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Stephen Barclay gives evidence to Commons Brexit committee – live news Brexit: Irish PM hints extra EU summit might be needed because 'many issues' still to be resolved– live news
(32 minutes later)
ITV’s Robert Peston say the DUP are going back to Downing Street for another meeting.
DUP going back into Downing St, to try to find a way through roadblock. https://t.co/TDNS9amGqy
Leo Varadkar, the Irish taoiseach (prime minister), has been speaking this morning, Sky’s Beth Rigby reports. He said he had spoken to Boris Johnson and to the European commission this morning. He said that he was still confident but that there were “many issues” to be resolved and that another EU summit later this month might be needed.
NEW: Varadkar. Spoken to PM this am. Hopes issues can be resolved today, if not still more time as he floats a possible second summit before Oct 31 pic.twitter.com/C7HMkBRnwO
The Tory Brexiter Craig Mackinlay goes next. He says he welcomes what the government is saying about the political declaration (covering the future relationship). There was too much “vassalage” in Theresa May’s version, he says.
Barclay says there is a “shared desire” with the EU to move on to that stage of the talks.
Q: You and Michael Gove have both said you would back Theresa May’s deal. But it would stop us negotiating good trade deals, wouldn’t it? I am concerned about you thinking along those lines.
Barclay says Boris Johnson has been clear about the kind of trade deal he is seeking.
The former Tory cabinet minister Stephen Crabb goes next.
Q: What makes this deal better than Theresa May’s deal?
Barclay says the key difference is that the Boris Johnson plan would be deliverable. Johnson is looking for something that would get through parliament.
Q: So why were ERG (European Research Group) MPs so angry after being briefed in No 10 last night?
Barclay says he cannot say, as he was not there.
Q: Is it fair to say we are moving to a Northern Ireland-only backstop, not a UK-wide one?
Barclay says the PM said in his letter to President Juncker earlier this month that the UK must leave the EU whole and entire.
Q: Do you acccept, though, that Northern Ireland will be treated differently.
Barclay says the sovereignty of the UK must be respected, and that includes in relation to the customs union.
Q: Would you be comfortable with a short, technical extension to allow more time for the details to be finalised?
No, says Barclay. He says the Commons can legislate quickly. These issues have been discussed extensively. No one thinks MPs have not had enough time to debate Brexit, he says.
Barclay says he would oppose even a short, technical extension.
Stephen Timms, the Labour MP, is asking the questions now.
Q: HM Revenue and Customs says a no-deal Brexit would cost business £15bn. Your party used to be opposed to burdens on business.
Barclay says the government wants a deal.
Q: Would the government help businesses cover these costs?
Barclay repeats the point about wanting a deal.
From Bloomberg’s Dara Doyle
interesting from Sammy Wilson to our @Jess_Shankleman : ``If the union is weakened no amount of money will get us to accept the deal.''
Sammy Wilson is the DUP’s Brexit spokesman.
From Bloomberg’s Nikos Chrysoloras
Breaking: EU sees Brexit negotiations at impasse, as remaining issues can't be resolved at technical level. A new mandate from London is needed. UK government is trying to get DUP on board. More on @TheTerminal
These are from Sky’s Beth Rigby
So..legal text submitted but mood in No 10 a little downcast this morning. Govt source tells me it’s going to be tough to get something over line. PM held 3 hours of talks with DUP over past 36, but if he can’t get Foster over line, the ERG falls away & then no chance of majority
Source says some of optimism recent days now feels bit over-egged. PM’s win is to have NI to leave CU with rest of GB. BUT EU needs customs checks somewhere & if not N-S has to be at ports. DUP might decide they cannot go further than the concession on E-W regulatory checks 2/
From my colleague Daniel BoffeyFrom my colleague Daniel Boffey
The deal is there but the DUP may yet pull the rug from under it. This is so 4th December 2017: the day that Arlene trashed Theresa May's first go at this. https://t.co/6qLx71FoePThe deal is there but the DUP may yet pull the rug from under it. This is so 4th December 2017: the day that Arlene trashed Theresa May's first go at this. https://t.co/6qLx71FoeP
The Tory Brexiter Andrea Jenkyns is asking questions now. She says she was critical of Theresa May’s handling of Brexit (she is one of the 28 “Spartans”, who voted against May’s deal three times) but she says she supports what Boris Johnson is doing.The Tory Brexiter Andrea Jenkyns is asking questions now. She says she was critical of Theresa May’s handling of Brexit (she is one of the 28 “Spartans”, who voted against May’s deal three times) but she says she supports what Boris Johnson is doing.
