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| Labor calls for police investigation into Angus Taylor – politics live | Labor calls for police investigation into Angus Taylor – politics live |
| (32 minutes later) | |
| The House is adjourned until 25 November. | |
| The October Agriculture Ministers’ Forum is being held tomorrow in Melbourne. | |
| Penny Wong is asking Marise Payne over what our climate strategy is from a foreign affairs point of view, pointing out that she has been asking this same question since 2016 and is yet to get an answer. | |
| She looks like she has a headache which is sitting just behind her eyes and slowly taking over her entire head, and I have to say – I can relate. | |
| On Paul Karp’s story about the sexuality questions dumped from the census, Katie Allen says: | On Paul Karp’s story about the sexuality questions dumped from the census, Katie Allen says: |
| I will be writing to the chief statistician, because the decision will be made next year in 2020. | I will be writing to the chief statistician, because the decision will be made next year in 2020. |
| So, a test case isn’t [what will necessary end in the final census] ... I’m a data scientist. | So, a test case isn’t [what will necessary end in the final census] ... I’m a data scientist. |
| So, this is what I live and breathe. It is about rolling out a test census, but that doesn’t mean that’s the final word on what will be in there in 2020. I personally will be writing to the chief statistician, because I do believe we need to have questions such as those being discussed. | So, this is what I live and breathe. It is about rolling out a test census, but that doesn’t mean that’s the final word on what will be in there in 2020. I personally will be writing to the chief statistician, because I do believe we need to have questions such as those being discussed. |
| I haven’t seen the actual content of the questions. | I haven’t seen the actual content of the questions. |
| It is important that we get the questions right, because we know the LGBTI communities are more vulnerable with regards to some aspects of healthcare provision, particularly some aspects of mental health care. | It is important that we get the questions right, because we know the LGBTI communities are more vulnerable with regards to some aspects of healthcare provision, particularly some aspects of mental health care. |
| With a large and vibrant community – LGBTI community – in their transport, Higgins, I will be writing to talk about what are the possibilities of adding the questions in next year. | With a large and vibrant community – LGBTI community – in their transport, Higgins, I will be writing to talk about what are the possibilities of adding the questions in next year. |
| Liberal MP Katie Allen has read her talking points on Angus Taylor and the documents and no more. | Liberal MP Katie Allen has read her talking points on Angus Taylor and the documents and no more. |
| Patricia Karvelas has the backbencher on Afternoon Briefing and asks: | Patricia Karvelas has the backbencher on Afternoon Briefing and asks: |
| Angus Taylor was grilled in question time today. This was all relating to accusations of forged documents, accusations that he has rejected as bizarre. It led to the lord mayor of Sydney, Clover Moore, demanding answers and now we know Labor is writing to NSW Police in relation to this. I will start with you, Katie Allen. How can this be the case? The council says it is quite clear the metadata makes it quite clear that the document said something else and it has been doctored. Doesn’t the minister and the government need to provide an answer on how this document ended up being published that was so inaccurate? | Angus Taylor was grilled in question time today. This was all relating to accusations of forged documents, accusations that he has rejected as bizarre. It led to the lord mayor of Sydney, Clover Moore, demanding answers and now we know Labor is writing to NSW Police in relation to this. I will start with you, Katie Allen. How can this be the case? The council says it is quite clear the metadata makes it quite clear that the document said something else and it has been doctored. Doesn’t the minister and the government need to provide an answer on how this document ended up being published that was so inaccurate? |
| KA: | KA: |
| Well, Patricia, I think you saw in question time today that the minister actually gave a fulsome response. He said he thinks it’s a ridiculous question and that he was quite comfortable with what he had to say. So, I think I would leave it there. I have just actually literally come from question time. As far as I’m concerned, the minister has responded in question time. | Well, Patricia, I think you saw in question time today that the minister actually gave a fulsome response. He said he thinks it’s a ridiculous question and that he was quite comfortable with what he had to say. So, I think I would leave it there. I have just actually literally come from question time. As far as I’m concerned, the minister has responded in question time. |
