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| Key Excerpts From William Taylor’s Testimony in the Impeachment Inquiry | |
| (1 day later) | |
| WASHINGTON — The House committees leading the impeachment inquiry released a transcript on Wednesday from a closed-door deposition of a figure central to the investigation as the proceedings move to a more public phase. The first public hearings are scheduled for next week. | WASHINGTON — The House committees leading the impeachment inquiry released a transcript on Wednesday from a closed-door deposition of a figure central to the investigation as the proceedings move to a more public phase. The first public hearings are scheduled for next week. |
| The witness testimony, from William B. Taylor Jr., the top American diplomat in Ukraine, provided one of the most vivid accounts about the actions at the heart of the inquiry. Much of that was detailed in his opening remarks on Oct. 22, including his explicit understanding that there was a quid pro quo linking military aid for Ukraine to investigating President Trump’s political rivals. The New York Times reporters read through his deposition, highlighting key parts and offering context and analysis. | The witness testimony, from William B. Taylor Jr., the top American diplomat in Ukraine, provided one of the most vivid accounts about the actions at the heart of the inquiry. Much of that was detailed in his opening remarks on Oct. 22, including his explicit understanding that there was a quid pro quo linking military aid for Ukraine to investigating President Trump’s political rivals. The New York Times reporters read through his deposition, highlighting key parts and offering context and analysis. |
| Page 260-261: “I think the origin of the idea to get President Zelensky to say out loud he’s going to investigate Burisma and 2016 election, I think the originator, the person who came up with that was Mr. Giuliani.” | Page 260-261: “I think the origin of the idea to get President Zelensky to say out loud he’s going to investigate Burisma and 2016 election, I think the originator, the person who came up with that was Mr. Giuliani.” |
| According to Mr. Taylor, it was Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, who devised the plan for Ukraine officials to publicly commit to beginning investigations. Under questioning, Mr. Taylor also made clear that Mr. Giuliani was representing the interests of Mr. Trump. — Lara Jakes | According to Mr. Taylor, it was Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, who devised the plan for Ukraine officials to publicly commit to beginning investigations. Under questioning, Mr. Taylor also made clear that Mr. Giuliani was representing the interests of Mr. Trump. — Lara Jakes |
| Page 209-210: “‘The nightmare’ is the scenario where President Zelensky goes out in public, makes an announcement that he’s going to investigate Burisma and the election in 2016, interference in 2016 election, maybe among other things. He might put that in some series of investigations.” | Page 209-210: “‘The nightmare’ is the scenario where President Zelensky goes out in public, makes an announcement that he’s going to investigate Burisma and the election in 2016, interference in 2016 election, maybe among other things. He might put that in some series of investigations.” |
| “‘The nightmare was he would mention those two, take all the heat from that, get himself in big trouble in this country and probably in his country as well, and the security assistance would not be released. That was the nightmare. The Russians loving it. The Russians are paying attention. The Russians are paying attention to how much support the Americans are going to provide the Ukrainians.” | “‘The nightmare was he would mention those two, take all the heat from that, get himself in big trouble in this country and probably in his country as well, and the security assistance would not be released. That was the nightmare. The Russians loving it. The Russians are paying attention. The Russians are paying attention to how much support the Americans are going to provide the Ukrainians.” |
| By Mr. Taylor’s account, in early September, he believed the worst-case scenario of Mr. Zelensky publicly promising investigations into the Mr. Trump’s political rivals would be if Russia were to benefit from quaking relations between the United States and Ukraine. Mr. Taylor had used the term “nightmare” in text message to others, but investigators asked him for further explanation. He added that he previously told Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that he would defend America’s support of Ukraine, but if the policy changed, he would quit. Mr. Taylor has yet to resign.— Eileen Sullivan | By Mr. Taylor’s account, in early September, he believed the worst-case scenario of Mr. Zelensky publicly promising investigations into the Mr. Trump’s political rivals would be if Russia were to benefit from quaking relations between the United States and Ukraine. Mr. Taylor had used the term “nightmare” in text message to others, but investigators asked him for further explanation. He added that he previously told Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that he would defend America’s support of Ukraine, but if the policy changed, he would quit. Mr. Taylor has yet to resign.— Eileen Sullivan |
