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Pelosi vs. Trump: ‘Don’t Characterize the Strength That I Bring,’ She Says Pelosi vs. Trump: ‘Don’t Characterize the Strength That I Bring,’ She Says
(about 1 hour later)
WASHINGTON — It was Round One: Nancy Pelosi vs. President Trump. WASHINGTON — It was Round 1: Nancy Pelosi vs. President Trump.
The likely new speaker arrived at the White House on Tuesday afternoon, ready to take on the president. The subject was a potential government shutdown, and funding for Mr. Trump’s beloved wall. What followed was a remarkable exchange between a veteran congressional leader and a president who is rarely challenged to his face in public, especially by a woman. The likely new House speaker arrived at the White House on Tuesday afternoon, ready to take on the president. The subject was a potential government shutdown, and funding for Mr. Trump’s beloved wall. What followed was a remarkable televised exchange between a veteran congressional leader and a president who is far less experienced but rarely challenged to his face in public, especially by a woman.
“Mr. President, please don’t characterize the strength that I bring to this meeting as a leader of the House Democrats who just won a big victory,” Ms. Pelosi said, about halfway through the meeting, after Mr. Trump accused her of “being in a situation where it’s not easy for her to talk right now.” Right off the bat, Ms. Pelosi referred to a “Trump shutdown,” knowing full well it would set off the president. (It did.) Then she called Mr. Trump’s bluff — “O.K., then do it, then do it,” she taunted — when he suggested House Republicans could easily pass a spending bill that included wall funding. When he interrupted her, she interrupted him, her voice calm and steady, her “Mr. Presidents” constant, even as he wagged his finger and called her “Nancy.”
As viewers watched the televised back-and-forth that continued for a heated 15 minutes, Mr. Trump frequently interrupted Ms. Pelosi to say that he did not want a vote in the House on a bill to avoid a shutdown since he did not have the votes in the Senate. And when Mr. Trump tried to undercut her by suggesting she was “in a situation where it’s not easy for her to talk right now,” Ms. Pelosi fired back. “Mr. President,” she said, “please don’t characterize the strength that I bring to this meeting as the leader of the House Democrats, who just won a big victory.”
“I don’t want to waste time,” Mr. Trump said. The extraordinary back-and-forth, which lasted for a heated 15 minutes inside the Oval Office, was the first test of the new power dynamic between her and Mr. Trump as Democrats prepare to take control of the House. It came at a propitious moment for Ms. Pelosi, just as she is trying to round up the votes she needs to become speaker.
Ms. Pelosi listened for a few moments. “That is not the point, Mr. President,” she finally said, and then added, “I don’t think we should have a debate in front of the press on this.” And it appeared calculated to send a message to Democrats and Republicans alike that Ms. Pelosi is fully capable of taking on Mr. Trump and brushing off his lecturing, or in this gender-charged case, mansplaining.
The exchange between Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Trump — the first that tested their new power dynamic as Democrats prepare to take control of the House — seemed aimed at making clear to Ms. Pelosi’s Democratic caucus that she can take on Mr. Trump and brush off mansplaining. “I think she gave as good as she got,” said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and a close ally of Mr. Trump.
And it was Ms. Pelosi who may have benefited from the negotiating-in-public style the president prefers. She put him off balance from the start by referring to the possibility of a “Trump shutdown,” causing the president to visibly recoil. Representative Eric Swalwell, Democrat of California, raised the coming vote for speaker: “I think she sealed the deal.”
Without raising her voice, she stood her ground as Mr. Trump repeatedly interrupted her with finger wags and calling her “Nancy.” But Ms. Pelosi must also be careful; many of the newly elected Democrats whose support she needs come from districts won by Mr. Trump, and she is walking a fine line in antagonizing him — especially if a government shutdown is the end result. While she is being cheered on the Democratic left, centrists may react more warily, knowing that their voters sent them to Washington to compromise more than fight.
Ms. Pelosi, who was joined in the Oval Office by Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer, Mr. Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, made it clear she thought it was unproductive to negotiate in public. “She has to prove that she’s tough enough for her caucus,” said John Feehery, a Republican strategist who advised J. Dennis Hastert when he was speaker. “But she also has to prove that she can deliver for her members.”
“But it’s not bad, Nancy, it’s called transparency,” Mr. Trump said. For those who study women in politics, it was a notable moment — a behind-the-scenes peek at a powerful woman negotiating with the leader of the free world. Even Hillary Clinton, the 2016 Democratic nominee for president, did not spar with Mr. Trump in quite the same unscripted way. Their televised debates were controlled by moderators.