| PK: I know it’s not an allegation about you, but actually I don’t know if he has answered the questions, Katie Allen. The document he refers to was clearly not on the website. Something changed. Isn’t it just common sense to find out why it changed? We don’t know why, but it was changed. | PK: I know it’s not an allegation about you, but actually I don’t know if he has answered the questions, Katie Allen. The document he refers to was clearly not on the website. Something changed. Isn’t it just common sense to find out why it changed? We don’t know why, but it was changed. |
| KA: | KA: |
| To be fair, Patricia, I have literally come from question time. That is the first I’ve heard of it. I would much prefer the listeners to be given a proper answer from me about what the situation is. It is very hard when information is evolving as you are in question time, you come to question time to this studio – I do understand your concerns. I am sure the minister will provide any further [assurances]. But I don’t have anymore for you at this point in time ... he was fulsome in his responses. | To be fair, Patricia, I have literally come from question time. That is the first I’ve heard of it. I would much prefer the listeners to be given a proper answer from me about what the situation is. It is very hard when information is evolving as you are in question time, you come to question time to this studio – I do understand your concerns. I am sure the minister will provide any further [assurances]. But I don’t have anymore for you at this point in time ... he was fulsome in his responses. |
| PK: I don’t know if he was “fulsome”, because there are more questions, and this now ... | PK: I don’t know if he was “fulsome”, because there are more questions, and this now ... |
| KA: | KA: |
| I am sure they will come to light as we go forward. | I am sure they will come to light as we go forward. |
| PK: Do you think he should provide a fuller answer? That’s the real question. | PK: Do you think he should provide a fuller answer? That’s the real question. |
| KA: | KA: |
| Well, it is hard to answer questions when you don’t have the full information. I’m an evidence-based person. I haven’t seen the reports for myself. The first I hear of it was in question time. I will be interested to see how the story evolves. | Well, it is hard to answer questions when you don’t have the full information. I’m an evidence-based person. I haven’t seen the reports for myself. The first I hear of it was in question time. I will be interested to see how the story evolves. |
| The 2020 sitting calendar is out (it is not yet approved, but most likely will be) | The 2020 sitting calendar is out (it is not yet approved, but most likely will be) |
| Leader of the House @cporterwa has just tabled the proposed sitting pattern for 2020. The House has agreed to the program, but it must also be agreed to by @AuSenate. pic.twitter.com/KSEttoYjkM | Leader of the House @cporterwa has just tabled the proposed sitting pattern for 2020. The House has agreed to the program, but it must also be agreed to by @AuSenate. pic.twitter.com/KSEttoYjkM |
| And then there is also: | And then there is also: |
| 254 Using false document | 254 Using false document |
| A person who uses a false document, knowing that it is false, with the intention of — | A person who uses a false document, knowing that it is false, with the intention of — |
| (a) inducing some person to accept it as genuine; and | (a) inducing some person to accept it as genuine; and |
| (b) because of its being accepted as genuine — | (b) because of its being accepted as genuine — |
| (i) obtaining any property belonging to another; or | (i) obtaining any property belonging to another; or |
| (ii) obtaining any financial advantage or causing any financial disadvantage; or | (ii) obtaining any financial advantage or causing any financial disadvantage; or |
| (iii) influencing the exercise of a public duty; | (iii) influencing the exercise of a public duty; |
| is guilty of an offence. | is guilty of an offence. |
| Maximum penalty — imprisonment for 10 years. | Maximum penalty — imprisonment for 10 years. |
| 316 Concealing serious indictable offence | 316 Concealing serious indictable offence |
| (1) An adult – | (1) An adult – |
| (a) who knows or believes that a serious indictable offence has been committed by another person, and | (a) who knows or believes that a serious indictable offence has been committed by another person, and |
| (b) who knows or believes that he or she has information that might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension of the offender or the prosecution or conviction of the offender for that offence, and | (b) who knows or believes that he or she has information that might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension of the offender or the prosecution or conviction of the offender for that offence, and |
| (c) who fails without reasonable excuse to bring that information to the attention of a member of the NSW Police Force or other appropriate authority, | (c) who fails without reasonable excuse to bring that information to the attention of a member of the NSW Police Force or other appropriate authority, |
| is guilty of an offence. | is guilty of an offence. |
| Maximum penalty – imprisonment for: | Maximum penalty – imprisonment for: |
| (a) 2 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is not more than 10 years imprisonment; or | (a) 2 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is not more than 10 years imprisonment; or |