| Page 164: “When Ambassador Sondland raised investigations in the meeting, that triggered Ambassador Bolton’s antenna, political antenna, and he said, ‘we don’t do politics here.’ | Page 164: “When Ambassador Sondland raised investigations in the meeting, that triggered Ambassador Bolton’s antenna, political antenna, and he said, ‘we don’t do politics here.’ |
| Mr. Taylor recounted to impeachment investigators how John R. Bolton, Mr. Trump’s national security adviser at the time, suddenly ended a July 10 meeting with American and Ukrainian officials when Gordon D. Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, turned the discussion to investigations that Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani wanted the Ukrainians to pursue. Mr. Taylor said that he was not at the meeting, but he heard accounts from two people who were. At the time, Mr. Taylor was just weeks into his new job as the top diplomat in Ukraine, a position he hesitated to accept because of the circumstances around his predecessor’s removal.— Eileen Sullivan | Mr. Taylor recounted to impeachment investigators how John R. Bolton, Mr. Trump’s national security adviser at the time, suddenly ended a July 10 meeting with American and Ukrainian officials when Gordon D. Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, turned the discussion to investigations that Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani wanted the Ukrainians to pursue. Mr. Taylor said that he was not at the meeting, but he heard accounts from two people who were. At the time, Mr. Taylor was just weeks into his new job as the top diplomat in Ukraine, a position he hesitated to accept because of the circumstances around his predecessor’s removal.— Eileen Sullivan |
| Page 230: “He indicated that he was very sympathetic. I had known from earlier conversations with people that he was also trying with the two secretaries and the director of the C.I.A. to get this decision reversed. So he confirmed that and urged me to make my concerns known to the secretary again.” | Page 230: “He indicated that he was very sympathetic. I had known from earlier conversations with people that he was also trying with the two secretaries and the director of the C.I.A. to get this decision reversed. So he confirmed that and urged me to make my concerns known to the secretary again.” |
| Mr. Taylor’s recollection of his conversation with Mr. Bolton provides additional details about the circumstances under which Mr. Bolton stepped down less than two weeks later. In July, Mr. Bolton made clear that he was not on board with the shadow foreign policy campaign being pushed by Mr. Sondland and Mick Mulvaney, the president’s acting chief of staff. He also called Mr. Giuliani a “hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up.” Mr. Bolton and Mr. Pompeo had been feuding for months, so asking Mr. Taylor to directly appeal to Mr. Pompeo makes sense. | Mr. Taylor’s recollection of his conversation with Mr. Bolton provides additional details about the circumstances under which Mr. Bolton stepped down less than two weeks later. In July, Mr. Bolton made clear that he was not on board with the shadow foreign policy campaign being pushed by Mr. Sondland and Mick Mulvaney, the president’s acting chief of staff. He also called Mr. Giuliani a “hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up.” Mr. Bolton and Mr. Pompeo had been feuding for months, so asking Mr. Taylor to directly appeal to Mr. Pompeo makes sense. |
| Later in his testimony, Mr. Taylor rejected a suggestion that senior leaders at the State Department ignored his concerns about linking the American aid to a Ukraine investigation. | Later in his testimony, Mr. Taylor rejected a suggestion that senior leaders at the State Department ignored his concerns about linking the American aid to a Ukraine investigation. |
| “Based on the concerns and the cable, Secretary Pompeo went to the White House, probably on a couple of occasions, you know in trying to have these meetings, and attempted to get the decision changed,” Mr. Taylor said, according to Page 315 of the transcript.— Eileen Sullivan and Lara Jakes | “Based on the concerns and the cable, Secretary Pompeo went to the White House, probably on a couple of occasions, you know in trying to have these meetings, and attempted to get the decision changed,” Mr. Taylor said, according to Page 315 of the transcript.— Eileen Sullivan and Lara Jakes |
| Page 132-133: Taylor: “I think this was also about the time of the Greenland question, about purchasing Greenland, which took up a lot of energy in the N.S.C.” | Page 132-133: Taylor: “I think this was also about the time of the Greenland question, about purchasing Greenland, which took up a lot of energy in the N.S.C.” |
| Schiff: “Okay. That’s disturbing for a whole different reason.” | Schiff: “Okay. That’s disturbing for a whole different reason.” |
| Taylor: “Different story. Different story.” | Taylor: “Different story. Different story.” |
