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| A ‘Circus’ or an ‘Education’: How Impeachment Is Playing on the Radio | |
| (about 16 hours later) | |
| CHICAGO — They all watched the same hearing. They just saw it differently. Very differently. | CHICAGO — They all watched the same hearing. They just saw it differently. Very differently. |
| A day after the first public testimony in the House impeachment inquiry, Americans had plenty to say. But whether the hearing was seen as a partisan charade or a damning blow to President Trump depended largely on a person’s pre-existing political sympathies. | A day after the first public testimony in the House impeachment inquiry, Americans had plenty to say. But whether the hearing was seen as a partisan charade or a damning blow to President Trump depended largely on a person’s pre-existing political sympathies. |
| To better understand how the hearings were playing across the nation, reporters for The New York Times listened to callers and hosts on talk radio shows on both ends of the political spectrum. Not surprisingly, the airwaves offered little consensus on the merits of the impeachment case or the legality of Mr. Trump’s dealings with Ukraine. There was one narrow piece of agreement, though. On both the left and the right, people around the country saw the events in Washington as a solemn test of American democracy, and their political opposition as a grave threat. | To better understand how the hearings were playing across the nation, reporters for The New York Times listened to callers and hosts on talk radio shows on both ends of the political spectrum. Not surprisingly, the airwaves offered little consensus on the merits of the impeachment case or the legality of Mr. Trump’s dealings with Ukraine. There was one narrow piece of agreement, though. On both the left and the right, people around the country saw the events in Washington as a solemn test of American democracy, and their political opposition as a grave threat. |
| The evidence? Compelling, listeners agreed. The witnesses? Impressive. The president’s conduct? Impeachable without a doubt. | The evidence? Compelling, listeners agreed. The witnesses? Impressive. The president’s conduct? Impeachable without a doubt. |
| But would it — could it? — end in Mr. Trump’s removal from office? | But would it — could it? — end in Mr. Trump’s removal from office? |
| “Some are saying that there are some Republican senators that are, believe it or not, ready to throw him under the bus to protect their own,” said Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who was filling in as the morning host. | “Some are saying that there are some Republican senators that are, believe it or not, ready to throw him under the bus to protect their own,” said Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who was filling in as the morning host. |
| Roosevelt, the first caller, was not as sure. He predicted that there would not be enough senators to remove Mr. Trump from office. But perhaps there would be “enough to raise eyebrows” and doom the president politically. | Roosevelt, the first caller, was not as sure. He predicted that there would not be enough senators to remove Mr. Trump from office. But perhaps there would be “enough to raise eyebrows” and doom the president politically. |
| “His re-election, to me, is over,” Roosevelt said. “That middle is going to get shifted over to the Democratic side.” | “His re-election, to me, is over,” Roosevelt said. “That middle is going to get shifted over to the Democratic side.” |
| All through the morning drive, callers on Chicago’s liberal talk station voiced outrage about the president, but they offered mixed views of what impeachment would mean. | All through the morning drive, callers on Chicago’s liberal talk station voiced outrage about the president, but they offered mixed views of what impeachment would mean. |
| Brad from Elk Grove Village said he was “doing good — and better every day now that we’ve finally got this in front of the public.” Ronald said Democrats should stay focused on other priorities, too. Louis said the Democratic presidential candidates’ platforms had been overshadowed by the impeachment hearings. | Brad from Elk Grove Village said he was “doing good — and better every day now that we’ve finally got this in front of the public.” Ronald said Democrats should stay focused on other priorities, too. Louis said the Democratic presidential candidates’ platforms had been overshadowed by the impeachment hearings. |
| In addition to disgust for Mr. Trump, many callers shared one nagging concern: that the other side was unlikely to be persuaded. | In addition to disgust for Mr. Trump, many callers shared one nagging concern: that the other side was unlikely to be persuaded. |
| “Impeach Trump — the evidence is already there,” a caller named Pam said. “It’s just a matter of exposing it to the public. We won’t change Republicans, Cliff. Maybe independents, perhaps.” | “Impeach Trump — the evidence is already there,” a caller named Pam said. “It’s just a matter of exposing it to the public. We won’t change Republicans, Cliff. Maybe independents, perhaps.” |
| As far as Steve from Duluth is concerned, the impeachment public hearings should not proceed until the identity of the anonymous whistle-blower who started the whole inquiry is revealed. | As far as Steve from Duluth is concerned, the impeachment public hearings should not proceed until the identity of the anonymous whistle-blower who started the whole inquiry is revealed. |
| If there actually is a whistle-blower, he said. | If there actually is a whistle-blower, he said. |
