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Brexit: How are the UK's talks with the EU going? Brexit: How are the UK's talks with the EU going?
(4 days later)
EU officials say the UK is "dancing around the issues" in talks in Brussels on a Brexit deal. The EU's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has said "a lot of work needs to be done in the next few days" if any progress is to be made in talks with UK officials on Brexit.
Boris Johnson's government is seeking to renegotiate the withdrawal deal agreed by his predecessor, Theresa May, but discussions so far have been at a very general level. He was speaking after another meeting in Brussels with the UK Brexit Secretary, Steve Barclay.
The EU maintains the text of the withdrawal agreement is closed but it is still listening. "We had serious detailed discussions," Mr Barclay said. "And we both want to see a deal."
"The UK wants a less involved relationship," says one EU source close to the talks, "but it's not clear what that means in practice." Technical teams are meeting again next week and Prime Minister Boris Johnson will meet European Council President Donald Tusk, among others, at the UN General Assembly in New York.
The prime minister's Brexit envoy, David Frost, has been in regular meetings in Brussels but time is running short. Mr Johnson's overall approach is "let's just get this done."
UK officials say criticism of their approach, from the EU side, is unfair. His government is seeking to renegotiate the withdrawal deal agreed by his predecessor, Theresa May. But while it says progress is being made, no formal proposals have been tabled.
"We're having conversations this week which pick up on last week's discussions," one official says, "and we've agreed where to focus talks in the future." EU officials have previously suggested that the UK has been "dancing around the issues" during the talks in Brussels.
"Let's get this done," is the message from Mr Johnson and he has been meeting, and will continue to meet, other EU leaders. But there's no sign any country is breaking ranks to negotiate separately with the UK. The UK has now presented informal suggestions in what are known as 'non-papers', but on the substance it is clear that significant differences remain between the two sides.
That means the focus is still in Brussels.
So far this week, the UK side says it has presented ideas on customs and manufactured goods, while there has been further discussion on the non-binding political declaration which sits alongside the withdrawal agreement and outlines the future relationship between the two sides.
But while the government says progress is being made, the EU insists no formal proposals have been tabled.
EU diplomats have been told by the European Commission that the UK suggested Northern Ireland and Ireland should form separate customs and regulatory territories, with checks carried out in business premises, not on the border.
The UK team talked of an "enhanced market surveillance scheme" for industrial goods moving between the UK and the EU single market, which would make use of increased surveillance, data sharing and tough penalties for infringement.
But EU officials described the UK ideas as "conceptual" and "aspirational".
"We want to keep this going," an EU source says. "But at some point the UK needs to give us a proposal. We can't negotiate without one."
The EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has updated members of the European Parliament and said "we do not have reasons to be optimistic...the ball is clearly in the British court".
Irish backstopIrish backstop
Both sides say the UK has asked for the protocol on Ireland to be stripped back pretty radically - to remove the backstop designed to keep the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland as open as it is now under all future circumstances. The UK is insisting that the protocol on Ireland in the withdrawal agreement has to be stripped back pretty radically - to remove the backstop. It is designed to keep the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (which will be the only land border between the EU and the UK after Brexit) as open as it is now, under all future circumstances.
The EU has always said it is open to an alternative plan to guarantee an open border - but at the moment it doesn't think there is one. The EU had previously said that the text of the withdrawal agreement could not be reopened.
The idea of an all-Ireland zone for food and animals (in which the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland would follow the same rules after Brexit) has been explored and officials say the UK has presented "preliminary ideas" on how any solution in Ireland could involve the consent of all parties. In a sign of some flexibility, that position has changed.
But UK officials reject the suggestion such discussions could evolve into a backstop - which would cover all aspects of trade - for Northern Ireland only, rather than the current plan, which would keep the whole of the UK in the EU's customs territory. It has now said it is willing to look at alternatives. But in a statement issued after the meeting between Mr Barnier and Mr Barclay it said any solution would have to be legally sound and meet "all of the objectives of the backstop".
"It's still a no to the Northern Irish backstop," one official says. That's a problem because the UK appears to be asking not only for a different solution to the impasse, but for a different final outcome.
Negotiating team The backstop involves regulatory alignment between Ireland and Northern Ireland in order to keep the border open, and to protect the integrity of the EU's single market (as well as the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement).
So, the Irish border issue remains the biggest obstacle to any new deal. But in a speech in Madrid this week, Mr Barclay warned against seeking a "purist, identical result" which could only be achieved by never leaving parts of the single market and the customs union.
But nearly all the UK officials in the Brexit negotiations that produced the current withdrawal agreement, including the backstop, are no longer involved in the process. "The EU risks continuing to insist on a test that the UK cannot meet, and that the UK Parliament has rejected three times," he said.
"The core of the UK's negotiating team has gone," Joe Owen, of the Institute for Government, says. "We risk being trapped in a zero-sum game, which will lead to zero outcomes, which I do not want."
"They've either left Whitehall altogether or gone to other jobs across government. There's been a big loss of institutional knowledge." Mr Barclay also suggested that the details could be sorted out in a transition period after Brexit - a position that the EU seems certain to reject.
Many Brexiteers may regard that as a good thing - but it may not help produce quick results. Any progress?
