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Brexit: Boris Johnson's bill in limbo as Labour could back general election – live news Brexit: Boris Johnson's bill in limbo as Labour could back general election – live news
(32 minutes later)
Another angry exchange, this time with Sylvia Hermon, independent unionist MP. Asks Smith what in deal guarantees Belfast/GFA won't be undermined. He points to article 2 of protocol. "Exactly," replies Hermon. "Can you explain why the PM could not remember or recall the details"
When I asked about this on Saturday. Did Boris Johnson not know the details of his own deal? "This was deeply unhelpful to the unionist community who needed reassurances at that stage not now.
Guardian Brexit correspondent, Lisa O’Carroll, is following the Northern Ireland select committee.
Smith asked by Labour MP Conor McGinn would he like to "say sorry to unionists for making a promise you couldn't keep". Smith says: He'd like to say "this has no impact on the constitution of NI". "It has no impact on the workings of the assembly"
Ian Paisley." I have to go out and tell businesses in my community I don’t know what you have to do to carry out £18bn worth of trade with our country, not a foreign country.. I do not know what you will be charged and you want me to vote for this? "You can’t be serious."
Paisley lets rip at Tories. Asks Smith bluntly what county he lives in. Smith: I like in N Yorkshire and LondonPaisley If you had to move goods from N Yorkshire to Lon and have to fill in a form, you’d fill pretty aggrieved ..We are in the same country, it is disgraceful
The Northern Ireland secretary Julian Smith is giving evidence at the Northern Ireland affairs committee.
He said the government would be doing anything they could make any checks on goods moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK as “reduced and limited as possible”.
Smith said we now have a deal where Northern Ireland is out of the European Union.
NI Secretary Julian Smith says checks for goods between NI and GB post-Brexit will be “minimal” but he can’t say whether an entirely new IT system will be needed to enforce them.
Julian Smith - who was said to be on resignation watch after Amber Rudd left government - tells the NI committee that “no deal is a very, very bad idea for Northern Ireland” and his priority has been avoiding it
A reminder of what we have to look forward to in the commons today.A reminder of what we have to look forward to in the commons today.
Proceedings kick off with questions to the cabinet office minister Michael Gove at 11.30am, before prime minister’s questions at midday.Proceedings kick off with questions to the cabinet office minister Michael Gove at 11.30am, before prime minister’s questions at midday.
Since the progress of the withdrawal agreement bill has been paused, the queen’s speech is back on the agenda. MPs will debate it this afternoon, with a special focus on the NHS.Since the progress of the withdrawal agreement bill has been paused, the queen’s speech is back on the agenda. MPs will debate it this afternoon, with a special focus on the NHS.
From the former chancellor –From the former chancellor –
I believe in delivering Brexit. But I also believe in Parliamentary scrutiny. That’s why I voted for the Brexit bill to progress to the next stage, but against No10’s plan to rush it through at breakneck speed. Now’s the time for cool heads, to calmly consider the Bill.I believe in delivering Brexit. But I also believe in Parliamentary scrutiny. That’s why I voted for the Brexit bill to progress to the next stage, but against No10’s plan to rush it through at breakneck speed. Now’s the time for cool heads, to calmly consider the Bill.
Good point here from the Guardian’s diplomatic editor Patrick Wintour. Speaker John Bercow said he would stand down by 31 October.Good point here from the Guardian’s diplomatic editor Patrick Wintour. Speaker John Bercow said he would stand down by 31 October.
Is Bercow standing down as Speaker do or die on 31st October ? Could there be a technical extension on the basis this is "no time for a novice" ?Is Bercow standing down as Speaker do or die on 31st October ? Could there be a technical extension on the basis this is "no time for a novice" ?
Former Conservative deputy prime minister Michael Heseltine has been speaking to Sky News.Former Conservative deputy prime minister Michael Heseltine has been speaking to Sky News.
Asked whether he thought the Tories would win an election, he said: “No, I don’t.”Asked whether he thought the Tories would win an election, he said: “No, I don’t.”
The issue is can the Brexit aspect of the Tory party peel off enough Labour votes, enough Labour marginal constituencies, to counter the number that the Tories are going to lose.The issue is can the Brexit aspect of the Tory party peel off enough Labour votes, enough Labour marginal constituencies, to counter the number that the Tories are going to lose.
