because I wanted to give Scott all the clear air to do his own thing. He has dealt himself a very tough hand of cards, and now he has to play them. But he’s the prime minister, and he has to get on with it.” | |
Milly is next and wants to know; with the benefit of hindsight, could you have done anything differently to protect yourself and your position against agitators such as Peter Dutton or Tony Abbott? | |
Turnbull (yeah, probs, but also, maybe not?) | |
Ah … Well, I’m sure there would be, but I’m not sure what that would be. I mean, you know, I ran a very traditional cabinet government. It was very consultative. You know, I’d learnt from my first time as leader in opposition, I’d learnt from the example of predecessors as prime minister, so I ran a very consultative cabinet government, and I don’t think anyone argues with that. | |
So we followed process and made sure that we had an inclusive process. So, for example, with the national energy guarantee – it had gone through the cabinet at least three times, it had gone through the party room several times … I was very careful to make sure that I brought the party together. One of the most important things as leader is to keep the party together. But obviously, if people …” | |
Jones: “You have cabinet ministers who voted against you in the first spill.” | |
Turnbull: “I know …” | |
Jones: “How much of a shock was that?” | |
Turnbull: | |
No, I did not anticipate that people would act – particularly cabinet ministers – would act so self-destructively. | |
You know, Paul Keating had a great saying – I think it was Jack Lang’s originally – that in the great race of life, always back self-interest, because you always know it’s trying. To put it another way – people will normally act in their own self-interest. | |
They might get it wrong, of course – they might be mistaken as to what’s in their self-interest – but it was so obvious that the coup, the insurgency that occurred in the last part of August – it was so obvious that it was going to be destructive, it was so obvious that there was not going to be any upside to it – and of course that’s what’s turned out – it never – it really never occurred to me that senior members of the government - particularly people with such solemn responsibilities – you know, Peter Dutton’s the home affairs minister, responsible for Australia’s national security, for heaven’s sake - domestic security. | |
Mathias Cormann – the leader of the government in the Senate, Greg Hunt, the health minister, Steve Ciobo, our trade minister ... | |
Jones: “Who you promoted into cabinet?” | |
Turnbull: | |
Sure. And there’s plenty of others. But it never occurred to me that those people would act in a way that was going to be so damaging both to the government, to the party and, frankly, to the nation. I mean, stability is very important. And disturbing that stability should only be done with a very clear justification and a very clear purpose. And even then, it carries risks.” | |
So, Tony Jones wonders, do you know of anyone who voted against you, who now regrets it? | |
“Ahh... Well, I couldn’t possibly comment...but look,” a relaxed and reflective Malcolm Turnbull says. | |
The audience laughs, because he wants them to, but Jones is ALL BUSINESS: | |
So, that’s “yes” but you can’t say so...? | |
Turnbull: | |
Look, the reality is, people have got to be adults and be accountable, OK? And so, when you elect someone to be a member of parliament, you’re impose in them a very solemn and very sacred responsibility. And they have to stand up and be prepared to say why they do things, why they vote for things. And so, the people who chose to act in what I thought was a very -it was madness - a very self-destructive way, to blow up the government, to bring my prime ministership to an end they need to really explain why they did it. And none of them have.” | |
Basically - you did this people. SO SIT IN IT. | |
Tony Jones jumps in with a follow up: | |
At your last press conference in Canberra, you referred to the polls, you said you were just behind in the published polls. | |
Turnbull: Yep. | |
Jones: But in your own polls, you were a little bit ahead. At a speech in New York, you said the internal Liberal Party polling showed you were four points ahead in 40 marginal seats. | |
Turnbull: Yep. | |
Jones: Did the party room have that information? | |
Turnbull: “Well, everyone knew about it. It was - just to explain to everyone - the published polls - whether it’s Newspoll or the Ipsos poll or, you know, the Essential poll that you see in The Guardian - they are all polls of the whole nation. What political parties do is they poll the marginal seats, because that’s where the elections are decided. | |
So, we typically poll 40 marginal seats - the government’s 20 most marginal seats and theOpposition’s 20 most marginal seats. So the seats you need to hold and the seats you want to win, basically. So, in our own polling, we were - in the August poll, August track, which is what we call it - we were 52-48 ahead. | |
And in the published polls, as everyone knows, we were 51-49 behind. Which is effectively level pegging. So there’s no question the government was doing well. We were thoroughly competitive. And we were in a position where we had every chance, every prospect, of being able to win the election.” | |
