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Embassy Official Confirms Trump Asked About Ukraine Investigations Embassy Official Confirms Trump Asked About Ukraine Investigation
(about 2 hours later)
WASHINGTON — An official from the United States Embassy in Kiev confirmed to House impeachment investigators on Friday that he overheard a call between President Trump and a top American diplomat in July in which the president inquired about investigations he wanted from Ukraine, according to three people familiar with the testimony. WASHINGTON — An official from the United States Embassy in Kiev confirmed to House impeachment investigators on Friday that he had overheard a call between President Trump and a top American diplomat in July in which the president asked whether Ukraine was going to move forward with an investigation he wanted, according to three people familiar with the testimony.
The official, David Holmes, testified privately that he was at a restaurant in Ukraine’s capital when he heard Mr. Trump during a cellphone call loudly asking Gordon D. Sondland, the American ambassador to the European Union, if Ukraine’s president had agreed to conduct investigations into his political rivals. Mr. Sondland, who was in Kiev for meetings with top Ukrainian officials at the time, replied in the affirmative. The official, David Holmes, testified privately that he was at a restaurant in Ukraine’s capital when he heard Mr. Trump during a cellphone call loudly asking Gordon D. Sondland, the American ambassador to the European Union, if Ukraine’s president had agreed to conduct an investigation into his political rivals. Mr. Sondland, who was in Kiev at the time for meetings with top Ukrainian officials, including the country’s president earlier in the day, replied in the affirmative.
Mr. Sondland told Mr. Trump that President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine “loves your ass,” and would conduct the investigations and “anything you ask him to,” according to two of the people, who described his testimony on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss it. “So, he’s going to do the investigation?” Mr. Trump asked, according to the testimony.
After the call ended, Mr. Holmes asked it if was true that the president did not care about Ukraine, the people said. The ambassador replied that Mr. Trump cared only about the “big stuff,” like investigations that his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani was pushing for, because they affected him personally. Mr. Sondland told Mr. Trump that President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine “loves your ass,” and would conduct the investigation and do “anything you ask him to,” according to two of the people, who described the testimony on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss it.
After the call ended, Mr. Holmes asked if it was true that the president did not care about Ukraine, the people said. The ambassador replied that Mr. Trump cared only about the “big stuff.” Mr. Holmes noted Ukraine had “big stuff” going on, like a war with Russia. But Mr. Sondland had something else in mind.
Mr. Sondland told Mr. Holmes he meant “‘big stuff’ that benefited the president,” like the “Biden investigation” that his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani was pushing for, because they affected him personally.
Mr. Holmes’s account could be crucial to Democrats’ case because it illustrates how preoccupied Mr. Trump was with persuading Ukraine’s president to go along with his demand that the country commit publicly to investigating former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., a leading political rival, and how he actively used his power and the instruments of American foreign policy to see that it happened.
It also adds significant new details to a conversation that was first revealed on Wednesday during public testimony by Mr. Holmes’s boss, William B. Taylor Jr., the top American envoy in Ukraine. Mr. Taylor said then that he had only recently learned of the episode. It raised the possibility that Mr. Holmes could be called to testify publicly in the impeachment inquiry and presented Democrats with new leads to track down even as they conduct a string of high-profile public hearings with other witnesses.
Mr. Holmes, a career Foreign Service officer who is the political counselor in the American Embassy in Kiev, said he had been following the impeachment inquiry from afar in recent weeks and came to understand only belatedly that he had pertinent information to share. He testified under subpoena after the State Department directed him not to appear, according to an official working on the inquiry.
“I came to realize I had firsthand knowledge regarding certain events on July 26 that had not otherwise been reported, and that those events potentially bore on the question of whether the president did, in fact, have knowledge that those officials were using the levers of our diplomatic power to induce the new Ukrainian president to announce the opening of a particular criminal investigation,” he testified.