Q: Do you think the Benn Act has weakened the government’s negotiating stance? Q: Do you think the Benn act has weakened the government’s negotiating stance?
Barclay says it has been “unhelpful”.Barclay says it has been “unhelpful”.
Benn is now asking questions about the plan for an alternative to the backstop published by Boris Johnson earlier this month. The government’s explanation of those plans is here (pdf).Benn is now asking questions about the plan for an alternative to the backstop published by Boris Johnson earlier this month. The government’s explanation of those plans is here (pdf).
Q: The plan says, if Northern Ireland withdraws consent, the customs rules default to existing rules. What are they?Q: The plan says, if Northern Ireland withdraws consent, the customs rules default to existing rules. What are they?
Barclay says they would be the rules that would be in place if there were no deal.Barclay says they would be the rules that would be in place if there were no deal.
Benn says that means there would be a hard border in Ireland.Benn says that means there would be a hard border in Ireland.
Q: How can the government propose something that would lead to a hard border, if Northern Ireland withdrew consent, when the UK government is opposed to a hard border?Q: How can the government propose something that would lead to a hard border, if Northern Ireland withdrew consent, when the UK government is opposed to a hard border?
Barclay says the UK government is opposed to a hard border. It would not put up infrastructure at the border.Barclay says the UK government is opposed to a hard border. It would not put up infrastructure at the border.
Two Tory Brexiters on the committee, Craig Mackinlay and Andrea Jenkyns, complain about Benn’s questioning, saying he is taking up too much time and could be seen as biased, because he put through the Benn Act.Two Tory Brexiters on the committee, Craig Mackinlay and Andrea Jenkyns, complain about Benn’s questioning, saying he is taking up too much time and could be seen as biased, because he put through the Benn Act.
Benn asks Barclay how long it would take the government to pass the withdrawal agreement legislation if there is a deal.Benn asks Barclay how long it would take the government to pass the withdrawal agreement legislation if there is a deal.
Barclay tells him that his own bill (the Benn Act - the law requiring the PM to request an extension if there is no deal) showed that it is possible for the Commons to pass legislation very quickly.Barclay tells him that his own bill (the Benn Act - the law requiring the PM to request an extension if there is no deal) showed that it is possible for the Commons to pass legislation very quickly.
Q: If there is no agreement reached, will the PM write the letter he has to send by the end of Saturday requesting a Brexit extension?
Barclay says the PM will comply with the Benn Act, and with the undertakings given to the court in Scotland.
Q: Why did the PM spend so long saying he wouldn’t?
Barclay says the government is committed to leaving by 31 October.
Q: How will the UK leave the EU on 31 October if the PM sends the extension letter. The two things are incompatible.
Barclay says there are a number of variables.
The best way to leave on 31 October is to get a deal, he says. The government is “absolutely committed” to this. He says he had 11 bilateral meetings with counterparts in Luxembourg yesterday.
Q: If the PM sends the letter, and the EU grants an extension until 31 January, we cannot leave on 31 October, can we?
Barclay says Benn is getting “several steps ahead”.
Barclay refuses to tell MPs how the government could meet its commitment to leave the EU by 31 October if it has to comply with the Benn Act.
Q: Are you negotiating a revised political declaration with the EU?
Yes, says Barclay. He says the UK and the EU are discussing revised text.
Q: Would that be published at the same time as the revised text of the withdrawal agreement?
Barclay says the government would want to give as much information to MPs as possible.
Q: But MPs would be voting on both?
Barclay says that is not necessarily the case. The third “meaningful vote” was only on the withdrawal agreement (WA). The first two were on the WA and the political declaration.
Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, has just started giving evidence to the Commons Brexit committee.
Hilary Benn, the committee chairs, asks if the Commons will meet on Saturday if there is no deal. Barclay says that will be something for Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, to announce.
ComRes has released some Brexit polling this morning, which was commissioned for a Channel 5 programme going out tonight, Live Brexit Referendum. It was an unusually large poll, featuring 26,000 respondents. Most polls involve 1,000 or 2,000 people taking part.
Here are the key findings.
