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| Brixton riots: Has enough changed in 40 years? | Brixton riots: Has enough changed in 40 years? |
| (about 7 hours later) | |
| "Society is now breaking out in the same way that we did - 40 years ago," explains Christopher Icha. | "Society is now breaking out in the same way that we did - 40 years ago," explains Christopher Icha. |
| The Brixtonian was only 17 when his home area went up in flames on 10 April 1981. | The Brixtonian was only 17 when his home area went up in flames on 10 April 1981. |
| He took part and saw it as taking a stand against the police. | He took part and saw it as taking a stand against the police. |
| Poor housing, unemployment, and police harassment were later said to have caused the disorder. | Poor housing, unemployment, and police harassment were later said to have caused the disorder. |
| But 40 years on, has enough changed for the children of the riots? | But 40 years on, has enough changed for the children of the riots? |
| On this day: Brixton riots | On this day: Brixton riots |
| What has changed since the Brixton riots? | What has changed since the Brixton riots? |
| The grime MC looks back at the Brixton riots and their impact on the community | |
| 'Utter devastation' | 'Utter devastation' |
| Community worker Olga Carnegie was supposed to be celebrating her wedding on the day of the riots. | Community worker Olga Carnegie was supposed to be celebrating her wedding on the day of the riots. |
| While she did get married, instead of going to her wedding party, she and new husband David were picking their way through the rubble where they lived. | While she did get married, instead of going to her wedding party, she and new husband David were picking their way through the rubble where they lived. |
| Three days of rioting left 279 police injured, some seriously, dozens of cars and buildings destroyed by fire, and caused £7.5m worth of damage. | Three days of rioting left 279 police injured, some seriously, dozens of cars and buildings destroyed by fire, and caused £7.5m worth of damage. |
| Olga and David Carnegie's wedding party was cancelled because of the 1981 Brixton uprising | Olga and David Carnegie's wedding party was cancelled because of the 1981 Brixton uprising |
| "We could see the utter devastation that had taken place," she said. | "We could see the utter devastation that had taken place," she said. |
| "The damage that was done to the shops and the mannequins that were strewn all over the streets. | "The damage that was done to the shops and the mannequins that were strewn all over the streets. |
| "There's a quote, and I think it's Martin Luther King who said it, that 'riot is the language of the unheard'. And we had been unheard for a long time. | "There's a quote, and I think it's Martin Luther King who said it, that 'riot is the language of the unheard'. And we had been unheard for a long time. |
| "We were thinking - 'is this our legacy now?'." | "We were thinking - 'is this our legacy now?'." |
| 'Racial disadvantage' | 'Racial disadvantage' |
| Within society, the legacy was huge. And the voices of young black people like Olga were heard. | Within society, the legacy was huge. And the voices of young black people like Olga were heard. |
| When, later that year, Lord Scarman published his report into the disturbances of 1981, he said the police "must carry some responsibility" for the outbreak of disorder. | When, later that year, Lord Scarman published his report into the disturbances of 1981, he said the police "must carry some responsibility" for the outbreak of disorder. |
| He said "racial disadvantage was a fact of British life", and called for government action to improve housing, jobs and education for young people in riot-torn inner city areas. | He said "racial disadvantage was a fact of British life", and called for government action to improve housing, jobs and education for young people in riot-torn inner city areas. |
| The verdict sent shockwaves through the establishment. | The verdict sent shockwaves through the establishment. |
| Christopher Icha in the mid 1980s - and now | Christopher Icha in the mid 1980s - and now |
| But for those on the front line - like Christopher - the legacy was not change, but stigma. | But for those on the front line - like Christopher - the legacy was not change, but stigma. |
| "Even years later, when I got a job as a production editor, one of the guys there found out that I was from Brixton. He bought a brick to work and put it on my desk. He said, 'you're from Brixton. Here you go, you know what to do with this'. | "Even years later, when I got a job as a production editor, one of the guys there found out that I was from Brixton. He bought a brick to work and put it on my desk. He said, 'you're from Brixton. Here you go, you know what to do with this'. |
| "It just made life worse for us. And if you didn't have a job, you weren't getting one." | "It just made life worse for us. And if you didn't have a job, you weren't getting one." |
| Olga believes Lord Scarman did not go far enough to heal the wounds of years of over-policing in communities like Brixton. | Olga believes Lord Scarman did not go far enough to heal the wounds of years of over-policing in communities like Brixton. |
| "Even though he found that there were instances of discrimination and segregation, I don't think he went far enough to say that there was institutional racism in the police force, which we knew very well that there was." | "Even though he found that there were instances of discrimination and segregation, I don't think he went far enough to say that there was institutional racism in the police force, which we knew very well that there was." |
| It would be 18 years until the MacPherson report gave her the verdict she wanted. | It would be 18 years until the MacPherson report gave her the verdict she wanted. |
| "We had to wait until that killing of Stephen Lawrence before it was said that the police were institutionally racist." | "We had to wait until that killing of Stephen Lawrence before it was said that the police were institutionally racist." |
| Sheldon Thomas, who took part in the Brixton riots, pictured in 1982 | Sheldon Thomas, who took part in the Brixton riots, pictured in 1982 |
| Christopher's friend Sheldon Thomas also took his stand against police during the Brixton riots, aged just 16. | Christopher's friend Sheldon Thomas also took his stand against police during the Brixton riots, aged just 16. |