The conversation between Mr. Trump and Mr. Sondland took place on July 26, one day after Mr. Trump personally pressed Mr. Zelensky in a now-famous phone call to investigate Mr. Biden and his son Hunter, as well as unproven allegations that Ukraine conspired with Democrats to interfere in the 2016 election.
Mr. Sondland did not mention the episode to investigators last month when he answered their questions in private. He will almost certainly be asked about it next week when he appears for public testimony before the House Intelligence Committee.
He has already revised his initial testimony once, admitting to the panel last week that he told a top Ukrainian official that the country would probably not receive a package of nearly $400 million in security assistance unless it committed publicly to the investigations Mr. Trump sought. And Republicans have argued that he may be overstating his access to and influence with the president.
Some details of the conversation were first reported by CNN.Some details of the conversation were first reported by CNN.
The call took place on July 26, one day after Mr. Trump personally pressed Mr. Zelensky to investigate former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his son Hunter, as well as unproven allegations that Ukraine conspired with Democrats to interfere in the 2016 election.
The existence of call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Sondland was first revealed on Wednesday during public testimony from Mr. Holmes’s boss, William B. Taylor Jr., the top American envoy in Ukraine. Mr. Taylor said then that he had only learned of the episode recently.
Mr. Sondland did not mention the episode to investigators last month when he answered their questions in private. He will almost certainly be asked about it next week when he appears for public testimony before the House Intelligence Committee. He has already revised his initial testimony once, admitting to the panel last week that he told a top Ukrainian official that the country would probably not receive a package of nearly $400 million in security assistance unless it committed publicly to the investigations Mr. Trump sought.
On Thursday, two people familiar with the matter said that a second embassy official, Suriya Jayanti, also overheard the call and could corroborate Mr. Holmes’s account. It is unclear if investigators will also call her to testify. On Friday, Mr. Holmes indicated there was a third person present who would have overheard it, as well.On Thursday, two people familiar with the matter said that a second embassy official, Suriya Jayanti, also overheard the call and could corroborate Mr. Holmes’s account. It is unclear if investigators will also call her to testify. On Friday, Mr. Holmes indicated there was a third person present who would have overheard it, as well.
Mr. Holmes told investigators that he did not take notes during the conversation, but said he informed another embassy official about it shortly after. Mr. Holmes told investigators that he did not take notes during the conversation, but said he immediately informed other embassy officials about it.
Mr. Holmes described sitting at a table in the restaurant with Mr. Sondland when the president called. The president was speaking so loudly, he said, that Mr. Sondland held the phone away from his ear and Mr. Holmes and others could hear Mr. Trump’s voice. Mr. Holmes described sitting on the terrace of a Kiev restaurant during lunch with Mr. Sondland, sharing a bottle of wine, when Mr. Sondland called the president. The president was speaking so loudly, he said, that Mr. Sondland held the phone away from his ear and Mr. Holmes and others could hear Mr. Trump’s voice.
In addition to discussing the investigations, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Sondland about ASAP Rocky, an American rapper imprisoned in Sweden at the time. In addition to discussing the investigations, Mr. Trump and Mr. Sondland discussed ASAP Rocky, an American rapper imprisoned in Sweden at the time on charges of assault. Mr. Sondland told the president the rapper was “kind of f—d there,” according to Mr. Holmes’s written statement, and “should have pled guilty.”
Mr. Sondland then advised Mr. Trump that he should “let him get sentenced, play the racism card, give him a ticker-tape when he comes home,” Mr. Holmes testified. The ambassador added that Sweden “should have released him on your word,” and added, referring to the reality TV family pressing for Mr. Trump’s help in the case, “you can tell the Kardashians you tried.”
Mr. Holmes described the episode during an extended opening statement. It was not immediately clear if Democrats would call Mr. Holmes to testify in public.Mr. Holmes described the episode during an extended opening statement. It was not immediately clear if Democrats would call Mr. Holmes to testify in public.
Mr. Holmes is a career Foreign Service officer who currently serves as the political counselor in the American Embassy in Kiev.