| Mr. Taylor briefly brings together two Trump administration controversies. Mr. Taylor told House investigators that Mr. Bolton was trying to get the hold on Ukraine aid removed and tried to organize a meeting with the C.I.A. director, Gina Haspel; Mr. Pompeo and the defense secretary, Mark T. Esper. One reason Mr. Taylor offered was that the National Security Council was focused on Mr. Trump’s desire to buy Greenland. The testimony suggests that not only was Mr. Trump serious about buying Greenland, which was known, but also that his national security staff was dedicating serious time to the matter.— Julian E. Barnes | Mr. Taylor briefly brings together two Trump administration controversies. Mr. Taylor told House investigators that Mr. Bolton was trying to get the hold on Ukraine aid removed and tried to organize a meeting with the C.I.A. director, Gina Haspel; Mr. Pompeo and the defense secretary, Mark T. Esper. One reason Mr. Taylor offered was that the National Security Council was focused on Mr. Trump’s desire to buy Greenland. The testimony suggests that not only was Mr. Trump serious about buying Greenland, which was known, but also that his national security staff was dedicating serious time to the matter.— Julian E. Barnes |
| Pages 49-54: “All to say that I was concerned that there was, I think I put it, a snake pit in Kyiv and a snake pit here, and I was not sure that I could usefully serve in that context.” | Pages 49-54: “All to say that I was concerned that there was, I think I put it, a snake pit in Kyiv and a snake pit here, and I was not sure that I could usefully serve in that context.” |
| “This was part of the one of the two snake pits, this is the Washington snake pit that I was concerned I would be stepping into if I were to accept the offer. So this made me less interested, this made me concerned, it troubled me that this is what was affecting U.S. policy towards Ukraine.” | “This was part of the one of the two snake pits, this is the Washington snake pit that I was concerned I would be stepping into if I were to accept the offer. So this made me less interested, this made me concerned, it troubled me that this is what was affecting U.S. policy towards Ukraine.” |
| Under questioning, Mr. Taylor told House investigators that he considered declining the offer to be the top diplomat in Ukraine in part after reading an article that described the efforts by Mr. Giuliani trying to pressure Ukraine’s government to investigate Mr. Trump’s political rivals. | Under questioning, Mr. Taylor told House investigators that he considered declining the offer to be the top diplomat in Ukraine in part after reading an article that described the efforts by Mr. Giuliani trying to pressure Ukraine’s government to investigate Mr. Trump’s political rivals. |
| Asked about the article, Mr. Taylor characterized Mr. Giuliani’s role in making Ukraine policy as one of the two “snake pits” he was concerned about. He later said that he sought assurances from Mr. Pompeo and one of his top advisers that if he returned to service, the State Department would continue to pursue the “well-established” Ukraine policies from the past.— Michael D. Shear | Asked about the article, Mr. Taylor characterized Mr. Giuliani’s role in making Ukraine policy as one of the two “snake pits” he was concerned about. He later said that he sought assurances from Mr. Pompeo and one of his top advisers that if he returned to service, the State Department would continue to pursue the “well-established” Ukraine policies from the past.— Michael D. Shear |
| Page 45-46: “I’ve always kept careful notes, and I keep a little notebook where I take notes on conversations, in particular when I’m not in the office. So, in meetings with Ukrainian officials or when I’m out and I get a phone call and I can — I keep notes.” | Page 45-46: “I’ve always kept careful notes, and I keep a little notebook where I take notes on conversations, in particular when I’m not in the office. So, in meetings with Ukrainian officials or when I’m out and I get a phone call and I can — I keep notes.” |
| Later saying, “Handwritten notes that I take on a small, little spiral notebook in my office of phone calls that take place in my office.” | Later saying, “Handwritten notes that I take on a small, little spiral notebook in my office of phone calls that take place in my office.” |
| Mr. Taylor has become one of the star witnesses for the Democratic-led impeachment effort, appearing first in public hearings that will begin next week. That is partly because in his closed-door testimony, Mr. Taylor referred repeatedly to notes and memos, bolstering investigators’ confidence in his recollections. Those documents could provide new and potentially explosive avenues of investigation for Democrats as they march toward writing articles of impeachment.— Michael D. Shear | Mr. Taylor has become one of the star witnesses for the Democratic-led impeachment effort, appearing first in public hearings that will begin next week. That is partly because in his closed-door testimony, Mr. Taylor referred repeatedly to notes and memos, bolstering investigators’ confidence in his recollections. Those documents could provide new and potentially explosive avenues of investigation for Democrats as they march toward writing articles of impeachment.— Michael D. Shear |