| Now an expert on gang culture - he believes his generation paved the way for huge change. | Now an expert on gang culture - he believes his generation paved the way for huge change. |
| "I often say to my children, 'if it wasn't for me, you couldn't walk the streets'. | "I often say to my children, 'if it wasn't for me, you couldn't walk the streets'. |
| "Many young black kids would be in a far worse position than they are in now, most definitely. | "Many young black kids would be in a far worse position than they are in now, most definitely. |
| "This is why I say to people, 'We are the original Black Lives Matter'." | "This is why I say to people, 'We are the original Black Lives Matter'." |
| 'This is the struggle' | 'This is the struggle' |
| Yet both Christopher and Sheldon are keen for their children to create their own destinies. | Yet both Christopher and Sheldon are keen for their children to create their own destinies. |
| "I want them to know who they are, and I want them to focus on what it is that they want to do, like white parents, like Asian parents, like any other parents," Christopher says. | "I want them to know who they are, and I want them to focus on what it is that they want to do, like white parents, like Asian parents, like any other parents," Christopher says. |
| He adds that he rarely discusses the events of 1981 with his family. | He adds that he rarely discusses the events of 1981 with his family. |
| "I don't want them to just focus on black issues or black struggles. I don't want that to be something that they feel they have to carry." | "I don't want them to just focus on black issues or black struggles. I don't want that to be something that they feel they have to carry." |
| Yet all the children of that generation agree - Black Lives Matter is a necessary continuation of their generation's journey towards true racial equality. | Yet all the children of that generation agree - Black Lives Matter is a necessary continuation of their generation's journey towards true racial equality. |
| "This is the struggle and this has always been the struggle," Christopher says. | "This is the struggle and this has always been the struggle," Christopher says. |
| "Society may feel different. It may have taken a step towards where we need to go. I don't know if maybe a step is enough. | "Society may feel different. It may have taken a step towards where we need to go. I don't know if maybe a step is enough. |
| "We don't call them riots - we call them uprisings." | "We don't call them riots - we call them uprisings." |
| For Olga, stop and search - a huge issue for her contemporaries - is still a challenge for many young people today, including her son. | For Olga, stop and search - a huge issue for her contemporaries - is still a challenge for many young people today, including her son. |
| BBC archive shows the aftermath of first day of rioting in Brixton | BBC archive shows the aftermath of first day of rioting in Brixton |
| "Michael has been stopped by the police a few times, to the point where they would follow him home. | "Michael has been stopped by the police a few times, to the point where they would follow him home. |
| "If you think back from my experience where I've seen black boys just taken up off the streets and taken to the police station, I was just not having that for my son. | "If you think back from my experience where I've seen black boys just taken up off the streets and taken to the police station, I was just not having that for my son. |
| "It's changed. Society has changed. I don't hear anything about anybody's head being flushed down toilets. It's more subtle. | "It's changed. Society has changed. I don't hear anything about anybody's head being flushed down toilets. It's more subtle. |
| "But you still have the same sort of policing going on. For me, nothing has moved on as I had hoped it would. | "But you still have the same sort of policing going on. For me, nothing has moved on as I had hoped it would. |
| "Because if it had, then we wouldn't need Black Lives Matter." | "Because if it had, then we wouldn't need Black Lives Matter." |
| Racism 'not tolerated' | Racism 'not tolerated' |
| The Metropolitan Police says it is a completely different force to the one that policed Brixton 40 years ago. | The Metropolitan Police says it is a completely different force to the one that policed Brixton 40 years ago. |
| Its commissioner, Cressida Dick, has been instrumental in, they say, "personally improving the response to racist crime in London and enhancing the service we give to London's black community". | Its commissioner, Cressida Dick, has been instrumental in, they say, "personally improving the response to racist crime in London and enhancing the service we give to London's black community". |
| She has very clearly stated she will not tolerate racism within the force. | She has very clearly stated she will not tolerate racism within the force. |
| But for Sheldon, who took to the streets 40 years ago, the need for Black Lives Matter today, is evidence that true equality is still a work in progress. | But for Sheldon, who took to the streets 40 years ago, the need for Black Lives Matter today, is evidence that true equality is still a work in progress. |
| "What happened in 1981 needed to happen - but the inequality in society that existed in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s still exists today," he says. | "What happened in 1981 needed to happen - but the inequality in society that existed in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s still exists today," he says. |
| "That's the reason why we have to keep fighting every day." | "That's the reason why we have to keep fighting every day." |
| Christopher adds: "The legacy is that the work is still there and still needs to be done, and we still need to move this thing forward. | Christopher adds: "The legacy is that the work is still there and still needs to be done, and we still need to move this thing forward. |
| "And black lives still have to be said to matter." | "And black lives still have to be said to matter." |
| 'Brixton: Flames on the Frontline' is a new eight-episode podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live launched on BBC Sounds on 9 April. | 'Brixton: Flames on the Frontline' is a new eight-episode podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live launched on BBC Sounds on 9 April. |