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CNN Democratic Debate: Candidates Clash on Health Care, Immigration
6 Highlights from Night 1 of the July Democratic Debates
(about 1 hour later)
Mr. Sanders and his team of advisers have openly mocked the idea of how debates have become political spectacle. But Mr. Sanders offered a series of tighter and more quotable answers on Tuesday than he did in Miami a month ago.
DETROIT — It was one of the most substantive presidential primary debates in recent memory, and the two Democratic candidates with the most ambitious plans dominated the stage.
One came when asked about how his more noninterventionist stance would differentiate himself with Mr. Trump.
Most other candidates? Not so much. But a few 2020 hopefuls did stand out.
“Trump is a pathological liar,” Mr. Sanders said. “I tell the truth.”
Here are six takeaways from Tuesday night’s debate:
In the foreign policy segment, Mr. Buttigieg, who served abroad in the armed forces, said he was committed to withdrawing America troops Afghanistan within a year of inauguration.
There were Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, and then there was everybody else.
“We will withdraw,” he said. “We have to.”
There was a lot of hype that this first debate between the two leading progressives would become a study in contrasts, and that Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders might angle for a way to outshine the other. But neither showed the least bit of interest in going head-to-head.
Mr. O’Rourke cast himself as a candidate who would seek to disentangle America from conflicts abroad.
Instead the debate was a lovefest from the moment they walked onstage, as Ms. Warren wrapped her arm around Mr. Sanders’s shoulder in a warm greeting.
“There’s no reason for us to be at war all over the world tonight. As president I will end the wars and we will not start new wars. We’ll not send more members overseas to sacrifice their lives and take the lives of others in our name. We can resolve these challenges peacefully and diplomatically,” he said.
Rather than attack one another, they each swatted away attempts to draw blood by former Representative John Delaney and the other moderates onstage. Ms. Warren at times did a better job of articulating what Mr. Sanders’s policies would mean for middle-class Americans, while Mr. Sanders pronounced that “Elizabeth is right” when CNN’s moderators tried to bait him into disagreeing with her on trade policy.
Ms. Warren and Mr. Bullock, meanwhile, disagreed about whether America should ever consider using nuclear weapons first in a potential conflict. She ruled it out. He would not.
Their nonaggression pact may have benefited Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders more than a battle. Both left the stage with the night’s best viral moments and made the larger arguments for the liberal cause and their own electability.
The Democratic candidates diverged sharply over how much student debt the government should cover in an effort to make college more accessible and affordable.
Sure, there were sound bites aplenty: the Sanders campaign emailed supporters with the subject line “I wrote the damn bill” about Medicare for All before the debate even ended. But the night was marked by long stretches of substantive policy discussion that helped to map the candidates along a clear ideological spectrum.
”I have heard some people here tonight and I wonder why you’re Democrats,” Ms. Williamson said as she argued that any effort that helps “people thrive” can help stimulate the nation’s economic engines. “You think there’s something wrong about using the instruments of government to help people.”
From immigration to climate change, gun control to foreign policy, the debate cleaved the field into more moderate and more progressive camps. The sharpest and most complex disagreements came on health care. It is, after all, the issue that many strategists believe cost Democrats congressional seats in 2010 and 2014, and then helped usher them back to power in 2018.
Mr. Sanders, who supports an expansive effort to cover student debt, called for a “political revolution” to address wealth inequality at every level.
On the left, Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren defended a Medicare for All proposal that would phase out the role of private insurers. That drew multiple warnings of its potential potency for Republicans, and of its dramatic impact on Americans happy with their current insurance. Former Representative Beto O’Rourke said those two rivals — though not by name — were “talking about taking away people’s choice for the private insurance they have.”
On the other side of the argument was Ms. Klobuchar, who advocated for a more incremental approach as she worried that “some of these plans” would cover the college costs of “wealthy kids,” of “Wall Street kids,” resulting, she said, in crippling debt for the “next generation.”
