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UK coronavirus live: Tory MP Steve Baker calls for Dominic Cummings to go UK coronavirus live: Tory MPs call for Dominic Cummings to go
(30 minutes later)
Grant Shapps to defend No 10 advisor on Sunday morning politics shows amid revelations of further breaches of lockdown rules Grant Shapps defends No 10 advisor on Sunday morning politics shows amid revelations of further breaches of lockdown rules
Marr presses him on how the government can expect the public to make huge sacrifices when Cummings keeps his job after these breaches of rules.
Shapps reiterates that the guidance allowed for arrangements such as the one Cummings made, and that he does not think he needs to resign.
Says it is important to “remain locked down, particularly if you have the symptoms”.
Shapps says his “understanding” is that Cummings did not go up and down between Durham and London “three times”.
Marr presses Shapps on No 10’s denial from yesterday that Cummings had been speaking to police, which was contradicted by Durham police.
Shapps states repeatedly the denial had only been in relation to the claim that police contacted Cummings, when it was his father who made contact himself.
Asked about Barnard Castle, and whether he persoanlly had stated untruthful things in relation to claims Cummings was spotted there on 12 April, Shapps says he’s not sure about the date, and that it’s his understanding that Cummings did stay put while he needed to be in isolation.
He refuses to confirm that Cummings moved around outside the home of his parents in Durham.
Are you absolutely sure he was not seen wandering around in Durham on 19 April, Marr asks.
Shapps answers evasively and says because something is reported in newspapers doesn’t mean it is true, says he goes by statements from No 10.
Marr asks why Shapps has not spoken to Cummings about details of the journeys to Durham.
Shapps says he is the transport secretary.
“I’ve communicated but I haven’t spoken to him directly,” he said.
“I assume he would have taken every possible measure to ensure he was not infecting anybody,” Shapps says, but admits he doesn’t know.
Grant Shapps is now on the Marr show.
He says the lockdown rules apply to everyone, buty says not all theses measures “will be possible” to follow in certain circumstances. He mentions Cummings’ childcare issues again.
Marr reads out the governement’s guidance to him, which asks people not to leave their homes if they have symptoms “under any circumstances”, unless there is “an extreme risk to life”.
He asks whether there was an extreme risk to life in Cummings’ situation.
“They would have felt they had to put some measures in place,” Shapps said, stressing that Cummings’ four-year-old would not have been able to feed and bathe himself.
A fourth Conservative MP, Roger Gale, has called on Cummings to step down.
This from HuffPost UK’s Paul Waugh:
And this from my colleague Rafael Behr:
This from my colleague Dan Sabbagh:
The shadow home secretary, Nick Thomas-Symonds, told BBC1’s Andrew Marr Show that Labour was calling for an urgent investigation into Cummings’ behaviour.
“What we’re asking for, for two things: firstly for there to be an urgent investigation by the Cabinet Office, and second for the prime minister today to take the press conference, the daily press conference, himself to provide answers, because this is an extraordinarily serious situation,” he said.
“The British people have made sacrifices, extraordinary sacrifices, to get through this crisis by following the guidelines.
“We know of grandparents, for example, who’ve not seen their grandchildren for months, sometimes newborn grandchildren, people who’ve died alone without families by their side, people who’ve not been able to attend funerals, and that’s happened because people have followed the guidelines.”
This from the BBC’s Iain Watson:This from the BBC’s Iain Watson:
Another Tory MP, Damian Collins, has joined those calling for Cummings’ resignation.Another Tory MP, Damian Collins, has joined those calling for Cummings’ resignation.
This from the journalist Joe Lo:This from the journalist Joe Lo:
Devi Sridhar, professor of global public health at Edinburgh University, has also called for Cummings to resign.Devi Sridhar, professor of global public health at Edinburgh University, has also called for Cummings to resign.
Speaking on the Ridge show, she said: “He undermined the core public health message which was to stay home, to make sure that children are not left with elderly relatives and also going from an area that was ahead of the country – London – to an area that was a bit behind, north-east England.Speaking on the Ridge show, she said: “He undermined the core public health message which was to stay home, to make sure that children are not left with elderly relatives and also going from an area that was ahead of the country – London – to an area that was a bit behind, north-east England.
“North-east England is now one of the hardest hit parts of the country. So the clear thing is, yes, he needs to resign, but we also need to move on and bring focus to the key issues facing the UK.“North-east England is now one of the hardest hit parts of the country. So the clear thing is, yes, he needs to resign, but we also need to move on and bring focus to the key issues facing the UK.
“The UK now has close to 60,000 excess deaths, one of the worst death rates per capita in the world, we are in a lockdown.“The UK now has close to 60,000 excess deaths, one of the worst death rates per capita in the world, we are in a lockdown.