Turnbull: | |
Well, thanks, Steven. And that’s the question I can’t answer, of course. The only people that can answer that are the people that engineered the coup – people like Peter Dutton and Tony Abbott and Greg Hunt and Mathias Cormann – the people who voted for the spill. So, there are 45 of them. | |
Most of them are well-known – there are no bones about who they are. They have to answer that question. I can’t answer it. From my own point of view, I described it at the time as “madness”. All of the points you made are right. | |
The economy was strong. It’s one of the things I’m most proud of – when I became prime minister, I said I would deliver economic leadership. In the 2016 election, I campaigned own delivering jobs and growth. And we delivered both - record jobs growth. | |
The strongest jobs growth, in fact, in our nation’s history. Strong economic growth – the envy of the developed world. By any measure, we’ve achieved enormous economic progress. | |
You know, great achievements in the trade arena internationally – I’m sure we’ll come to that. | |
So you’re right – the government had achieved an enormous amount – much more than I thought would be possible, given that we didn’t have anything like a majority in the Senate – we were in a minority there – and we only had a one-seat majority in the House. | |
So I was very proud to be able to do as much as I was as prime minister, and I want to thank, again, the Australian people for giving me the opportunity of leading this remarkable nation for nearly three years, and I want to thank all of my colleagues for their support that enabled me to achieve so much. | |
But as to why a number of them chose to blow the government up at the time they did – you’ve really got to ask them.” | |
Steven opens up the questioning – he tells Turnbull he didn’t vote for him, but thanks him for his public service. | |
Labor would be very happy with this question, given they have been asking it every question time since 25 August: | |
Australian politics can be a brutal futile business. It seems the day you become prime minister is the day you come close to becoming an ex-prime minister. So, given that the economy is ticking along nicely, unemployment rates are at decade-long lows, business confidence is high, and a chance of the mythical budget surplus next year, can you answer the question your apparently accidental successor is unwilling or unable to answer: “why aren’t you still prime minister?” | |
He’s in a suit. So cross that off your bingo card. | |
No tie though. Because – casual. | |
Now it is on ABC News channels and also News Radio I believe, and for my peeps in Queensland – try ABC24 | |
Leigh Sales has said her good evenings and we are minutes away. | |
Get that popcorn cooking. | |
Malcolm Turnbull has also updated his personal website – when you’re looking for statements from the 29th prime minister in the future, you’ll find them here. | Malcolm Turnbull has also updated his personal website – when you’re looking for statements from the 29th prime minister in the future, you’ll find them here. |
And for those wondering if THE leather jacket will make an appearance: | And for those wondering if THE leather jacket will make an appearance: |
WHAT WILL HE WEAR #qanda pic.twitter.com/bzCVL6xaaO | WHAT WILL HE WEAR #qanda pic.twitter.com/bzCVL6xaaO |
You’ll be disappointed. He auctioned it off for charity in November 2011. | You’ll be disappointed. He auctioned it off for charity in November 2011. |
But he did buy another one. | But he did buy another one. |
The Daily Telegraph’s Sharri Markson reported about a week ago that Malcolm Turnbull had signed up for the international speakers’ circuit. | The Daily Telegraph’s Sharri Markson reported about a week ago that Malcolm Turnbull had signed up for the international speakers’ circuit. |
From her report: The Greater Talent Network, which used to represent US President Donald Trump, announced it had exclusively signed the former prime minister, describing him as an extremely intelligent, humorous and charismatic speaker.” | From her report: The Greater Talent Network, which used to represent US President Donald Trump, announced it had exclusively signed the former prime minister, describing him as an extremely intelligent, humorous and charismatic speaker.” |
So we can expect to hear a lot more from Turnbull beyond tonight. | So we can expect to hear a lot more from Turnbull beyond tonight. |
In fact, as Katharine Murphy reported last week, we don’t even have to wait that long – we can hear from him again next week: | In fact, as Katharine Murphy reported last week, we don’t even have to wait that long – we can hear from him again next week: |
There have been grumblings about Turnbull within the government, with some colleagues complaining he was not more active on behalf of the Liberal party’s candidate in the Wentworth byelection. | There have been grumblings about Turnbull within the government, with some colleagues complaining he was not more active on behalf of the Liberal party’s candidate in the Wentworth byelection. |
There has also been tension between the former prime minister and Morrison over the new prime minister’s inclination to move Australia’s embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. | There has also been tension between the former prime minister and Morrison over the new prime minister’s inclination to move Australia’s embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. |