As an alternative, Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s pitched his “Medicare for all who want it” plan, while others suggested their own variations of layering a public option onto the existing Affordable Care Act. “I just have a better way to do this,” Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota said of her plan.
Mr. Buttigieg also was not as sweeping in his proposal, zeroing in instead on the issue of for-profit colleges, saying, “If we want to start wiping away student debt here’s where I start. I would start with the for profit colleges that took advantage of people, especially veterans.”
Substance doesn’t always carry debate nights, but it did for long stretches on Tuesday.
As the debate neared the end of its second hour, Ms. Warren and Mr. Delaney engaged in another clash, this time over free trade.
[The candidates sparred angrily over what kind of health care was best for Americans.]
Ms. Warren, Mr. Delaney said, “just issued a trade plan that would prevent the United States from trading with its allies. We can’t go isolate ourselves from the world. We have to engage.”
Mr. O’Rourke of Texas has struggled to gain momentum in a crowded presidential field. And in the debate, he did not land the really big moment he needed to invigorate his candidacy, fading from the spotlight as other candidates took the lead in pursuing memorable exchanges.
“For decades we have had a trade policy that has been written by giant multinational corporations to help giant multinational corporations,” Ms. Warren shot back. “They have no loyalty to America. They have no patriotism. If they can save a nickel by moving a job to Mexico, they’ll do it in heartbeat.”
He was not alone: Ms. Klobuchar, who is running as a Minnesota moderate, advocated for her more centrist views but did not engage in the kind of direct clashes with her ideological opponents that often help lower-polling candidates stand out.
Mr. Delaney went on to say that Ms. Warren’s plan is “so extreme it will isolate American economy from the world.”
Mr. Buttigieg outpaces both of those contenders in polling, and he leads the field in fund-raising, so he faced less pressure to generate viral moments. He did gain notice for several lines, including his passionate message to Republicans willing to overlook Mr. Trump’s most controversial statements. But he also declined some opportunities to draw crisp contrasts with his opponents — most noticeably when he skipped the chance to make a direct generational argument against his opponents when asked about age — and he was often overshadowed by Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders.
“What the congressman is describing as extreme,” Ms. Warren said, “is having deals that are negotiated by American workers, for American workers.”
[Highlights from the first two Democratic primary debates.]
As the conversation turned to the issue of race relations, Ms. Warren was asked how she would tackle rising violence in America that has been tied to white supremacists.
On a crowded debate stage that is expected to shrink dramatically by the next round in September, Gov. Steve Bullock of Montana made the most of his first time in the spotlight. He forcefully articulated the case for a more moderate Democratic Party without seeking to tear down the popular progressives standing at center stage.
“We need to call it out white supremacy for what it is: domestic terrorism,” Ms. Warren said. “And it poses a threat to the United States of America.”
He pitched his success winning over Republicans in Montana, which gave more gravity to his warnings of where the Democratic Party was drifting too far left. Twice, he quoted President Obama’s former Homeland Security secretary to make the point that decriminalizing border crossings would only draw more immigrants attempting to cross the border.
Ms. Williamson also embraced the domestic terrorism label, saying in America, “There was 250 years of slavery followed by another hundred years of domestic terrorism.”
Mr. Bullock handled the one tough question about his own record — his recent flip on gun control — as he invoked his own up-close experience with the ravages of gun violence with the killing of his 11-year-old nephew. But he seemed to stumble late in his exchanges with Ms. Warren about not ruling out a nuclear first strike.
Ms. Williamson said reparations were already clearly necessary and that even her plan for $500 billion would be insufficient if one considered the failed promise of “40 acres and a mule” to former slaves after the Civil War.
Overall, Mr. Bullock’s performance may have given a fresh life not only to his candidacy but also the calls of some Democrats that he run for Senate, instead of the White House, in 2020.