They are going to lose seats in Scotland and seats to the Lib Dems. I think they have alienated the Irish to such an extent that they won’t come back and support them, so you can see quite clearly where the Tories are going to lose seats. And I know where they think they can win Labour seats, but when it comes to it that’s a pretty big gamble.They are going to lose seats in Scotland and seats to the Lib Dems. I think they have alienated the Irish to such an extent that they won’t come back and support them, so you can see quite clearly where the Tories are going to lose seats. And I know where they think they can win Labour seats, but when it comes to it that’s a pretty big gamble.
My own guess is that a general election will be a re-run of what we have today – another period of uncertainty.My own guess is that a general election will be a re-run of what we have today – another period of uncertainty.
He said an election might put Johnson back in No 10, but without a majority.He said an election might put Johnson back in No 10, but without a majority.
Here are the full Burgon quotes from Sky News –Here are the full Burgon quotes from Sky News –
I’d like to see an election before Christmas. I want to get Boris Johnson and his Thatcherite mates out of Downing Street as soon as possible. So as soon as the EU has agreed that extension, so that Boris Johnson cannot push us through a no-deal without a mandate to do so, then we want a general election.I’d like to see an election before Christmas. I want to get Boris Johnson and his Thatcherite mates out of Downing Street as soon as possible. So as soon as the EU has agreed that extension, so that Boris Johnson cannot push us through a no-deal without a mandate to do so, then we want a general election.
Not only to get Brexit sorted by under a Labour government putting it to a public vote between a credible leave option and remain, but also sorting out all the other crises that the Tories have caused in the last nine years in government, whether it be housing, jobs, public services or austerity.Not only to get Brexit sorted by under a Labour government putting it to a public vote between a credible leave option and remain, but also sorting out all the other crises that the Tories have caused in the last nine years in government, whether it be housing, jobs, public services or austerity.
Former Conservative and now independent MP Ken Clarke has told BBC News that the narrative on last night’s debate has been spun by “these strange people that Boris has put in Downing Street” (aka Dominic Cummings).Former Conservative and now independent MP Ken Clarke has told BBC News that the narrative on last night’s debate has been spun by “these strange people that Boris has put in Downing Street” (aka Dominic Cummings).
He said parliament voted by a clear majority in favour of leaving the European Union with a deal. “The only thing that was killed off was the idea that it had to be on halloween,” he said.He said parliament voted by a clear majority in favour of leaving the European Union with a deal. “The only thing that was killed off was the idea that it had to be on halloween,” he said.
It’s always been a mystery to me why that date has been given a sacred significance. It’s a completely unimportant date. It was plucked out of the air last time the eurosceptics caused delay and stopped us leaving twice earlier this year and it has no significance.It’s always been a mystery to me why that date has been given a sacred significance. It’s a completely unimportant date. It was plucked out of the air last time the eurosceptics caused delay and stopped us leaving twice earlier this year and it has no significance.
Clarke said that even ministers were still discovering yesterday what the deal in its present form actually means. He said the Brexit secretary found out yesterday that, as it stands, the deal requires customs documents for all goods that pass between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.Clarke said that even ministers were still discovering yesterday what the deal in its present form actually means. He said the Brexit secretary found out yesterday that, as it stands, the deal requires customs documents for all goods that pass between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
“Things like that have got to be sorted out,” he said. “Parliament is not defying the people, it is just insisting that we have something that is sensible and works and is practical.”“Things like that have got to be sorted out,” he said. “Parliament is not defying the people, it is just insisting that we have something that is sensible and works and is practical.”
Asked about the idea that “parliament is broken”, Clarke says: “This bloke in Downing Street (Cummings) keeps saying that. Even Boris has not said that ... The government has just got the second reading of its bill.”Asked about the idea that “parliament is broken”, Clarke says: “This bloke in Downing Street (Cummings) keeps saying that. Even Boris has not said that ... The government has just got the second reading of its bill.”
Richard Burgon has been clear about Labour’s position when speaking to Sky news.Richard Burgon has been clear about Labour’s position when speaking to Sky news.
Labour’s @RichardBurgon VERY clear with @KayBurley “I would like to see an election before Christmas to get Boris and his Thatcherite mates out of Downing st. As soon as the EU has agreed an extension we will support a general election” Says ignore the polls “we will win”Labour’s @RichardBurgon VERY clear with @KayBurley “I would like to see an election before Christmas to get Boris and his Thatcherite mates out of Downing st. As soon as the EU has agreed an extension we will support a general election” Says ignore the polls “we will win”
The Lord chancellor and justice secretary Robert Buckland has been speaking to Sky news. Asked why the government wouldn’t just allow parliament to debate the withdrawal agreement bill for a bit, he says that the EU chose the 31 October deadline date and that we should respect that. “We’re not going to give up and walk away and pretend that this is too difficult,” he said.The Lord chancellor and justice secretary Robert Buckland has been speaking to Sky news. Asked why the government wouldn’t just allow parliament to debate the withdrawal agreement bill for a bit, he says that the EU chose the 31 October deadline date and that we should respect that. “We’re not going to give up and walk away and pretend that this is too difficult,” he said.
