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Fifty-One Percent of the Population, Zero Nominations Fifty-One Percent of the Population, Zero Nominations
(about 16 hours later)
This article is part of the Debatable newsletter. You can sign up here to receive it Tuesdays and Thursdays.This article is part of the Debatable newsletter. You can sign up here to receive it Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Last week, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association produced predictable indignation when it announced that, for the fifth year in a row, not one female director had been nominated for a Golden Globe.Last week, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association produced predictable indignation when it announced that, for the fifth year in a row, not one female director had been nominated for a Golden Globe.
In the wake of the announcement, the Times journalists Nicole Sperling and Brooks Barnes reported that “women have come a long way in Hollywood since 2017, when the #MeToo and Time’s Up movements swept the culture — maybe so far that the film establishment, still overwhelmingly male, is reflexively trying to throw on the brakes.”In the wake of the announcement, the Times journalists Nicole Sperling and Brooks Barnes reported that “women have come a long way in Hollywood since 2017, when the #MeToo and Time’s Up movements swept the culture — maybe so far that the film establishment, still overwhelmingly male, is reflexively trying to throw on the brakes.”
I got in touch with Ms. Sperling to talk about the barriers still facing women in Hollywood, whether a problem with “the pipeline” of female talent is really to blame and how cultural institutions respond to and resist calls for diversification. Below is an edited and condensed version of our conversation.I got in touch with Ms. Sperling to talk about the barriers still facing women in Hollywood, whether a problem with “the pipeline” of female talent is really to blame and how cultural institutions respond to and resist calls for diversification. Below is an edited and condensed version of our conversation.
Can you give some background on the controversy for those who haven’t been following it closely?Can you give some background on the controversy for those who haven’t been following it closely?
N.S.: The Hollywood Foreign Press Association chooses the Golden Globes nominees. There are about 88 of these journalists, and none of them vote for the Academy Awards. However, everyone in Hollywood either goes to the Golden Globes or talks about this event or is aware of this event, so clearly it helps frame the Oscar conversation.N.S.: The Hollywood Foreign Press Association chooses the Golden Globes nominees. There are about 88 of these journalists, and none of them vote for the Academy Awards. However, everyone in Hollywood either goes to the Golden Globes or talks about this event or is aware of this event, so clearly it helps frame the Oscar conversation.
And with #MeToo and Times Up, and the discussion around female equality in Hollywood, the issue of female directors has long been a source of contention, because on average, of the top-grossing movies over the past 12 years, 4 percent of them were directed by women. And with #MeToo and Time’s Up, and the discussion around female equality in Hollywood, the issue of female directors has long been a source of contention, because on average, of the top-grossing movies over the past 12 years, 4 percent of them were directed by women.
Has that changed over time?Has that changed over time?
N.S.: So this year, 12 to 14 women-directed movies will land on the top-grossing 100 films of the year, which is not anywhere close to parity, but it’s at least an improvement from where it’s been.N.S.: So this year, 12 to 14 women-directed movies will land on the top-grossing 100 films of the year, which is not anywhere close to parity, but it’s at least an improvement from where it’s been.
But now, not only do you have more female filmmakers, you also have films like “The Farewell,” from Lulu Wang, that received a 98 percent fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes; “Hustlers” got an 88 and grossed $150 million worldwide; “Booksmart,” by Olivia Wilde, who’s a first-time filmmaker, got a 97; “Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood” got a 95; and “Little Women” got a 97.But now, not only do you have more female filmmakers, you also have films like “The Farewell,” from Lulu Wang, that received a 98 percent fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes; “Hustlers” got an 88 and grossed $150 million worldwide; “Booksmart,” by Olivia Wilde, who’s a first-time filmmaker, got a 97; “Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood” got a 95; and “Little Women” got a 97.
All of those did better critically than Quentin Tarantino’s “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,” which is considered a front-runner in the Oscars race. So is Martin Scorsese’s “The Irishman,” which doesn’t have as high a Rotten Tomatoes score as “Little Women,” “Booksmart” or “The Farewell.”All of those did better critically than Quentin Tarantino’s “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,” which is considered a front-runner in the Oscars race. So is Martin Scorsese’s “The Irishman,” which doesn’t have as high a Rotten Tomatoes score as “Little Women,” “Booksmart” or “The Farewell.”
So people are saying that these movies are made by women, but they’re also critically acclaimed, and for the most part commercial hits. And yet they’re being overlooked in a lot of the important categories, primarily the directing category, which has rarely featured women.So people are saying that these movies are made by women, but they’re also critically acclaimed, and for the most part commercial hits. And yet they’re being overlooked in a lot of the important categories, primarily the directing category, which has rarely featured women.
When was the last time a woman won for director?When was the last time a woman won for director?
N.S.: In 2010, after 82 years, Kathryn Bigelow became the first and only female director to win an Oscar. For the Golden Globes, it was Barbra Streisand in 1984. So people are disappointed, but I don’t know if anyone is that shocked.N.S.: In 2010, after 82 years, Kathryn Bigelow became the first and only female director to win an Oscar. For the Golden Globes, it was Barbra Streisand in 1984. So people are disappointed, but I don’t know if anyone is that shocked.
