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MSPs to debate indyref2 'framework' legislation Further legislation to be needed for indyref2
(about 16 hours later)
MSPs are to debate legislation that lays the groundwork for a new Scottish independence referendum at Holyrood. Further legislation would need to be tabled at Holyrood before a new referendum on independence could be held, ministers have confirmed.
The Scottish government wants to hold a new ballot in 2020 and has tabled the Referendums Bill to pave the way.The Scottish government wants to hold a new ballot in 2020 and has tabled the Referendums Bill to pave the way.
There have been calls for parts of the bill to be amended, in particular over whether the Electoral Commission would test the question for "indyref2". However MSPs have now been told that a further "short bill" will be needed to legislate for an independence vote.
However, the legislation is expected to progress with the backing of the SNP and the Greens in any case. The pro-UK parties have opposed the Referendums Bill at Holyrood, but is set to pass with SNP and Green backing.
The issue of a referendum has become a key topic of debate in the general election campaign, with the SNP putting it "at the heart" of their platform and Labour and the Conservatives disputing whether they would agree to hold one in future.The issue of a referendum has become a key topic of debate in the general election campaign, with the SNP putting it "at the heart" of their platform and Labour and the Conservatives disputing whether they would agree to hold one in future.
The Referendums (Scotland) Bill sets the general framework for any referendum, and would give ministers the power to set the date, question and campaign period of any poll later. First Minister Nicola Sturgeon wants to have a new vote in the second half of 2020, and has targeted having the Referendums (Scotland) Bill in law "by the new year" as part of the preparations for this.
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has targeted having the bill in law "by the new year" as part of her campaign for a vote in the second half of 2020.
She has also pledged to formally request a transfer of power from Westminster - similar to the agreement prior to the 2014 referendum, which she said would put the legality of the vote "beyond any doubt" - before Christmas.She has also pledged to formally request a transfer of power from Westminster - similar to the agreement prior to the 2014 referendum, which she said would put the legality of the vote "beyond any doubt" - before Christmas.
However, the Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems are opposed to a second referendum and are expected to speak out during the first formal debate and vote on the legislation. The legislation sets the general framework for any referendum, and as drafted would give ministers the power to set the date, question and campaign period of any poll later.
One key point of debate is likely to be the question for any new referendum, with ministers so far resisting calls to allow electoral watchdogs to have a say on it. However after complaints that this handed too much leeway to ministers, Holyrood's constitution committee said new primary legislation should be needed for any ballot on a constitutional issue.
The Electoral Commission would normally be brought in to test the question for any plebiscite, but the bill as it stands would not require this if the "yes" or "no" question used in 2014 was repeated. Constitutional Relations Secretary Mike Russell told MSPs that he was "happy to accept this", underlining that this would mean further legislation would now be needed before a new independence poll.
The Commission "firmly recommend" they are allowed to test the question again regardless, and Holyrood's constitution committee unanimously said ministers "must recognise the weight of evidence in favour" of this and come to an agreement with the watchdog. He said: "I agree that normally a short bill should be the way to trigger a referendum and I can confirm that any proposal for a future Scottish independence referendum should now require a short bill."
Constitution Secretary Mike Russell has said he is open to talks with the Commission on a range of topics, although he has also said he is "against retesting" and Ms Sturgeon has claimed the move is part of opposition parties seeking to "rig the entire process". Question testing
The committee also called for ministerial powers to call referendums in the bill to be stripped back, saying new primary legislation should be required for any vote on a constitutional matter. Mr Russell also said he would reconsider the issue of whether the Electoral Commission would be allowed to test the question of any future independence referendum.
If this were to be added, another bill might need to be passed before an independence referendum could happen. The watchdog would normally be brought in to test the question for any plebiscite, but the bill as it stands would not require this if the "yes" or "no" question used in 2014 was repeated.
At a rally in Glasgow on Saturday, Ms Sturgeon told supporters that a new vote would allow "Scotland's future to be put into Scotland's hands". Mr Russell has previously argued that there is no need to re-test questions, and Ms Sturgeon has claimed the move was part of an attempt to "rig" the referendum by her opponents.
She said: "It is time for Scotland to choose our own future. It is time for Scotland to be an independent country. The Commission "firmly recommend" they are allowed to test again, and Holyrood's constitution committee unanimously said ministers "must recognise the weight of evidence in favour" of this and come to an agreement with the watchdog.
"An independent country that will be the best of friends and family with our neighbours across the British Isles, across Europe and across the world." On Thursday, Mr Russell offered instead to amend the bill to give previously tested questions a "shelf life" of two parliamentary terms.
At the same event, Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie said a "broad and inclusive" campaign could win independence, adding: "In the face of the hard-right Brexit project we must have the ability to protect Scotland and everyone who lives here from what is to come." However, he added: "Some of those who propose testing every question even if it has been tested before are doing so out of principle, and I respect that.
'Independence obsession' "I entirely accept that it is right for me to look at this issue again in the light of those views and the evidence that the committee has received and consider if I should go even further.
The SNP and Greens hold a majority of seats between them at Holyrood, so will be able to pass the referendum legislation. "I am therefore in agreement that I should discuss the matter with the Electoral Commission and come back at stage two with any proposal that may arise from those discussions."
However the Scottish Conservatives have pledged to oppose the bill "every step of the way", while Labour and the Lib Dems are also against having another vote. Mr Russell may ultimately be forced to back down, as Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie said the case for his "shelf life" proposal was "not overwhelming".
The Tories say Ms Sturgeon's "independence obsession" would lead to "another damaging and divisive referendum". He said politicians could not choose to only trust the independent Electoral Commission when they agree with its decisions, saying: "If there is time to conduct question testing, then I struggle to see why that testing should be dispensed with."
Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard said on Wednesday that his party "oppose independence and believe another independence referendum is undesirable and unnecessary". The legislation looks set to pass through Holyrood with support from the SNP and Greens - but all three of the unionist opposition parties said they would oppose it.
And Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie said independence "means years of chaos and distraction", arguing that both this and Brexit should be "ditched". The Scottish Conservatives have pledged to oppose independence "every step of the way", and said they would vote against the "bad bill" at every stage.
Constitution spokesman Adam Tomkins said it was "vital" that the Electoral Commission is "not only permitted, but required by law" to test all referendum questions.
He said there was "no good reason" for avoiding testing, calling the move "nothing other than another ill-conceived power grab from a minister desperate for indyref2".
Labour's Alex Rowley said there was no need for a new independence vote until the "current constitutional crisis" of Brexit is resolved, saying it was "impossible to put a clear proposition to the Scottish people" at present.
He said the "flawed" Referendums Bill was "the SNP indyref2 bill" and an attempt to "rig" the vote, saying Labour could not support it on that basis.
And Lib Dem MSP Mike Rumbles said the bill was a "fraud" and a "waste of taxpayers money", and said the SNP would "face electoral consequences sooner rather than later".