In response to a question about the water crisis in Flint, Mich., Ms. Williamson said:
After her appearance in the first set of debates, Marianne Williamson, the best-selling self-help author, was widely mocked for her spiritual aphorisms and talk of political love. Republicans even launched a tongue-in-cheek campaign to keep her on the stage.
My response is Flint is the tip of the iceberg. I was in Denmark, S.C., where it is a lot of talk about it being the next Flint. We have an administration that has gutted the Clean Water Act. We have communities, particularly communities of color and disadvantaged communities all over this country, who are suffering from environmental injustice.
Fewer are laughing after her second showing. The author and spiritual adviser delivered a sharp answer on reparations that put a specific price tag on an issue that the rest of the field would prefer to talk about in gauzy generalities.
I assure you: I lived in Grosse Pointe, what happened in Flint would not have happened in Grosse Pointe.
“It’s not $500 billion in financial assistance, it’s a $200- to $500-billion payment of a debt that is owed,” she said. “We need deep truth-telling when it comes, we don’t need another commission to look at evidence.”
This is part of the dark underbelly of American society. The racism, the bigotry, and the entire conversation that we’re having here tonight — if you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I’m afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days.
Yes, she still warned of “dark psychic forces” in politics. Yes, she still promised “radical truth-telling.” But in her quest to be taken seriously as a political candidate, Ms. Williamson was no longer regulated to the comic relief of the evening.
We need to say it like it is, it’s bigger than Flint. It’s all over this country. It’s particularly people of color. It’s particularly people who do not have the money to fight back, and if the Democrats don’t start saying it, why would those people feel they’re there for us, and if those people don’t feel it, they won’t vote for us, and Donald Trump will win.
[Read more about Ms. Williamson’s comments at Tuesday’s debate.]
The Democratic candidates agreed broadly that climate change poses a significant threat to the planet, but clashed sharply over how boldly the nation should address it.
Former Representative John Delaney of Maryland is such a long shot candidate that he does not register in some polls. But on Tuesday, he found a way to land time in the spotlight: By emerging, for much of the debate, as the stage’s loudest moderate voice.
Some of the more moderate contenders, including Mr. Hickenlooper and Mr. Delaney, took issue with the Green New Deal, a far-reaching climate proposal supported by some of the contenders onstage including Ms. Warren.
On issues ranging from health care to climate change to trade, he consistently and combatively staked out centrist positions, earning split-screen moments with Ms. Warren and frequently finding ways to interject.
Ms. Warren suggested that Democrats unwilling to support sweeping proposals sound like Republicans.
In many exchanges, he overshadowed a number of the other moderate contenders onstage, including Ms. Klobuchar, former Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado and Representative Tim Ryan of Ohio.
“What you want to do instead is find the Republican talking point of a made up piece of some other part and say, ‘Oh, we don’t really have to do anything,’” Ms. Warren said. “That’s the problem we’ve got in Washington right now.”
The ultimate impact is likely to be negligible given Mr. Delaney’s low polling numbers and struggles to break through in the crowded field. But it was a reminder that there is room in the middle for a moderate voice to stand out, something former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., the field’s current poll leader, will seek to do on Wednesday night.
“I get a little bit tired of Democrats afraid of big ideas,” Mr. Sanders added. “Republicans are not afraid of big ideas.”
Lisa Lerer and Reid J. Epstein reported from Detroit. Katie Glueck and Shane Goldmacher contributed reporting from New York.
After the latest commercial break, the debate turned to a topic that polls show Democratic voters are obsessed with: beating President Trump.
Mr. Hickenlooper was asked about his past warning that embracing socialism, and Mr. Sanders in particular, would doom the Democratic Party. He hesitated to attack Mr. Sanders personally but whacked at his policies.
“That is a disaster at the ballot box. You might as well FedEx the election to Donald Trump,” Mr. Hickenlooper said, citing the Medicare for All plan that would eliminate private insurance for 180 million Americans.
Mr. Sanders responded: “The truth is that every credible poll that I have seen has me beating Donald Trump!” To which Mr. Ryan interjected: “Hillary Clinton was winning in the polls, too!”