The size of the Europe unit in the Cabinet Office has been reduced dramatically but senior officials dispute suggestions the negotiating team is smaller or weaker. So what progress, if any, has been made?
"It's just that the support is coming from a different place," the permanent secretary at the Cabinet Office, John Manzoni, told MPs on Monday. "In fact there are probably more people [involved now]." The idea of an all-Ireland zone for food and animals, in which the Republic and Northern Ireland would follow the same rules after Brexit, has been explored and officials say the UK has presented "preliminary ideas" on how any solution in Ireland could involve the consent of all parties.
A deal on the strict rules regulating the agri-food industry is vital because it makes up a significant chunk of trade across the Irish border.
But it wouldn't cover everything.
And the UK has rejected any suggestion that such discussions could evolve into a backstop - which would cover all aspects of trade - for Northern Ireland only, rather than the current plan, which would keep the whole of the UK in the EU's customs territory.
"It's still a no to the Northern Irish backstop," one official said.
In other words, the UK is sticking with the suggestion that Northern Ireland and Ireland should form separate customs and regulatory territories, with checks carried out in business premises, not on the border.
The UK team has talked of an "enhanced market surveillance scheme" for industrial goods moving between the UK and the EU single market, which would make use of increased surveillance, data sharing and tough penalties for infringement.
But EU officials have described the UK ideas as "conceptual" and "aspirational".
"We want to keep this going," an EU source says. "But at some point the UK needs to give us a proposal. We can't negotiate without one."
And there is obvious scepticism on the EU side about the ability of alternative arrangements, including things like trusted-trader schemes, to provide an overall solution.
"There have been a number of proposed solutions by various groups [on] alternative arrangements," Ireland's deputy Prime Minister, Simon Coveney, told the BBC.
"When they've been tested they haven't stood up to scrutiny. That's just the truth of it."
The essence of the EU argument? We can't replace a legal guarantee with a promise.
Future relationshipFuture relationship
As well as replacing the backstop, Boris Johnson wants a clearer path to what he calls a "best-in-class" Canada-style free-trade agreement with the EU in the future. But it's not just about the backstop.
But it has been made clear during the talks in Brussels that this would involve the UK getting rid of many "level playing field" elements - promises agreed by Theresa May to stick close to EU rules on things such as subsidies for business, workers' rights and environmental rules. Boris Johnson also wants a clearer path, in the political declaration on the future relationship, to what he calls a "best-in-class", Canada-style free-trade agreement with the EU.
It has been made clear during the talks in Brussels that this would involve the UK getting rid of many "level playing field" elements - promises agreed by Theresa May to stick close to EU rules on things such as subsidies for business, workers' rights and environmental rules.
That, though, could make it harder to reach an eventual agreement on a free-trade deal.That, though, could make it harder to reach an eventual agreement on a free-trade deal.
The EU is far more nervous about level playing field issues with the UK than it is with a country such as Canada because the UK is much closer geographically and a far larger trading partner, so it poses a much greater competitive threat. The EU is far more nervous about level-playing field issues with the UK than it is with a country such as Canada because the UK is much closer geographically and a far larger trading partner. So it poses a much greater competitive threat.
And the less likely it is a trade deal can be done relatively quickly in the future, the more likely it is the EU will stick rigidly to the terms of the backstop.And the less likely it is a trade deal can be done relatively quickly in the future, the more likely it is the EU will stick rigidly to the terms of the backstop.
"What we cannot do, and will not do, is replace a legal guarantee with a promise," said the Irish Prime Minister, Leo Varadkar, at a press conference with Boris Johnson in Dublin this week. There is also a sense from those involved in the talks that the UK's desire for a looser relationship involves not just economic issues but defence and security, too.
Clock ticking
There is also a sense from those involved in the talks the UK's desire for a looser relationship involves not just economic issues but defence and security too.
All of this exasperates the EU.All of this exasperates the EU.
"The UK wants a less involved relationship," said one EU source close to the talks. "But it's not clear what that means in practice."
Time is tight
There is plenty of churn behind the scenes but little certainty about anything.There is plenty of churn behind the scenes but little certainty about anything.
Philip Rycroft, who was until recently the permanent secretary at the Department for Exiting the European Union, says it will be very difficult to get a deal done by mid-October. Philip Rycroft, who was until recently the permanent secretary at the Department for Exiting the European Union, has said it will be very difficult to get a deal done by mid-October.
"I think it is possible," he says, "but I don't see the other 26 countries ignoring the interests of Ireland… and time is crushingly tight." "I think it is possible," he said. "But I don't see the other 26 countries ignoring the interests of Ireland… and time is crushingly tight."
If the EU were to shift position on any issue, it would want some degree of confidence a new deal could win the approval of the UK Parliament.If the EU were to shift position on any issue, it would want some degree of confidence a new deal could win the approval of the UK Parliament.
That could mean waiting for a general election - but if anything is going to be achieved in these talks, it is going to have to happen pretty quickly.That could mean waiting for a general election - but if anything is going to be achieved in these talks, it is going to have to happen pretty quickly.
"I'm not optimistic, and I'm not pessimistic," Michel Barnier said, quoting one of the EU's founding fathers, Jean Monnet. "I'm still determined."
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