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By Tom Geoghegan BBC News Magazine Young people in England will be forced to stay at school or in training until 18, under government plans. But is a post-16 education always the right path to success? Mostly yes, but three high achievers tell a different story.By Tom Geoghegan BBC News Magazine Young people in England will be forced to stay at school or in training until 18, under government plans. But is a post-16 education always the right path to success? Mostly yes, but three high achievers tell a different story.
MICHELLE DEWBERRY, 27MICHELLE DEWBERRY, 27
Ten years before finding fame in BBC Two's reality show the Apprentice, Miss Dewberry was a teenager with two GCSEs working three jobs to make ends meet.Ten years before finding fame in BBC Two's reality show the Apprentice, Miss Dewberry was a teenager with two GCSEs working three jobs to make ends meet.
"The only regret that I have about not paying attention in school is a lack of basic understanding in subjects like geography, which isn't necessarily a problem because I can Google anything."The only regret that I have about not paying attention in school is a lack of basic understanding in subjects like geography, which isn't necessarily a problem because I can Google anything.
"But when you have someone who wants to go off and be an entrepreneur, they're not interested in sitting in a classroom learning things they don't think are relevant.""But when you have someone who wants to go off and be an entrepreneur, they're not interested in sitting in a classroom learning things they don't think are relevant."
She joined a Youth Training Scheme with St John Ambulance, studied NVQs and worked her way up to account manager at one of Hull's biggest employers, before setting up her own offshore accounts business. It's something she has returned to since quitting the job she won with Sir Alan Sugar, in the Apprentice.She joined a Youth Training Scheme with St John Ambulance, studied NVQs and worked her way up to account manager at one of Hull's biggest employers, before setting up her own offshore accounts business. It's something she has returned to since quitting the job she won with Sir Alan Sugar, in the Apprentice.
Both Apprentice finalists left school earlyBoth Apprentice finalists left school early
Miss Dewberry believes people with ambitions to become a director or a chief executive are better suited to school than a person with great enterprise.Miss Dewberry believes people with ambitions to become a director or a chief executive are better suited to school than a person with great enterprise.
"School has a model and if you fit within it, you will do very well and achieve your results but there are exceptions to this rule and they're quite special and need to be dealt with in a different way.""School has a model and if you fit within it, you will do very well and achieve your results but there are exceptions to this rule and they're quite special and need to be dealt with in a different way."
She is a firm believer in practical education like NVQs and work experience placements, and under the government's plans, due to come into effect in 2013, training would be an option. But she says more big companies need to get involved and flexibility is crucialShe is a firm believer in practical education like NVQs and work experience placements, and under the government's plans, due to come into effect in 2013, training would be an option. But she says more big companies need to get involved and flexibility is crucial
She fears that forcing young people to be trained or educated until 18 could alienate the mavericks.She fears that forcing young people to be trained or educated until 18 could alienate the mavericks.
"Richard Branson left school to set up businesses in his bedroom or garage. If the government had quashed that kind of thing then we wouldn't have half the businesses we have now.""Richard Branson left school to set up businesses in his bedroom or garage. If the government had quashed that kind of thing then we wouldn't have half the businesses we have now."
For Miss Dewberry the same instinct that persuaded her to leave school early still burns brightly. Her enthusiasm in working for Sir Alan waned - "the excitement had disappeared" - when she was no longer her own boss.For Miss Dewberry the same instinct that persuaded her to leave school early still burns brightly. Her enthusiasm in working for Sir Alan waned - "the excitement had disappeared" - when she was no longer her own boss.
SIMON WOODROFFE, 54SIMON WOODROFFE, 54
Unlike Miss Dewberry, Simon Woodroffe attended an elite public school - Marlborough College. But that didn't stop him chucking in the old school tie aged 16, with two O Levels.Unlike Miss Dewberry, Simon Woodroffe attended an elite public school - Marlborough College. But that didn't stop him chucking in the old school tie aged 16, with two O Levels.
After what he describes as "a couple of years smoking dope", he began making his way in the music business, from roadie to stage designer, and his company designed the stage for Live Aid in 1985.After what he describes as "a couple of years smoking dope", he began making his way in the music business, from roadie to stage designer, and his company designed the stage for Live Aid in 1985.
Packing in music for food, he opened his first YO! Sushi restaurant in 1997 and the combination of Japanese food served up on conveyor belts proved irresistible to diners. It became an overnight phenomenon, the start of his expanding YO! business empire.Packing in music for food, he opened his first YO! Sushi restaurant in 1997 and the combination of Japanese food served up on conveyor belts proved irresistible to diners. It became an overnight phenomenon, the start of his expanding YO! business empire.
I had the right materials to get it togetherI had the right materials to get it together
"I left school then because I could. I never really got school and never fitted into it. I remember seeing reports saying 'try harder' and I was trying to think how to. I never engaged with it so leaving was the best thing for me at the time.""I left school then because I could. I never really got school and never fitted into it. I remember seeing reports saying 'try harder' and I was trying to think how to. I never engaged with it so leaving was the best thing for me at the time."
He thinks low self-esteem may have played a part in that decision but shortly afterwards he found the drive to succeed.He thinks low self-esteem may have played a part in that decision but shortly afterwards he found the drive to succeed.
"What drove me was I didn't have anything to fall back on. I had a fear of what could go wrong. I had been brought up with reasonably high aspirations. My father was a senior officer in the Army and maybe I thought I could be a success like him. I had the right materials to get it together.""What drove me was I didn't have anything to fall back on. I had a fear of what could go wrong. I had been brought up with reasonably high aspirations. My father was a senior officer in the Army and maybe I thought I could be a success like him. I had the right materials to get it together."