In 2016, the president of SAG-AFTRA (the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists) said that there was a “pipeline problem” in Hollywood that restricts opportunities for nonwhite, nonmale talent. What does that look like on the ground?In 2016, the president of SAG-AFTRA (the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists) said that there was a “pipeline problem” in Hollywood that restricts opportunities for nonwhite, nonmale talent. What does that look like on the ground?
N.S.: It’s a combination of bias about what directors are supposed to look like and just not thinking about female directors at all when open director assignments — the process of interviewing potential directors for a project — are available.N.S.: It’s a combination of bias about what directors are supposed to look like and just not thinking about female directors at all when open director assignments — the process of interviewing potential directors for a project — are available.
The University of Southern California’s Annenberg Inclusion Initiative researches gender inequality in Hollywood and media, and they did this study a few years ago where Hollywood agents and studio executives were asked to describe a director. Two times as often they would use words associated with men.The University of Southern California’s Annenberg Inclusion Initiative researches gender inequality in Hollywood and media, and they did this study a few years ago where Hollywood agents and studio executives were asked to describe a director. Two times as often they would use words associated with men.
Then they asked the same people why they think there are so few female directors working in Hollywood. Forty-two percent said there was just a small pool. They also asked the executives who was on their roster of people they contacted for open director’s assignments. On average these executives could name only three female directors, and very frequently they couldn’t name any.Then they asked the same people why they think there are so few female directors working in Hollywood. Forty-two percent said there was just a small pool. They also asked the executives who was on their roster of people they contacted for open director’s assignments. On average these executives could name only three female directors, and very frequently they couldn’t name any.
That’s shocking because there’s a ton of female directors who come through Sundance, the country’s pre-eminent independent film festival. There’s also the example of Anne Fletcher, who’s directed more top-grossing films than any other woman. She’s never brought up because she makes movies like “The Proposal” — light comedies that aren’t taken seriously. But there are a lot of male directors who make those same kinds of films and they’re brought in for directing assignments all the time.That’s shocking because there’s a ton of female directors who come through Sundance, the country’s pre-eminent independent film festival. There’s also the example of Anne Fletcher, who’s directed more top-grossing films than any other woman. She’s never brought up because she makes movies like “The Proposal” — light comedies that aren’t taken seriously. But there are a lot of male directors who make those same kinds of films and they’re brought in for directing assignments all the time.
Like a “Hangover” situation.Like a “Hangover” situation.
N.S.: Exactly. That was Todd Phillips, and he might be an Academy Award nominee for “The Joker” soon. We’ll see what happens. But Todd Phillips was making comedies, yet they had no problem seeing him fit to direct “The Joker.”N.S.: Exactly. That was Todd Phillips, and he might be an Academy Award nominee for “The Joker” soon. We’ll see what happens. But Todd Phillips was making comedies, yet they had no problem seeing him fit to direct “The Joker.”
So with more films being made by female directors, is there some disagreement about to what extent the “pipeline problem” is really to blame for the discrepancy in who’s getting nominated?So with more films being made by female directors, is there some disagreement about to what extent the “pipeline problem” is really to blame for the discrepancy in who’s getting nominated?
N.S.: In years past, the crop of movies and directors hasn’t been as big or as strong, so it’s been easier to overlook the crop, to say, it’s a pipeline problem, they’re not getting enough chances. But what’s happening is women do seem to be getting more chances. Not enough, but more.N.S.: In years past, the crop of movies and directors hasn’t been as big or as strong, so it’s been easier to overlook the crop, to say, it’s a pipeline problem, they’re not getting enough chances. But what’s happening is women do seem to be getting more chances. Not enough, but more.
So now, I don’t know if it’s reflective of the pipeline or just of the overall bias that the people making these award decisions have. The kind of movies women make, they’re often thought of as movies for a smaller population, more independent, not as broad. It’s kind of a ridiculous sentiment, but it perpetuates itself.So now, I don’t know if it’s reflective of the pipeline or just of the overall bias that the people making these award decisions have. The kind of movies women make, they’re often thought of as movies for a smaller population, more independent, not as broad. It’s kind of a ridiculous sentiment, but it perpetuates itself.
We’ll see what happens with the Academy Awards. Jennifer Lopez will likely get an acting nomination for “Hustlers,” but the movie’s unlikely to get into the Best Picture conversation at all, and Lorene Scafaria, who directed it, is unlikely to get into the director’s race. If that movie had been directed by a man, could we expect to see a different scenario? Perhaps.We’ll see what happens with the Academy Awards. Jennifer Lopez will likely get an acting nomination for “Hustlers,” but the movie’s unlikely to get into the Best Picture conversation at all, and Lorene Scafaria, who directed it, is unlikely to get into the director’s race. If that movie had been directed by a man, could we expect to see a different scenario? Perhaps.