| “My statement would be, you won’t tell us who this whistle-blower is, so this so-called trial is over because how do we know there is a whistle-blower, just cause you say there is a whistle-blower?” Steve asked in a call to “Sound Off,” a weekday radio program in Minnesota. “How do we know there is one?” | “My statement would be, you won’t tell us who this whistle-blower is, so this so-called trial is over because how do we know there is a whistle-blower, just cause you say there is a whistle-blower?” Steve asked in a call to “Sound Off,” a weekday radio program in Minnesota. “How do we know there is one?” |
| Brad Bennett, the host of the three-hour morning show, quickly agreed. “Actually Steve, that is not a bad idea.” He noted that Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, has said that a Senate trial needed to expose the whistle-blower’s identity to investigate whether there is any relationship between the whistle-blower and Joseph R. Biden Jr., the former vice president and current presidential candidate. | Brad Bennett, the host of the three-hour morning show, quickly agreed. “Actually Steve, that is not a bad idea.” He noted that Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, has said that a Senate trial needed to expose the whistle-blower’s identity to investigate whether there is any relationship between the whistle-blower and Joseph R. Biden Jr., the former vice president and current presidential candidate. |
| “I thought it was an interesting theory,” Mr. Bennett said, adding, “For example, if they find out who the whistle-blower is and they find out this guy was an operative, worked on the Biden campaign, was involved with him, maybe did some work with him, that would throw the whole thing out. Wouldn’t it?” | “I thought it was an interesting theory,” Mr. Bennett said, adding, “For example, if they find out who the whistle-blower is and they find out this guy was an operative, worked on the Biden campaign, was involved with him, maybe did some work with him, that would throw the whole thing out. Wouldn’t it?” |
| On the show, Steve — one in a parade of callers who made it clear they believed that President Trump has been unfairly accused — insisted that the priority should be determining the existence of a whistle-blower at all. “Yeah,” Steve told the host, “but I still think a statement should be put out there that questions, How do we know there is a whistle-blower if you won’t tell us who this person is?” | On the show, Steve — one in a parade of callers who made it clear they believed that President Trump has been unfairly accused — insisted that the priority should be determining the existence of a whistle-blower at all. “Yeah,” Steve told the host, “but I still think a statement should be put out there that questions, How do we know there is a whistle-blower if you won’t tell us who this person is?” |
| Others called after Steve. | Others called after Steve. |
| Tom said he does not view a quid pro quo “as anything other than the president having the legitimate ability to maneuver on foreign policy. I am more concerned not with the government being for sale, but the president being handcuffed.” | Tom said he does not view a quid pro quo “as anything other than the president having the legitimate ability to maneuver on foreign policy. I am more concerned not with the government being for sale, but the president being handcuffed.” |
| And Mark, from Moose Lake, said he believed that the whole matter had kept Congress from tackling national issues such as balancing the budget or working on the border wall. | And Mark, from Moose Lake, said he believed that the whole matter had kept Congress from tackling national issues such as balancing the budget or working on the border wall. |
| “They are so busy on this impeachment hearing and all the concentration is going into that,” he said, “that the constituents of this country are being overlooked right now because they are not doing their job.” | “They are so busy on this impeachment hearing and all the concentration is going into that,” he said, “that the constituents of this country are being overlooked right now because they are not doing their job.” |
| There was little urgency to dissect the impeachment hearings during four hours of morning conservative talk radio in Montana. Aaron Flint, the host for KBUL in Billings, had plenty to say, but he felt he had already said it the day before. | There was little urgency to dissect the impeachment hearings during four hours of morning conservative talk radio in Montana. Aaron Flint, the host for KBUL in Billings, had plenty to say, but he felt he had already said it the day before. |
| “If you want to hear my reaction to this impeachment circus yesterday, I think Adam Schiff blew it right with the opener,” Mr. Flint said, directing listeners to the station’s website where he blasted the Democratic head of the House Intelligence Committee. | “If you want to hear my reaction to this impeachment circus yesterday, I think Adam Schiff blew it right with the opener,” Mr. Flint said, directing listeners to the station’s website where he blasted the Democratic head of the House Intelligence Committee. |
| “How about this, Adam Schiff?” Mr. Flint said in Wednesday’s recording. “Why don’t you come back to us when you actually have evidence? Why are you wasting our time right now? Why aren’t you working on important things like the United States-Mexico-Canada trade agreement?” | “How about this, Adam Schiff?” Mr. Flint said in Wednesday’s recording. “Why don’t you come back to us when you actually have evidence? Why are you wasting our time right now? Why aren’t you working on important things like the United States-Mexico-Canada trade agreement?” |
| Impeachment, Mr. Flint declared, was a “childish endeavor” and a “coup attempt.” | Impeachment, Mr. Flint declared, was a “childish endeavor” and a “coup attempt.” |
