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| Northern rail: Politicians call for Pacer trains compensation | Northern rail: Politicians call for Pacer trains compensation |
| (32 minutes later) | |
| Politicians in northern England are demanding that passengers still having to use the heavily-criticised Pacer trains should be offered reduced fares. | Politicians in northern England are demanding that passengers still having to use the heavily-criticised Pacer trains should be offered reduced fares. |
| Manchester mayor Andy Burnham, Sheffield City Region mayor Dan Jarvis and Leeds City Council leader Judith Blake have told train operator Northern using the ageing units is unacceptable. | Manchester mayor Andy Burnham, Sheffield City Region mayor Dan Jarvis and Leeds City Council leader Judith Blake have told train operator Northern using the ageing units is unacceptable. |
| Pacers are 1980s-built rail-buses meant as a short-term alternative for trains. | Pacers are 1980s-built rail-buses meant as a short-term alternative for trains. |
| Northern had planned to withdraw them all by the end of this year. | Northern had planned to withdraw them all by the end of this year. |
| The much-derided Pacers were originally constructed from the body of a bus frame and intended to have a maximum lifespan of 20 years. | The much-derided Pacers were originally constructed from the body of a bus frame and intended to have a maximum lifespan of 20 years. |
| In a letter to Northern, Mr Burnham, Mr Jarvis and Ms Blake said it was "unacceptable" that Northern would still be running services using Pacers into 2020, and called for an urgent meeting. | In a letter to Northern, Mr Burnham, Mr Jarvis and Ms Blake said it was "unacceptable" that Northern would still be running services using Pacers into 2020, and called for an urgent meeting. |
| "However, the alternative of withdrawing the Pacers without any alternative replacements, would be an even worse outcome," they said. | |
| "As we are forced into accepting the temporary retention of Pacers, we expect you to commit, as a matter of urgency, to appropriate financial compensation to the passengers affected." | "As we are forced into accepting the temporary retention of Pacers, we expect you to commit, as a matter of urgency, to appropriate financial compensation to the passengers affected." |
| They said fares should be reduced on all affected routes while the trains were being used. | They said fares should be reduced on all affected routes while the trains were being used. |
| Passengers "deserve a reliable, daily rail service", they added. | Passengers "deserve a reliable, daily rail service", they added. |
| 'Cattle trucks' | 'Cattle trucks' |
| Commuters complained of the trains being loud, leaky and bumpy with extreme temperatures. | Commuters complained of the trains being loud, leaky and bumpy with extreme temperatures. |
| Alison Campbell, a regular commuter on the 07:26 service from Mytholmroyd in West Yorkshire to Manchester, said there are often only two carriages meaning seats are rarely available and people are left "standing in the aisles". | Alison Campbell, a regular commuter on the 07:26 service from Mytholmroyd in West Yorkshire to Manchester, said there are often only two carriages meaning seats are rarely available and people are left "standing in the aisles". |
| "If you do actually manage to get a seat they are very cramped and uncomfortable," she said, adding: "Cattle truck springs to mind." | "If you do actually manage to get a seat they are very cramped and uncomfortable," she said, adding: "Cattle truck springs to mind." |
| Student Rimsha Sawant from Blackburn said she "sighs" when she sees her train is a Pacer and passengers "don't respect them". | Student Rimsha Sawant from Blackburn said she "sighs" when she sees her train is a Pacer and passengers "don't respect them". |
| "They need replacing because they are not good enough," she said. | "They need replacing because they are not good enough," she said. |
| "With all the technology we have we should at least have decent trains." | "With all the technology we have we should at least have decent trains." |
| Farrah Sattar, a 22-year-old University of Manchester student from Blackburn, said compensation would be welcome. | |
| "They are always late or cancelled at the last minute and can stop in the middle of nowhere," she said. | "They are always late or cancelled at the last minute and can stop in the middle of nowhere," she said. |
| Self-employed transport manager Kevyn Ashmore, 60, from Wrexham said the trains were "unacceptable" . | Self-employed transport manager Kevyn Ashmore, 60, from Wrexham said the trains were "unacceptable" . |
| He said train bosses "promised to upgrade the trains and put the prices up but they should put them down so more people use them". | He said train bosses "promised to upgrade the trains and put the prices up but they should put them down so more people use them". |
| A commuter who regularly uses the Calder Valley Line to Bradford said they were "draughty bone-shakers". | A commuter who regularly uses the Calder Valley Line to Bradford said they were "draughty bone-shakers". |
| The man, who gave his name as Phil, said Pacers are "either too hot or freezing" and their only "upside" is being "better than waiting on a bleak platform or for a train that was late or cancelled". | The man, who gave his name as Phil, said Pacers are "either too hot or freezing" and their only "upside" is being "better than waiting on a bleak platform or for a train that was late or cancelled". |
| 'Friendlier seating setup' | 'Friendlier seating setup' |
| But not everyone is a critic, with Sally Carter, who regularly travels across the north, saying she prefers them to more modern trains because of the seating arrangement and large windows. | But not everyone is a critic, with Sally Carter, who regularly travels across the north, saying she prefers them to more modern trains because of the seating arrangement and large windows. |
| "I'm rather fond of them and will be sad to see them go," she said. | "I'm rather fond of them and will be sad to see them go," she said. |
| "I like the three plus two seating which seems to allow a lot more people to get a seat, and it's a nicer, friendlier setup without the high backs some companies have opted for. | "I like the three plus two seating which seems to allow a lot more people to get a seat, and it's a nicer, friendlier setup without the high backs some companies have opted for. |