| Page 102: “What the embassy tries to do, as a general rule, is stay out of either our domestic or Ukraine internal politics. So we have not we have tried to avoid dealing certainly with Mr. Giuliani and the kind of efforts that he was interested in. So that’s, again, for we don’t get involved in election campaigns on either side.” | Page 102: “What the embassy tries to do, as a general rule, is stay out of either our domestic or Ukraine internal politics. So we have not we have tried to avoid dealing certainly with Mr. Giuliani and the kind of efforts that he was interested in. So that’s, again, for we don’t get involved in election campaigns on either side.” |
| Mr. Giuliani’s Ukraine campaign appeared to be viewed as a matter of American domestic politics from the moment Mr. Taylor arrived in Ukraine. During his deposition, the Republican counsel for the House investigators asked Mr. Taylor if he knew about the concerns “folks aligned with the president” had about Ukrainian influence in the 2016 election. Mr. Taylor repeatedly expressed disappointment about Ukrainians taking sides in American politics and said he similarly advised his diplomats to avoid dealing with Mr. Giuliani. The comment also shows the tightrope Mr. Taylor walks in his post in the embassy in Ukraine.— Julian E. Barnes | Mr. Giuliani’s Ukraine campaign appeared to be viewed as a matter of American domestic politics from the moment Mr. Taylor arrived in Ukraine. During his deposition, the Republican counsel for the House investigators asked Mr. Taylor if he knew about the concerns “folks aligned with the president” had about Ukrainian influence in the 2016 election. Mr. Taylor repeatedly expressed disappointment about Ukrainians taking sides in American politics and said he similarly advised his diplomats to avoid dealing with Mr. Giuliani. The comment also shows the tightrope Mr. Taylor walks in his post in the embassy in Ukraine.— Julian E. Barnes |
| Page 109 “I didn’t think it was a problem in the beginning. And, actually, it could have been helpful, because Ambassador Sondland is able is able to call the president, and that’s a valuable thing, if you want to try to move our U.S.-Ukraine relations.” | Page 109 “I didn’t think it was a problem in the beginning. And, actually, it could have been helpful, because Ambassador Sondland is able is able to call the president, and that’s a valuable thing, if you want to try to move our U.S.-Ukraine relations.” |
| The shadow foreign policy run by Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Sondland and Kurt D. Volker, the special envoy on Ukraine, has been at the heart of Ukrainian foreign policy. In his testimony, Mr. Taylor makes clear that when he first arrived in Kiev, he thought the high-level interest by people who have Mr. Trump’s ear might actually improve relations. But Mr. Taylor’s view quickly changed and he testified that “the Giuliani factor” affected Mr. Volker, diverting his focus away from the most important issues involving Ukraine.— Julian E. Barnes | The shadow foreign policy run by Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Sondland and Kurt D. Volker, the special envoy on Ukraine, has been at the heart of Ukrainian foreign policy. In his testimony, Mr. Taylor makes clear that when he first arrived in Kiev, he thought the high-level interest by people who have Mr. Trump’s ear might actually improve relations. But Mr. Taylor’s view quickly changed and he testified that “the Giuliani factor” affected Mr. Volker, diverting his focus away from the most important issues involving Ukraine.— Julian E. Barnes |
| Page 285: “There was some discomfort within the State Department with Ambassador Sondland’s role in Ukraine. Of course, Ukraine is not in the E.U. But it was well known that, in that famous May 23rd meeting in the Oval Office, that Ambassador Sondland was given direction, with Secretary Perry and Ambassador Volker, to focus on Ukraine, to do something with regard to Ukraine policy.” | Page 285: “There was some discomfort within the State Department with Ambassador Sondland’s role in Ukraine. Of course, Ukraine is not in the E.U. But it was well known that, in that famous May 23rd meeting in the Oval Office, that Ambassador Sondland was given direction, with Secretary Perry and Ambassador Volker, to focus on Ukraine, to do something with regard to Ukraine policy.” |
| Mr. Taylor described discomfort at the State Department regarding Mr. Sondland serving as a go-between for the Ukrainian government and the White House. Fiona Hill, Mr. Trump’s former adviser on Russia and Europe, had also feared that his inexperience would make him a vulnerable target for foreign spies. — Lara Jakes | Mr. Taylor described discomfort at the State Department regarding Mr. Sondland serving as a go-between for the Ukrainian government and the White House. Fiona Hill, Mr. Trump’s former adviser on Russia and Europe, had also feared that his inexperience would make him a vulnerable target for foreign spies. — Lara Jakes |