“We don’t have a good way out of this lockdown because there is no testing and tracing infrastructure to let us safely lift the lockdown, and we have a lot of people suffering because of a lack of clear strategy of how we are going to move forward and get out of the deep hole that we are in.”“We don’t have a good way out of this lockdown because there is no testing and tracing infrastructure to let us safely lift the lockdown, and we have a lot of people suffering because of a lack of clear strategy of how we are going to move forward and get out of the deep hole that we are in.”
This from the FT’s Sebastian Payne:This from the FT’s Sebastian Payne:
Ridge asks Shapps about Ismail Mohamed Abdulwahab again, and whether it’s right for Cummings to be able to see family when the boy died without his by his side.Ridge asks Shapps about Ismail Mohamed Abdulwahab again, and whether it’s right for Cummings to be able to see family when the boy died without his by his side.
Shapps is evasive in his answer, and reiterates that Cummings acted reasonably.Shapps is evasive in his answer, and reiterates that Cummings acted reasonably.
“This is somebody who followed the guidelines by going to ‘lock down’ in order to be in the best place to ensure provision was made for a four-year-old,” he says of Cummings.“This is somebody who followed the guidelines by going to ‘lock down’ in order to be in the best place to ensure provision was made for a four-year-old,” he says of Cummings.
Shapps refuses to comment on allegations that Cummings went to Barnard Castle on 12 April, and says claims he went back to Durham after 14 April are “completely untrue”.
“I certainly know that the first one you mention, of travelling back up [to Durham], I know that is not true,” he said.
“I’m afraid I don’t know [about Barnard Castle] but if that date was true that would have been outside the 14-day period. But I’m afraid I don’t have the information on that.
“But I do know it is not the case that he has travelled backwards and forwards, which seemed to be a major part of the stories I saw in the paper today.”
The Conservative MP Simon Hoare has joined Steve Baker in calling for Cummings’ resignation.
“I don’t have all the times and dates for you but I understand he will have travelled up there towards the end of March and stayed there, remained there for 14 days, didn’t leave the property and isolation, as per the rules and guidance,” Shapps told Ridge, adding he was sure Cummings obeyed social distancing rules.
He said: “You’ll appreciate I wasn’t with them so I can’t tell you exactly what that journey was like, but what I do know is that Dominic Cummings - I saw a clip yesterday of him asking journalists to be spaced two metres apart, so I know he is a stickler for those rules about what to do to make sure you are following the two-metre rule and the like, so I’m sure that they took all the necessary precautions.”
Ridge asks about police reports confirming that Cummings had been in contact with police, which had been denied by the government.
Shapps said the police was contacted by Cummings’ father, not the other way around.
Ridge says Cummings didn’t stay in the same place, as Shapps just said, and that they first travelled 260 miles. Shapps said the guidance was clear in advising people to take appropriate steps.
“He went back up to Durham further times,” Shapps says, but stayed in London after he returned.
He says several times that parts of the story reported are “not true”, says the “basic” story is husband and wife were hunkered down and organised for someone to look after their child.
The most important thing about the government’s guidance is “common sense practical solutions”, particularly when looking after children, Shapps says.
Both parents were concerned about being ill, with Cummings’ wife already ill when they travelled, he believes. “They took perfectly sensible, rational steps,” Shapps says.
Asked when Cummings first had symptoms, Shapps says he doesn’t know, but believes Cummings travelled to Durham at the end of March. He also doesn’t know whether the family stopped during their car journey to Durham.
Ridge says she is disappointed he doesn’t have these details, as the show put these questions to him in advance of the show.
The transport minister, Grant Shapps, is now on Ridge.
“This comes down to somebody trying to do their best by their child,” he says about Cummings’ rule-breaking. “I’d much rather talk to you about transport,” he adds.
“It is very clear that Dominic travelled when everybody else understood Dominic’s slogans to mean ‘stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives’,” Baker told Ridge.
“And I think mums and dads who very much care about their children and who have been forgoing the childcare of their extended family will wonder why he has been allowed to do this.
“I really just don’t see, as we approach the Prime Minister (appearing) at the liaison committee on Wednesday, how this is going to go away unless Dominic goes.”
His “tactics” are out of place, Baker adds.
Steve Baker is now on Sky.
Cummings will keep burning through PM’s political capital if he doesn’t resign, Baker says.
Ridge asks what he thinks of Cummings’ childcare defence. Baker says he represents tens of thousands of people who had similar problems, and the lockdown has been really tough on them.
He is diverting from the real issues. “No one is indispensable”, Baker says, and repeats that he believes Cummings should go.
“He creates an awful lot of collateral damage,” Baker says. “It’s important to win, but not at any cost,” he says, and adds that Cummings has techniques he personally is not a fan of.
“He holds in contempt any effort to hold him to account,” Baker says. “The only person he respects in politics is Michael Gove,” he says.
Cummings has always been good at taking over organisations he works for, Baker adds.
Steve Baker has told BBC Breakfast that Boris Johnson “has what it takes” to sack Cummings, and he will have to accept “quite a large number of resignations” if he sacks him, but that he will have to deal with that. Cummings should go today, he says.