| And so he set aside the subject on Thursday, conducting interviews instead with a state senator who lives four miles from the Canadian border, a local historian who published a book about World War I veterans, and with a Democratic candidate for Congress who touted his upbringing on the family ranch. | And so he set aside the subject on Thursday, conducting interviews instead with a state senator who lives four miles from the Canadian border, a local historian who published a book about World War I veterans, and with a Democratic candidate for Congress who touted his upbringing on the family ranch. |
| The candidate, Matt Rains, fielded a few listener calls, but nobody asked him about impeachment, either. | The candidate, Matt Rains, fielded a few listener calls, but nobody asked him about impeachment, either. |
| “After everything the Democrats have done to this country the past three years, why should anyone trust a Democrat?” asked one of the callers, Matt from Columbia Falls. | “After everything the Democrats have done to this country the past three years, why should anyone trust a Democrat?” asked one of the callers, Matt from Columbia Falls. |
| “My frustrations are yours, Matt,” Mr. Rains responded. | “My frustrations are yours, Matt,” Mr. Rains responded. |
| “There is very little in government right now that is being productively done,” Mr. Rains had lamented on the air earlier. | “There is very little in government right now that is being productively done,” Mr. Rains had lamented on the air earlier. |
| National news briefs from Fox News Radio mentioned impeachment but quickly turned to other headlines. The big local stories involved an overturned fuel truck and the centennial convention of the Montana Farm Bureau. | National news briefs from Fox News Radio mentioned impeachment but quickly turned to other headlines. The big local stories involved an overturned fuel truck and the centennial convention of the Montana Farm Bureau. |
| A tease for Sean Hannity’s afternoon show promised plenty of impeachment talk, though. And when the airwaves moved on to “The Rush Limbaugh Show,” Mr. Limbaugh jumped right in. | A tease for Sean Hannity’s afternoon show promised plenty of impeachment talk, though. And when the airwaves moved on to “The Rush Limbaugh Show,” Mr. Limbaugh jumped right in. |
| “Ladies and gentlemen,” Mr. Limbaugh began, “the Schiff has hit the fan.” | “Ladies and gentlemen,” Mr. Limbaugh began, “the Schiff has hit the fan.” |
| For Arnie Arnesen, the host of a left-leaning talk show in Concord, N.H., the impeachment hearings were a civics lesson, a reminder of the strength of the government, an illustration of what it means to be American. | For Arnie Arnesen, the host of a left-leaning talk show in Concord, N.H., the impeachment hearings were a civics lesson, a reminder of the strength of the government, an illustration of what it means to be American. |
| Of William B. Taylor, the top United States diplomat in Ukraine, and George P. Kent, a senior State Department official in charge of Ukraine policy, she said: “I wanted to be one of those two men. I so admired not only their intellect but their compass and their sense of moral outrage.” | Of William B. Taylor, the top United States diplomat in Ukraine, and George P. Kent, a senior State Department official in charge of Ukraine policy, she said: “I wanted to be one of those two men. I so admired not only their intellect but their compass and their sense of moral outrage.” |
| “To me it was not about impeachment,” she said. “It was an education for me about a government that I didn’t ever quite appreciate.” | “To me it was not about impeachment,” she said. “It was an education for me about a government that I didn’t ever quite appreciate.” |
| “Civic education,” said Russell Muirhead, a professor of democracy and politics at Dartmouth College and a guest on the show. “That’s what these hearings are all about. They’re secondarily about impeachment. Their first purpose is to educate people.” | “Civic education,” said Russell Muirhead, a professor of democracy and politics at Dartmouth College and a guest on the show. “That’s what these hearings are all about. They’re secondarily about impeachment. Their first purpose is to educate people.” |
| But this is New Hampshire, so the conversation quickly shifted away from Capitol Hill and toward the presidential primaries. What did the entry of Deval Patrick, a two-term former governor of Massachusetts, mean for the race? If elected, could Elizabeth Warren really tank the economy, as the ultrawealthy have warned? Is Mr. Biden’s centrism appealing to New Hampshire voters? | But this is New Hampshire, so the conversation quickly shifted away from Capitol Hill and toward the presidential primaries. What did the entry of Deval Patrick, a two-term former governor of Massachusetts, mean for the race? If elected, could Elizabeth Warren really tank the economy, as the ultrawealthy have warned? Is Mr. Biden’s centrism appealing to New Hampshire voters? |
| And how do all these candidates deal with the impeachment proceedings in Washington, as they fly in and out of New Hampshire? “What I’m trying to figure out is, if you’re running for president right now, how do you run with this as your backdrop?” Ms. Arnesen asked. | And how do all these candidates deal with the impeachment proceedings in Washington, as they fly in and out of New Hampshire? “What I’m trying to figure out is, if you’re running for president right now, how do you run with this as your backdrop?” Ms. Arnesen asked. |
| She ended the show by playing a song introduced by Ken Barnes, her co-host, as “Trump’s theme.” It was “Liar,” by Queen. | She ended the show by playing a song introduced by Ken Barnes, her co-host, as “Trump’s theme.” It was “Liar,” by Queen. |
| Mitch Smith and Julie Bosman reported from Chicago, Audra D. S. Burch from Stockbridge, Ga., and Patricia Mazzei from Miami. Rick Rojas contributed reporting from Baton Rouge, La., and Julie Turkewitz from Denver. | Mitch Smith and Julie Bosman reported from Chicago, Audra D. S. Burch from Stockbridge, Ga., and Patricia Mazzei from Miami. Rick Rojas contributed reporting from Baton Rouge, La., and Julie Turkewitz from Denver. |