.@KayBurley: "An election before Christmas?" Lord chancellor and justice secretary @RobertBuckland: "If that's the only way of resolving this (#Brexit deadlock), than yes, bring it on."Watch #KayBurley at #Breakfast: https://t.co/cMHO7fsDYJ pic.twitter.com/4cZ84TbNRG.@KayBurley: "An election before Christmas?" Lord chancellor and justice secretary @RobertBuckland: "If that's the only way of resolving this (#Brexit deadlock), than yes, bring it on."Watch #KayBurley at #Breakfast: https://t.co/cMHO7fsDYJ pic.twitter.com/4cZ84TbNRG
Labour’s justice secretary Richard Burgon has been speaking to the BBC. He said more time was needed for the government and the opposition to discuss a sensible way forward.
He refused to put an exact number of days on how long was needed to examine a withdrawal agreement bill, saying it didn’t make a difference to people if it was debated for two or two and a half weeks.
Burgon said it was the government who is allowing the matter to drag on –
One of the reasons it’s dragging on is because the government is putting a stop to the progression of the bill. The second reason was passed in parliament – though we voted against it – but the government isn’t proceeding with it at the moment. They could be. So actually it’s the government who are behaving in a strange way, not the other political parties. But we need to get this sorted.
Burgon dodged the question of whether Labour would back an election if the EU granted the UK an extension.
This is from ITV’s political correspondent –
NEW: Ken Clarke says if the PM presents a one line bill calling for an election (remember he needs a way round that Fixed Term Parliaments Act), then MPs will amend it. For example, to reduce the age of voting to 16. Snap election might not be so easy for PM after all.
Former attorney general Dominic Grieve has been speaking on Sky news.
Dominic Grieve tells @KayBurley the “sensible thing” for the PM to do would be a longer timetable for the bill as he has a majority in principle. But he suspects the PM is trying to ”bulldoze” it through because he doesn’t want MPs to scrutinise the detail
Grieve baits the Brexiteers saying extending the transition period from - “in which we are entirely subservient” from end of 2020 to 2022 would be worse than remaining, and that they have a point
Grieve - who wants a second referendum says - “there is still opportunity there” but he doesn’t want to exaggerate the chances
Grieve said that the fixed-term parliaments act 2011 – which makes it harder for a prime minister to call a general election at a time that is convenient for them – was a terrible piece of legislation, which he regrets.
Former Tory culture secretary John Whittingdale, appearing on Sky just now, said he agreed with Grieve on the fixed-term parliaments act. He said that the 31 October deadline would probably be missed.
I think Boris has pulled off an extraordinary achievement. Not only did he manage to get the EU to reopen the deal and make the changes necessary for people like me to support it, he then managed to get it through the House of Commons.
Stephen Kinnock from Labour said that while he was open to voting for a deal, he couldn’t vote for this one which “would make a bonfire of workers rights, environmental standards and consumer protection”.
He said that the prime minister should sit down with Corbyn and agree a sensible programme motion so the bill could be scrutinised and amended.
“I have huge respect for colleagues who too the decision to vote last night in the way that they did. It simply wasn’t a deal I could support,” he said.
David Lidington, a former Tory Europe minister, was just on the BBC’s Today programme. He said that the EU would want to ensure that they don’t get blamed for a no-deal Brexit, so will offer an extension.
He said the majority for the withdrawal agreement bill was bigger than most people had expected and that the government should propose a longer timetable to try and get it through parliament again.
“I see no way that the October 31st deadline can be met anyway now the bill has been paused in the commons,” he said.
I think the fear in Downing street is partly of rafts of amendments to the bill, but also about the difficulty of governing without a majority ... There are broader questions that underly the disputes about the timings of the Brexit bill
Lidington said the most likely timing for an election was the end of November or early December, though he warned that the public would not welcome an election in the run-up to Christmas.
It’s Frances Perraudin here now, taking over from Kate Lyons. You can contact me on @fperraudin or below the line.
An unpleasant start to the day for Lisa Nandy, Labour MP for Wigan.