| "It's good to be able to look out at the north's great scenery." | "It's good to be able to look out at the north's great scenery." |
| Pacer trains have been regularly used on busy commuter routes, including those into Manchester, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Sheffield and York, as well as on the Merseyrail network. | Pacer trains have been regularly used on busy commuter routes, including those into Manchester, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Sheffield and York, as well as on the Merseyrail network. |
| As of October 2018, almost one in four vehicles operated by Northern was a Pacer according to the Department for Transport (Dft). | As of October 2018, almost one in four vehicles operated by Northern was a Pacer according to the Department for Transport (Dft). |
| A report from the DfT said of the 875 vehicles in its fleet at that time, 158 were Class 142 Pacers, built between 1985 and 1987, while a further 56 were Class 144, built between 1986 and 1988. | A report from the DfT said of the 875 vehicles in its fleet at that time, 158 were Class 142 Pacers, built between 1985 and 1987, while a further 56 were Class 144, built between 1986 and 1988. |
| Northern, owned by Arriva Rail North, previously said it was "working hard" to scrap all Pacers by the end of this year and pledged to replace them all with a new £500m fleet. | Northern, owned by Arriva Rail North, previously said it was "working hard" to scrap all Pacers by the end of this year and pledged to replace them all with a new £500m fleet. |
| But it emerged in June that, due to manufacturing delays in the new trains, "a small number" would still be in use in 2020. | But it emerged in June that, due to manufacturing delays in the new trains, "a small number" would still be in use in 2020. |
| Analysis | Analysis |
| By Danny Savage, BBC North of England correspondent | By Danny Savage, BBC North of England correspondent |
| Pacers are the laughing stock, rolling stock of the north. Introduced in the 1980s, they are rail-buses originally meant as a short-term solution to a shortage of trains. | Pacers are the laughing stock, rolling stock of the north. Introduced in the 1980s, they are rail-buses originally meant as a short-term solution to a shortage of trains. |
| Supporters say they've helped keep certain routes open and used. Detractors say they highlight the north/south divide and are relics. | Supporters say they've helped keep certain routes open and used. Detractors say they highlight the north/south divide and are relics. |
| Northern promised to withdraw Pacers by the end of this year. In February, the BBC reported concerns they were unlikely to meet that target but Northern strongly denied that was the case. | Northern promised to withdraw Pacers by the end of this year. In February, the BBC reported concerns they were unlikely to meet that target but Northern strongly denied that was the case. |
| They insisted they would be gone by the beginning of 2020. More recently, they have admitted some Pacer units will still be in operation into next year. | They insisted they would be gone by the beginning of 2020. More recently, they have admitted some Pacer units will still be in operation into next year. |
| Now a letter to Northern's management from northern political leaders says the retention of Pacers is unacceptable. | Now a letter to Northern's management from northern political leaders says the retention of Pacers is unacceptable. |
| They say reducing fares on the affected routes is the very least that could be done and want a meeting with Northern Rail within a week to secure a compensation agreement. | They say reducing fares on the affected routes is the very least that could be done and want a meeting with Northern Rail within a week to secure a compensation agreement. |
| A Northern spokesman said: "As a result of further delays in the construction and delivery of our new trains from manufacturer CAF, a small number of Pacer units will need to be retained for a short period of time in 2020 to deliver the planned daily timetable with the right capacity for our customers. | A Northern spokesman said: "As a result of further delays in the construction and delivery of our new trains from manufacturer CAF, a small number of Pacer units will need to be retained for a short period of time in 2020 to deliver the planned daily timetable with the right capacity for our customers. |
| "This situation is not unique to Northern. | "This situation is not unique to Northern. |
| "From today we will have 29 of our 101 new trains in service for customers and a further 27 new trains are in final testing or being used for driver training. | "From today we will have 29 of our 101 new trains in service for customers and a further 27 new trains are in final testing or being used for driver training. |
| "The introduction of new trains from July meant the first Pacer was retired in August, with the majority of Pacers still planned to be removed by the end of this year. | "The introduction of new trains from July meant the first Pacer was retired in August, with the majority of Pacers still planned to be removed by the end of this year. |
| "We agree the North deserves the best possible rail service and are working hard to improve performance and reliability for customers." | "We agree the North deserves the best possible rail service and are working hard to improve performance and reliability for customers." |
| There were calls for Northern to be stripped of its franchise when "carnage" followed the introduction of new timetables in May 2018. | There were calls for Northern to be stripped of its franchise when "carnage" followed the introduction of new timetables in May 2018. |
| Its franchises cover the North West, Yorkshire, parts of Derbyshire, and the North East. | Its franchises cover the North West, Yorkshire, parts of Derbyshire, and the North East. |
| What's your experience of Pacer trains? | What's your experience of Pacer trains? |
| Use the tool below to tell us or ask a question about the story and we could be in touch. | Use the tool below to tell us or ask a question about the story and we could be in touch. |