Turnbull late on Monday implicitly warned his successor against following through with the shift Morrison telegraphed in the run-up to the byelection, after a meeting with the Indonesian president on Monday. | Turnbull late on Monday implicitly warned his successor against following through with the shift Morrison telegraphed in the run-up to the byelection, after a meeting with the Indonesian president on Monday. |
Turnbull warned there would be consequences for Australia’s relationship with Jakarta. Morrison dismissed that advice, saying Australia would forge its own foreign policy. | Turnbull warned there would be consequences for Australia’s relationship with Jakarta. Morrison dismissed that advice, saying Australia would forge its own foreign policy. |
The ABC is billing the special episode, hosted by Tony Jones on 8 November, as an opportunity for Turnbull “to answer questions from the people of Australia”. | The ABC is billing the special episode, hosted by Tony Jones on 8 November, as an opportunity for Turnbull “to answer questions from the people of Australia”. |
Turnbull is also set to deliver a keynote speech at the Australian and New South Wales bar associations’ national conference in Sydney on 16 November.” | Turnbull is also set to deliver a keynote speech at the Australian and New South Wales bar associations’ national conference in Sydney on 16 November.” |
It has been almost three months since Malcolm Turnbull lost the Liberal party leadership – and with it, the prime ministership. Seventy-seven days, if you like to be more exact about these sorts of things. | It has been almost three months since Malcolm Turnbull lost the Liberal party leadership – and with it, the prime ministership. Seventy-seven days, if you like to be more exact about these sorts of things. |
In that time, we have had a few tweets – most notably, last week when Turnbull stepped in to correct the record over what exactly he was asked to do as Australia’s envoy in Indonesia, after Scott Morrison said he overstepped his bounds during the visit, on Sydney radio. | In that time, we have had a few tweets – most notably, last week when Turnbull stepped in to correct the record over what exactly he was asked to do as Australia’s envoy in Indonesia, after Scott Morrison said he overstepped his bounds during the visit, on Sydney radio. |
But other than that? | But other than that? |
Nada. | Nada. |
Until – tonight. | Until – tonight. |
Here’s how the ABC announced it on 31 October: | Here’s how the ABC announced it on 31 October: |
Malcolm Turnbull has been inundated with media requests since he was removed as Australia’s 29th prime ,inister by his parliamentary colleagues. | Malcolm Turnbull has been inundated with media requests since he was removed as Australia’s 29th prime ,inister by his parliamentary colleagues. |
Now he has decided his first major media appearance will be to answer questions from the people of Australia on Q&A. | Now he has decided his first major media appearance will be to answer questions from the people of Australia on Q&A. |
Politics. Parties. Leadership. Disruption. Growth. Climate. Gender. Prices. Innovation. Conservatism. Entitlement. Compassion.” | Politics. Parties. Leadership. Disruption. Growth. Climate. Gender. Prices. Innovation. Conservatism. Entitlement. Compassion.” |
The audience will be asking the questions, but host Tony Jones is going to do what Tony Jones does, and niggle. | The audience will be asking the questions, but host Tony Jones is going to do what Tony Jones does, and niggle. |
So what version of Turnbull will the viewing public receive today? What’s his mood? And should Morrison and the Liberal party be as worried about this appearance as they have spent this past week being? | So what version of Turnbull will the viewing public receive today? What’s his mood? And should Morrison and the Liberal party be as worried about this appearance as they have spent this past week being? |
Asked today about what he thought while in Townsville, Morrison trotted out this: | Asked today about what he thought while in Townsville, Morrison trotted out this: |
I wish him the best and if I asked him a question I would say how are you going?” | I wish him the best and if I asked him a question I would say how are you going?” |
We hope you enjoy this special politics live and hope you hit us up in the comments with your thoughts, predictions and general feelings – as always, you know I will be watching. Katharine Murphy is also on deck, so make sure you keep an eye out for her thoughts, as the hour plays out. | We hope you enjoy this special politics live and hope you hit us up in the comments with your thoughts, predictions and general feelings – as always, you know I will be watching. Katharine Murphy is also on deck, so make sure you keep an eye out for her thoughts, as the hour plays out. |
You know I’ve got coffee. And you know I wish it was something stronger. | You know I’ve got coffee. And you know I wish it was something stronger. |
Ready? | Ready? |
It all begins at 8pm daylight saving time, but let’s get into it. | It all begins at 8pm daylight saving time, but let’s get into it. |