Morning! pic.twitter.com/MJOtjDY2u9
Peter Walker has this extremely helpful Q&A in which he answers some key questions. The full article is here and a selection of answers are below:
So what just happened?
In brief: the bill seeking to put into law Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal was passed by MPs on its second reading, the initial opportunity that MPs have to vote on a bill. It passed by 329 votes to 299, the first time the Commons has formally approved a Brexit plan. However, only 20 minutes later, MPs rejected the government’s so-called programme motion, which set out the accelerated timetable for the bill, by 308 votes in favour to 322 against.
So what happens now?
Under a backbench-instigated law intended to ward off a no-deal Brexit, Johnson wrote to the EU on Saturday to formally request a delay to departure until 31 January, despite the PM not wanting this to happen. Responding in the Commons, Johnson said he would “pause this legislation” and await information from the EU on a possible delay. In the interim, he said, no-deal preparations would be ramped up. For now, the bill is “in limbo”, Speaker John Bercow said, using what he said was the technical term.
Is the bill getting pulled?
Downing Street had strongly hinted this would be the response to losing the programme motion. However, this seems to have been a lever to pressure MPs into backing the motion. Speaking during the debate ahead of the votes, Johnson pledged he would pull the bill and seek an election in the event of a delay until January or longer. But he did not promise to do this in any circumstances, holding open the possibility of a brief delay being acceptable. After the vote, Johnson was similarly equivocal, saying: “One way or another, we will leave the EU with this deal.”
Does all this make a general election more likely?
Probably. If the EU insists on a lengthy delay, which is put in place, Johnson could push for an election. Crucially, if an imminent no-deal Brexit was now averted, Labour would be expected to now back an election, making it happen. However, for all his protestations against a longer delay, the 30-vote majority for his Brexit deal could tempt Johnson into trying to push the bill through parliament before an election, allowing him to stand as the prime minister who delivered departure.
What will MPs do for the rest of this week?
On Wednesday and Thursday, when they should have been finishing off the stages of the WAB, they will instead return to debating the Queen’s speech. Remember that? The government’s planned legislative programme was presented on Monday last week, but the scheduled five-day debate was suspended for the WAB debate. It now comes back.
What just happened in the Commons – and what's next for Brexit?
But it’s hard to beat the Sun’s front page today.
Tomorrow's front page: MPs finally backed Boris Johnson's #Brexit deal - then wrecked it within minutes by rejecting his three-day timetable to push it through Parliament https://t.co/HDF8fUegpy pic.twitter.com/XSehkDKrJ1
Most of today’s papers – whose fronts pages we round up here – blame Parliament for the latest sting in the Brexit tale. Here is a selection:
The Guardian front page, Wednesday 23 October 2019: Parliament puts brakes on Johnson's race for Brexit pic.twitter.com/vl3sFN8Mtg
Tomorrow's front page: PM's Brexit horror #TomorrowsPapersToday https://t.co/Trnv17lX9k pic.twitter.com/NDeqY8Uxb2
Wednesday's @DailyMailUK #MailFrontPages pic.twitter.com/yRzZHAM86q
Wednesday's front page: Boris Johnson's Halloween Brexit in tatters #tomorrowspaperstoday #skypapers #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/YUdbIWlBbv
This from the Brexit coordinator for the European Parliament
You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage pic.twitter.com/Cob2wPmghP
Hello and welcome to the politics blog, bringing you the latest out of Westminster and Brussels in the wake of Tuesday night’s partial victory in the Commons for Boris Johnson.
Here’s a very brief summary of events to get you started:
Donald Tusk has said he will recommend the EU 27 leaders accept Johnson’s somewhat reluctant request for a Brexit extension. He made the request as soon as MPs rejected the PM’s three-day timetable to push through his deal.
Downing Street will have to decide whether to carry through with the PM’s threat to abandon the bill and call for a general election in the event of a lengthy extension. Here is a video of his speech. Note: he dropped the threat after losing the second vote, but No 10 is still making noises about it in the event of an extension until January.
However, an EU source said that if the bloc was to think again on the length of the extension then Johnson would need to make a second formal request for a shorter delay.
Jeremy Corbyn has urged the government to agree to an alternative timetable, to allow the legislation to continue to be debated.
I’ll be gently steering us through these choppy news waters during the early hours before handing over to my esteemed and highly entertaining colleagues. As always, you can get in touch via email (kate.lyons@theguardian.com) or Twitter.
Thanks for reading along, let’s do this.