| (b) 3 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 10 years imprisonment but not more than 20 years imprisonment; or | (b) 3 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 10 years imprisonment but not more than 20 years imprisonment; or |
| (c) 5 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 20 years imprisonment. | (c) 5 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 20 years imprisonment. |
| (2) A person who solicits, accepts or agrees to accept any benefit for the person or any other person in consideration for doing anything that would be an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of an offence. | (2) A person who solicits, accepts or agrees to accept any benefit for the person or any other person in consideration for doing anything that would be an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of an offence. |
| Maximum penalty – imprisonment for: | Maximum penalty – imprisonment for: |
| (a) 5 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is not more than 10 years imprisonment; or | (a) 5 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is not more than 10 years imprisonment; or |
| (b) 6 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 10 years imprisonment but not more than 20 years imprisonment; or | (b) 6 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 10 years imprisonment but not more than 20 years imprisonment; or |
| (c) 7 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 20 years imprisonment. | (c) 7 years – if the maximum penalty for the serious indictable offence is more than 20 years imprisonment. |
| That was the main section referred to in question time, but Labor is also raising: | That was the main section referred to in question time, but Labor is also raising: |
| 249O Public duty — meaning | 249O Public duty — meaning |
| For the purposes of this part, a public duty means a power, authority, duty or function — | For the purposes of this part, a public duty means a power, authority, duty or function — |
| (a) that is conferred on a person as the holder of a public office; or | (a) that is conferred on a person as the holder of a public office; or |
| (b) that a person holds himself or herself out as having as the holder of a public office. | (b) that a person holds himself or herself out as having as the holder of a public office. |
| 253 Forgery — making false document | 253 Forgery — making false document |
| A person who makes a false document with the intention that the person or another will use it — | A person who makes a false document with the intention that the person or another will use it — |
| (a) to induce some person to accept it as genuine; and | (a) to induce some person to accept it as genuine; and |
| (b) because of its being accepted as genuine — | (b) because of its being accepted as genuine — |
| (i) to obtain any property belonging to another; or | (i) to obtain any property belonging to another; or |
| (ii) to obtain any financial advantage or cause any financial disadvantage; or | (ii) to obtain any financial advantage or cause any financial disadvantage; or |
| (iii) to influence the exercise of a public duty; | (iii) to influence the exercise of a public duty; |
| is guilty of the offence of forgery. | is guilty of the offence of forgery. |
| Maximum penalty — imprisonment for 10 years. | Maximum penalty — imprisonment for 10 years. |
| Here is the part of the New South Wales crime act that Labor is talking about making a referral under | Here is the part of the New South Wales crime act that Labor is talking about making a referral under |
| CRIMES ACT 1900 – SECT 253 | CRIMES ACT 1900 – SECT 253 |
| Forgery – making false document | Forgery – making false document |
| A person who makes a false document with the intention that the person or another will use it – | A person who makes a false document with the intention that the person or another will use it – |
| (a) to induce some person to accept it as genuine; and | (a) to induce some person to accept it as genuine; and |
| (b) because of its being accepted as genuine – | (b) because of its being accepted as genuine – |
| is guilty of the offence of forgery. | is guilty of the offence of forgery. |
| So to recap this afternoon: | So to recap this afternoon: |
| Brian Houston “genuinely” doesn’t know if he was on a list put forward by Scott Morrison’s office to attend the White House state dinner, despite having originally calling the Wall Street Journal story incorrect. He says he hasn’t spoken to the prime minister about it. | Brian Houston “genuinely” doesn’t know if he was on a list put forward by Scott Morrison’s office to attend the White House state dinner, despite having originally calling the Wall Street Journal story incorrect. He says he hasn’t spoken to the prime minister about it. |
| Labor will be referring the Angus Taylor document matter to the NSW police in the next 24 hours, if the government doesn’t do it. | Labor will be referring the Angus Taylor document matter to the NSW police in the next 24 hours, if the government doesn’t do it. |
| The joint parliamentary committee into intelligence and security has told the government, for the first time since 2002, it needs to re-draft a bill. | The joint parliamentary committee into intelligence and security has told the government, for the first time since 2002, it needs to re-draft a bill. |