Ms. Pelosi shot back, “It is not transparency when we are not stipulating a set of facts and when we wanted to have a debate with you about saying we confront some of those facts without saying to the public this isn’t true.” “We rarely get to see a woman in that level of leadership confronted in that way,” said Debbie Walsh, the director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. “I think this was an example that really speaks to women’s capacity to lead, and to do it civilly, to do it with grace and to be strong and clear.”
It has been a year since “Chuck and Nancy,” as Mr. Trump has branded them, have been invited to the White House. But while the president has praised Ms. Pelosi’s skills from afar, he appeared rattled when confronting her in person. Mr. Pence did not join in the conversation at all. Ms. Pelosi was joined at the negotiating session by Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, who scored points of his own when he goaded Mr. Trump into declaring that he would be “proud to shut down the government for border security” — an admission that rattled Republicans and may have strengthened Democrats’ negotiating hand. Vice President Mike Pence was also there, sitting silently as the drama unfolded before him.
At one point the president tried to paper over what was apparent to anyone watching. “We’re doing this in a very friendly manner,” he insisted to reporters. Throughout, both Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Schumer made clear that they believed it was unproductive to negotiate in public and repeatedly prodded the president to move the discussion behind closed doors. (“We didn’t want to contradict the president when he was putting forth figures that had no reality to them, no basis in fact,” she later told reporters.)
For her part, Ms. Pelosi appeared to be aiming for civility if not camaraderie. While Mr. Trump waved his hands theatrically, she sat with her hands folded in her lap. When she was interrupted, Ms. Pelosi politely tried to explain to Mr. Trump, who prides himself on his negotiating skills, how Congress works. But Mr. Trump barreled ahead. “It’s not bad, Nancy, it’s called transparency,” he told her.
Ms. Pelosi shot back, “It is not transparency when we are not stipulating to a set of facts and when we want to have a debate with you about saying we confront some of those facts without saying to the public this isn’t true.”
As the reviews rolled in, images of Ms. Pelosi emerging from the White House donning sunglasses while wearing a swingy red coat began circulating on Twitter. Later, a triumphant Ms. Pelosi returned to the Capitol, where she met behind closed doors with her Democratic colleagues, whom she regaled with stories.
According to one Democratic aide in the room, she questioned Mr. Trump’s manhood, calling the wall debate “a manhood thing for him.” She also primly likened the meeting to “a tinkle contest with a skunk,” adding, “I was trying to be the mom.”
For Democratic women, who powered the midterm elections last month that gave the party the House majority, the Oval Office scene was especially satisfying.
Representative Nanette Diaz Barragan, Democrat of California, said she found Ms. Pelosi’s “mom” comment hilarious, adding, “There was a consensus among everybody I spoke to that they felt comfortable and re-energized that they have Pelosi at the table.”
It had been more than a year since “Chuck and Nancy,” as Mr. Trump has branded them, had been invited to the White House. That was in September 2017, when Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Schumer had a cordial dinner of Chinese food (Mr. Schumer’s favorite) with the president. They left believing they had struck a deal with Mr. Trump on immigration, but it fell apart within days.
This time, Ms. Pelosi appeared to be aiming for civility if not camaraderie. While Mr. Trump waved his hands theatrically, she sat with her hands folded in her lap. When she was interrupted, Ms. Pelosi politely tried to explain to Mr. Trump, who prides himself on his negotiating skills, how Congress works.
“No, we don’t have the votes, Nancy, because in the Senate we need 60 votes,” Mr. Trump said, a talking point he repeated multiple times.“No, we don’t have the votes, Nancy, because in the Senate we need 60 votes,” Mr. Trump said, a talking point he repeated multiple times.
“The fact is that you can get it started,” Ms. Pelosi rejoined. “The fact is that you could bring it up in the House if you have the votes to set the tone.” Ms. Pelosi rejoined, “The fact is that you can get it started. The fact is that you could bring it up in the House if you have the votes to set the tone.”
Ms. Pelosi’s civics course continued: “Legislating, which is what we do. You begin, you make your point, and you state your case and that is what the House Republicans could do if they had the votes. But there are no votes in the House, majority votes, for the wall, no matter where you start.” Ms. Pelosi’s civics course continued: “Legislating, which is what we do. You begin, you make your point, you state your case. That’s what the House Republicans could do if they had the votes. But there are no votes in the House, majority votes, for a wall, no matter where you start.”
Looking exasperated, Mr. Trump finally called an end to the public portion of their meeting. Looking exasperated, Mr. Trump finally relented and called an end to the public portion of their meeting, as White House aides shooed the cameramen out the door.
But it was Ms. Pelosi who made sure, at least for the moment, that she got the last word.
Speaking to reporters outside the White House after the meeting, Ms. Pelosi suggested that she actually had gone easy on the president. “I did not want to, in front of those people, say that you don’t know what you’re talking about,” she said.