Several of the candidates made impassioned cases for more robust gun control measures and for reining in the National Rifle Association.
Mr. Buttigieg, 37, referenced his experience as a member of a younger generation to make an urgent case for gun reform.
“This is the exact same conversation we have been having when I was in high school,” he said. “I was a junior when the Columbine shooting happened. I am the first generation to see school shootings. We have produced the second generation.”
Other candidates who have not always been staunch advocates of gun control stressed that today they want to see stricter measures.
“I come from one of the most rural states in America,” Mr. Sanders said, asked about a past statement expressing doubt about the impact of gun control measures. “I have a D-minus voting record from the NRA and as president I suspect it will be an F record. What I believe we have got to do is have the guts to finally take on the N.R.A.”
After extensive exchanges on health care, the debate turned to immigration and whether crossing the border should be decriminalized.
"When I am president, illegally crossing the border will still be illegal,” Mr. Buttigieg said. “We can argue over the finer points of which parts should be handled by civil law and criminal law.”
Ms. Warren argued for fully decriminalizing border crossing, saying of Mr. Trump, “It’s what gives him the ability to lock up people at our borders.”
Mr. O’Rourke said he would decriminalize, adding, “I expect that people who come here follow our laws and we reserve the right to criminally prosecute them.”
Two of the more centrist contenders onstage, Mr. Bullock and Mr. Ryan, ripped into the immigration proposals advocated by Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders. Mr. Bullock warned that the debate was only going to help President Trump, who has shown a penchant for mobilizing his base on the issue of immigration.
“You are playing into Donald Trump’s hands,” Mr. Bullock said.
The opening section of the debate featured a deeply substantive discussion of health care, one of the issues with the largest gulf between the Democratic field.
On the left, Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren embraced Medicare for All. The rest of the field, like Mr. Buttigieg and Mr. Bullock, took more moderate positions.
“I just have a better way to do this,” Ms. Klobuchar said, after she was asked to respond to past remarks from Ms. Warren that those who do not want to fully overhaul the current system are “spineless.”
As some moderates onstage warned that Republicans would attack the Democrats for proposing major “Medicare for all” programs, Mr. Buttigieg said that Democrats should press on with their ideas.
“It’s time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say,” he said to applause. “If it’s true that if we embrace a far left agenda, they’re going to say we’re a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they’re going to do? They’re going to say we’re a bunch of crazy socialists. So let’s just stand up for the right policy and go up there and defend it.”
He went on to pitch his “Medicare for all who want it” health care program, which would allow the public to opt into government coverage as an option.
Mr. Ryan, who represents a blue-collar slice of Ohio, clashed with Mr. Sanders over the question of how Medicare for All would affect union members who like their health care plans.”
You don’t know that,” Mr. Ryan interjected when Mr. Sanders argued that his plan would provide better, more comprehensive coverage.
“I do know,” Mr. Sanders replied. “I wrote the damn bill.”
The first question of the debate went to Mr. Sanders, who was asked about Mr. Delaney’s accusation in his opening statement that his push for Medicare for All would re-elect President Trump.
“You’re wrong!” Mr. Sanders said.
The audience cheered.
Mr. Sanders went on to outline his position and highlight the debate’s proximity to Canada.
“Five minutes away from here, John, is a country called Canada. They guarantee health care to every man, woman and child as a human right. They spend half of what we spend and by the way, when you end up in a hospital in Canada, you come out with no bill at all,” Mr. Sanders said.
Mr. Delaney argued against Medicare for All, which would phase out the private insurance industry. “We don’t have to go around and be the party of subtraction,” he said.
Ms. Warren, who along with Mr. Sanders supports Medicare for All, jumped in to side with Mr. Sanders against Mr. Delaney.
“We are the Democrats,” Ms. Warren said. “We should stop using Republican talking points.”
Reported and written by Katie Glueck and Shane Goldmacher.