| A bit more from pastor Brian Houston on 2GB Radio. | A bit more from pastor Brian Houston on 2GB Radio. |
| Houston said he was contacted by the Wall Street Journal three weeks before the state dinner. He was “confused” by the suggestion he may have been invited and said “no, it’s incorrect”. | Houston said he was contacted by the Wall Street Journal three weeks before the state dinner. He was “confused” by the suggestion he may have been invited and said “no, it’s incorrect”. |
| But now Houston says he “genuinely [doesn’t] know” if Scott Morrison tried to get him invited. He agreed that – as far as he knows – Morrison has never ruled out that the story is true. | But now Houston says he “genuinely [doesn’t] know” if Scott Morrison tried to get him invited. He agreed that – as far as he knows – Morrison has never ruled out that the story is true. |
| Houston: “I just didn’t believe it. But then I guess the fact I didn’t know anything about it doesn’t say anything. It’s a question for Scott Morrison. I haven’t talked to him about it – before or since the state dinner.” | Houston: “I just didn’t believe it. But then I guess the fact I didn’t know anything about it doesn’t say anything. It’s a question for Scott Morrison. I haven’t talked to him about it – before or since the state dinner.” |
| Asked why he hadn’t asked Morrison since the story broke – even if just out of curiosity – Houston responded that he figured Morrison had “a whole lot more important things” to deal with, such as the drought. | Asked why he hadn’t asked Morrison since the story broke – even if just out of curiosity – Houston responded that he figured Morrison had “a whole lot more important things” to deal with, such as the drought. |
| So by his own version of events: Houston has gone on a journey from being sure the story wasn’t true, to not so sure, but he hasn’t spoken to the PM about it. | So by his own version of events: Houston has gone on a journey from being sure the story wasn’t true, to not so sure, but he hasn’t spoken to the PM about it. |
| Question: You said that in the absence of the prime minister or Taylor referring this to the NSW police that Labor would be writing, so does this mean you are writing or you’re going to give the government more time to refer themselves? | Question: You said that in the absence of the prime minister or Taylor referring this to the NSW police that Labor would be writing, so does this mean you are writing or you’re going to give the government more time to refer themselves? |
| Mark Butler: | Mark Butler: |
| We thought, particularly since the principle was set out at the beginning of the week that no one is above the law, that when the evidence was laid out in the way we try to do in question time and a number of media organisations have done in the last 24 hours, that he promised he would put that principle into action to practise and show and demonstrate that even one of his cabinet ministers would be subject to the law under his doctrine, he is all talk and no action. | We thought, particularly since the principle was set out at the beginning of the week that no one is above the law, that when the evidence was laid out in the way we try to do in question time and a number of media organisations have done in the last 24 hours, that he promised he would put that principle into action to practise and show and demonstrate that even one of his cabinet ministers would be subject to the law under his doctrine, he is all talk and no action. |
| The ABC cuts away – but Labor will be writing to the NSW police in the next 24 hours. | The ABC cuts away – but Labor will be writing to the NSW police in the next 24 hours. |
| Question: Do you think or are you suggesting he [Angus Taylor] forged it himself? | Question: Do you think or are you suggesting he [Angus Taylor] forged it himself? |
| Mark Burler: | Mark Burler: |
| We are making no suggestion at the moment, we gave him many opportunities to clarify and all he would do was deny the clearly obvious thing which is the document is a forgery. | We are making no suggestion at the moment, we gave him many opportunities to clarify and all he would do was deny the clearly obvious thing which is the document is a forgery. |
| It is a very serious forgery because it is a document made with the intent to exercise the operation of a public duty, the exercise of a public duty by a publicly elected official. | It is a very serious forgery because it is a document made with the intent to exercise the operation of a public duty, the exercise of a public duty by a publicly elected official. |
| Angus Taylor will not say whether or not it was made by him or his office or provided by someone else to him. | Angus Taylor will not say whether or not it was made by him or his office or provided by someone else to him. |
| Instead, he tries to pretend this is not a forged document when all the evidence is to the contrary. | Instead, he tries to pretend this is not a forged document when all the evidence is to the contrary. |
| Mark Butler is now holding a press conference on Angus Taylor: | Mark Butler is now holding a press conference on Angus Taylor: |