Has the Hollywood Foreign Press Association said anything about its nomination choices?Has the Hollywood Foreign Press Association said anything about its nomination choices?
N.S.: Lorenzo Soria, the H.F.P.A.’s president, said, “What happened is that we don’t vote by gender. We vote by film and accomplishment.”N.S.: Lorenzo Soria, the H.F.P.A.’s president, said, “What happened is that we don’t vote by gender. We vote by film and accomplishment.”
Does Hollywood in general share that attitude, that the demographic discrepancies in whose work gets recognized stems from a failure of ambition or aesthetic achievement on the part of women and minorities?Does Hollywood in general share that attitude, that the demographic discrepancies in whose work gets recognized stems from a failure of ambition or aesthetic achievement on the part of women and minorities?
N.S.: There have been a few awards prognosticators who have said something like, maybe just the best five directors were men. We just need to get over this affirmative action kind of approach to everything. This year, with the data behind these movies, it’s a little harder to make that same argument.N.S.: There have been a few awards prognosticators who have said something like, maybe just the best five directors were men. We just need to get over this affirmative action kind of approach to everything. This year, with the data behind these movies, it’s a little harder to make that same argument.
On the other hand, the Academy, while still predominantly male and white, has admitted a lot more women and people of color into their ranks, because they recognize that the people voting need to look like the rest of the country, if not the world. They’re at least trying to make strides in that direction, whereas it doesn’t seem like the H.F.P.A. is all that concerned. But I can’t tell you exactly how, since the H.F.P.A. membership isn’t public.On the other hand, the Academy, while still predominantly male and white, has admitted a lot more women and people of color into their ranks, because they recognize that the people voting need to look like the rest of the country, if not the world. They’re at least trying to make strides in that direction, whereas it doesn’t seem like the H.F.P.A. is all that concerned. But I can’t tell you exactly how, since the H.F.P.A. membership isn’t public.
Are there artists who believe that award shows are already too freighted with significance, that they’re not worth reforming or that they receive too much attention relative to other problems in the industry?Are there artists who believe that award shows are already too freighted with significance, that they’re not worth reforming or that they receive too much attention relative to other problems in the industry?
N.S.: A woman named Alma Har’el, who directed “Honeyboy,” posted a whole thread to that effect. She’s been the most vocal.N.S.: A woman named Alma Har’el, who directed “Honeyboy,” posted a whole thread to that effect. She’s been the most vocal.
Ava DuVernay posted a thread, too. Her show “When They See Us” was nominated for a ton of Emmys but shut out of the Golden Globes. And she’s just kind of saying how it’s all about the work and the process and not really about these shows. I think she’s realized that that’s not where all the gratification is going to come from.Ava DuVernay posted a thread, too. Her show “When They See Us” was nominated for a ton of Emmys but shut out of the Golden Globes. And she’s just kind of saying how it’s all about the work and the process and not really about these shows. I think she’s realized that that’s not where all the gratification is going to come from.
Have thoughts about Hollywood’s diversity debate? Email us at debatable@nytimes.com. Please note your name, age and location in your response, which may be included in the next newsletter.Have thoughts about Hollywood’s diversity debate? Email us at debatable@nytimes.com. Please note your name, age and location in your response, which may be included in the next newsletter.
Here’s what readers had to say about the last debate: Trump’s executive order on anti-Semitism.Here’s what readers had to say about the last debate: Trump’s executive order on anti-Semitism.
Joshua from Israel: “Jews have not been accorded those same protections in many U.S. campuses. Now perhaps their situation will improve. … If the executive order had not come from Mr. Trump, there would not be the negative knee-jerk reaction. Sometimes he is correct. This is one of those times.”Joshua from Israel: “Jews have not been accorded those same protections in many U.S. campuses. Now perhaps their situation will improve. … If the executive order had not come from Mr. Trump, there would not be the negative knee-jerk reaction. Sometimes he is correct. This is one of those times.”
Katrina from Chicago: “Shouldn’t Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act be expanded to include religion? Wouldn’t that be the answer to all the confusion and ambiguity that this executive order seems to be creating?”Katrina from Chicago: “Shouldn’t Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act be expanded to include religion? Wouldn’t that be the answer to all the confusion and ambiguity that this executive order seems to be creating?”
Patrick Howlett-Martin, a diplomat with France’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs: “I would advise anyone who dares to express an opinion on this debate to spend a few days in Gaza: First, the humiliating endeavor to get an authorization to visit this jail; then, the depressing, hopeless situation of the Palestinians, the smiling and innocent children almost starving everywhere. Then, yes, express your views.”Patrick Howlett-Martin, a diplomat with France’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs: “I would advise anyone who dares to express an opinion on this debate to spend a few days in Gaza: First, the humiliating endeavor to get an authorization to visit this jail; then, the depressing, hopeless situation of the Palestinians, the smiling and innocent children almost starving everywhere. Then, yes, express your views.”