More than half of voters want the UK to abide by the referendum result and leave the EU, when don’t knows are excluded, the poll suggests. Some 50% want the UK to leave the EU against 42% who want it to remain in. But, when don’t knows are excluded, those figures amount to 54% for leave and 46% for remain.
The Irish agriculture minister, Michael Creed, said this morning there was some room for optimism in relation to Brexit. He said:
This time last week we were probably engulfed in darkness and depression in the context of Brexit.
There is some room for optimism now but we’re not there yet. However I would countenance if we do get a deal in Brussels on Brexit we have been here before with the withdrawal agreement which didn’t get through the House of Commons so there are some hurdles to be cleared yet and I’m not underestimating those in any way.
They are significant and reflective of the magnitude of the challenge but we remain hopeful.
From Bloomberg’s Nikos Chrysoloras
Boris Johnson’s government is pessimistic about the chances of securing a #Brexit deal after his Northern Irish allies raised objections to the plans that have been drawn up in talks in Brussels, according to a British official, @TimRoss_1 reports. https://t.co/TWY3PGvbVt
The DUP is denying multiple reports this morning that it had been offered “billions” in Downing St talks in the past two days. A DUP spokesman said: “This is categorically untrue and utter nonsense.“The DUP secured £1bn in investment for Northern Ireland as part of the confidence and supply deal with Theresa May after the 2017 election returned a hung parliament. Reports in Ireland suggest what might be on the table is a package involving the EU, Ireland and the UK.The EU has already promised it will continue, whatever the outcome of Brexit talks, the Peace IV programme which has invested millions in cross-community initiatives. Northern Ireland also benefits from the Interreg regional programme for bordering countries, which also includes Scotland.
Those reports prompted this tweet last night from Nick Macpherson, a former permanent secretary to the Treasury.
Another difficult night in prospect for HM Treasury. Every PM I worked under sought to answer the Irish question. And, whether or not they succeeded, the prospective deal required up front many millions, sometimes billions, of cash. #dotheyeverlearn
Mark Francois, the deputy chair of the European Research Group, which represents Tories pushing for a harder Brexit, has just told Sky’s All Out Politics that he and his ERG colleagues have “a number of concerns” about what is being proposed by Boris Johnson. But he refused to give details.
He also said that he would give “very strong weight” to the views of the DUP when deciding whether or not to back any deal negotiated by Johnson (backing up what David Davis told the Today programme – see 9.03am.)
He also said that, if no deal is agreed in Brussels this week, he would not expect the emergency sitting of the House of Commons planned for Saturday to go ahead.
Asked if he would be willing to accept another extension, keeping the UK in the EU beyond 31 October (which many EU figures believe would be essential, even if a deal is agreed this week, to allow time for the details to be finalised), Francois did not firmly rule it out. But he said that most people in the country, particularly outside London, just wanted to see this matter sorted out.
Francois is one of the so-called “Spartans” – the 28 ERG Tories who voted against Theresa May’s deal on all three occasions.
From the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg
Govt sources are indicating this morning chances of a deal this week are now shrinking - this is of course, partly because room for manouvre limited by DUP and Brexiteers, even tho many of them are reluctantly on board
David Davis, the former Brexit secretary, told the Today programme this morning that some Tory Brexiters would be strongly influenced by the DUP in deciding whether or not to back Boris Johnson’s deal. In an interview this morning the presenter Nick Robinson pointed out that the DUP have 10 votes in the Commons. Davis said that understated their influence.
You said 10 votes, by the way earlier. Just as an aside on that, there will be quite a lot of Tory MPs who will take their line from what the DUP do.
Davis said he would not decide himself whether or not to back any deal negotiated by Johnson until he had read the detail. But he would take note of the DUP position, he said:
I will look at what they say. If the DUP says this is intolerable to us, that will be quite important.
When it was put to him that, when he was Brexit secretary, he said he would not accept any part of the UK being treated differently, and that the Johnson deal will treat Northern Ireland differently (because for practical purposes it would be in the EU customs union), Davis replied:
If we believe what we read, there is going to be complete openness between the British market, the rest of the UK market, and the Northern Ireland market for British goods sold in Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland goods sold in Britain. There would be a red channel, as it were, for outside goods. That’s what we are told. So that preserves that bit of it.
In terms of the union, we are not seeing a break-up of the union in those terms.
Davis voted against Theresa May’s deal in the first Commons “meaningful vote”. But in the two subsequent votes, he backed the deal.