| Today, the city of Sydney has released metadata log information that confirms the actual report which was uploaded almost 12 months ago, has not been altered once on the City of Sydney Council’s website since that time. It is quite clear that Angus Taylor was working with a different document. | Today, the city of Sydney has released metadata log information that confirms the actual report which was uploaded almost 12 months ago, has not been altered once on the City of Sydney Council’s website since that time. It is quite clear that Angus Taylor was working with a different document. |
| The document he provided the Daily Telegraph has different formatting, different spacing and different font as well as obviously very different numbers. The New South Wales crimes act provides that the making of a forged document that is intended to influence the exercise of a public duty by a publicly elected official, like the lord mayor of Sydney, is a serious indictable offence punishable by up to 10 years in prison. | The document he provided the Daily Telegraph has different formatting, different spacing and different font as well as obviously very different numbers. The New South Wales crimes act provides that the making of a forged document that is intended to influence the exercise of a public duty by a publicly elected official, like the lord mayor of Sydney, is a serious indictable offence punishable by up to 10 years in prison. |
| It is also clear that the NSW crimes act provides that a failure to make a report about such a document to the NSW police is also a criminal offence, punishable by up to two years in prison after a person becomes aware of the forgery. | It is also clear that the NSW crimes act provides that a failure to make a report about such a document to the NSW police is also a criminal offence, punishable by up to two years in prison after a person becomes aware of the forgery. |
| Now, the circumstances surrounding Minister Angus Taylor could not be clearer, could not be clearer. | Now, the circumstances surrounding Minister Angus Taylor could not be clearer, could not be clearer. |
| He refused today during question time to do what the City of Sydney has done and release metadata logs that back up his claim that he downloaded that document from the city of Sydney website. | He refused today during question time to do what the City of Sydney has done and release metadata logs that back up his claim that he downloaded that document from the city of Sydney website. |
| It is a claim that just does not stand up to scrutiny and for which he will not provide any evidence. | It is a claim that just does not stand up to scrutiny and for which he will not provide any evidence. |
| At the beginning of this week, the prime minister made it clear that no one was above the law. | At the beginning of this week, the prime minister made it clear that no one was above the law. |
| A very important statement, given there are a number of journalists in this building that are currently subject to prosecution for doing this job. | A very important statement, given there are a number of journalists in this building that are currently subject to prosecution for doing this job. |
| But the prime minister is sitting on his hands while this tailor-made scandal about Angus Taylor continues to unfold and get deeper and deeper. | But the prime minister is sitting on his hands while this tailor-made scandal about Angus Taylor continues to unfold and get deeper and deeper. |
| Today it is quite clear that Angus Taylor has refused or declined to make a report himself to the NSW police, the prime minister is clearly not intending to make a referral himself to the NSW police and in the absence of any action by this government to clear this up and ensure that the public has the right to know what has happened here, the Labor party, through the shadow attorney general will be writing to the NSW police, seeking an investigation about all the circumstances surrounding this matter. | Today it is quite clear that Angus Taylor has refused or declined to make a report himself to the NSW police, the prime minister is clearly not intending to make a referral himself to the NSW police and in the absence of any action by this government to clear this up and ensure that the public has the right to know what has happened here, the Labor party, through the shadow attorney general will be writing to the NSW police, seeking an investigation about all the circumstances surrounding this matter. |
| Brian Houston tells Ben Fordham he has not spoken to the prime minister about whether or not his name was put forward for the White House dinner, as he thinks he has “more important things” to worry about. | Brian Houston tells Ben Fordham he has not spoken to the prime minister about whether or not his name was put forward for the White House dinner, as he thinks he has “more important things” to worry about. |
| Brian Houston says it is “possible” that Scott Morrison’s office put his name forward, but he didn’t have any conversation with the prime minister about it and was “confused” when the Wall Street Journal reported the news, because he had not heard anything about it. | Brian Houston says it is “possible” that Scott Morrison’s office put his name forward, but he didn’t have any conversation with the prime minister about it and was “confused” when the Wall Street Journal reported the news, because he had not heard anything about it. |