While Mr Woodroffe acknowledges there are many successful entrepreneurs who opted out of formal schooling he would not recommend it.While Mr Woodroffe acknowledges there are many successful entrepreneurs who opted out of formal schooling he would not recommend it.
Give kids enthusiasm, says WoodroffeGive kids enthusiasm, says Woodroffe
Education and motivation are too complex to be governed by Westminster, he thinks, and would like to see more autonomy at a local level about what is best for individual pupils, whether that be a lecture to 100 students or a one-on-one.Education and motivation are too complex to be governed by Westminster, he thinks, and would like to see more autonomy at a local level about what is best for individual pupils, whether that be a lecture to 100 students or a one-on-one.
"If there's one thing to give kids it's enthusiasm and passion and we have to get business, in the widest possible sense, to open their doors to the fun bits and let them see work can be a lot of fun.""If there's one thing to give kids it's enthusiasm and passion and we have to get business, in the widest possible sense, to open their doors to the fun bits and let them see work can be a lot of fun."
There are already positive moves in schools to accept practical careers like car mechanics and hairdressing on a level with traditional subjects like history, he says.There are already positive moves in schools to accept practical careers like car mechanics and hairdressing on a level with traditional subjects like history, he says.
So how did his experience of education affect his daughter Charlotte, now 17? She took six months out before her GCSEs and that time stimulated her to learn.So how did his experience of education affect his daughter Charlotte, now 17? She took six months out before her GCSEs and that time stimulated her to learn.
"I would say to her 'don't bother with homework, go and party' and she would say 'no, you are an irresponsible dad'."I would say to her 'don't bother with homework, go and party' and she would say 'no, you are an irresponsible dad'.
"I've been very free and open with her and she's become independent and self-motivated. She works hard, parties hard. What I was doing was personally educating her.""I've been very free and open with her and she's become independent and self-motivated. She works hard, parties hard. What I was doing was personally educating her."
MICHELLE MONE, 35MICHELLE MONE, 35
From a hard upbringing in the east end of Glasgow to running a huge lingerie company attracting the likes of Julia Roberts and Jade Jagger, Ms Mone's is a classic rags to riches story.From a hard upbringing in the east end of Glasgow to running a huge lingerie company attracting the likes of Julia Roberts and Jade Jagger, Ms Mone's is a classic rags to riches story.
An only child after losing her brother, she left school at 15 with no qualifications, partly to help her mother because her father was confined to a wheelchair. She also felt she was not getting anywhere at school and wanted to get into business.An only child after losing her brother, she left school at 15 with no qualifications, partly to help her mother because her father was confined to a wheelchair. She also felt she was not getting anywhere at school and wanted to get into business.
Degrees don't guarantee successAfter telling a "white lie" about her education, she eventually got a junior job at Labatts Brewers and became director of Scotland within three years. But it was at a function with her husband that she came up with the idea that transformed her life - the Ultimo bra, which puts special emphasis on comfort.Degrees don't guarantee successAfter telling a "white lie" about her education, she eventually got a junior job at Labatts Brewers and became director of Scotland within three years. But it was at a function with her husband that she came up with the idea that transformed her life - the Ultimo bra, which puts special emphasis on comfort.
"There was no other way for me but to leave school when I did. I had nothing to lose, coming from a tenement."There was no other way for me but to leave school when I did. I had nothing to lose, coming from a tenement.
"My husband was different, he went to university and I want my three kids to go to university, but it wasn't for me.""My husband was different, he went to university and I want my three kids to go to university, but it wasn't for me."
Ms Mone believes any moves to extend the school leaving age to 18 requires proper training initiatives and ways to keep children interested.Ms Mone believes any moves to extend the school leaving age to 18 requires proper training initiatives and ways to keep children interested.
"As long as the youngsters are determined and have passion they can do anything they want. Without that drive they won't get anywhere in life."As long as the youngsters are determined and have passion they can do anything they want. Without that drive they won't get anywhere in life.
"Education is important of course but you can have the most degrees but without the drive you won't succeed.""Education is important of course but you can have the most degrees but without the drive you won't succeed."
Ms Mone speaks in schools when she can, to inspire pupils, and she thinks many need to be taught about the hard reality of employment.Ms Mone speaks in schools when she can, to inspire pupils, and she thinks many need to be taught about the hard reality of employment.
"The youngsters think the world owes them a living and don't want to put in the hard work. Few are willing to work because they don't have the drive and determination.""The youngsters think the world owes them a living and don't want to put in the hard work. Few are willing to work because they don't have the drive and determination."

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Add your comments on this story, using the form below.
Despite leaving school early, the three featured 'high achievers' all talk of the benefits of some further training, whether it be academic or vocational (NVQs etc.) Further training in the field that interests you can only be beneficial, no matter what type of qualification you get. Appropriate qualifications in your chosen field strengthen your position for future jobs and should not be dismissed lightly.Rachel, SwanseaDespite leaving school early, the three featured 'high achievers' all talk of the benefits of some further training, whether it be academic or vocational (NVQs etc.) Further training in the field that interests you can only be beneficial, no matter what type of qualification you get. Appropriate qualifications in your chosen field strengthen your position for future jobs and should not be dismissed lightly.Rachel, Swansea
I agree with all three members of the panel. Basically, kids are all different and they need to be encouraged to find their own way. Good grades don't mean that you will succeed in life and university isn't for everybody. CS Zeng, Tunbridge Wells, KentI agree with all three members of the panel. Basically, kids are all different and they need to be encouraged to find their own way. Good grades don't mean that you will succeed in life and university isn't for everybody. CS Zeng, Tunbridge Wells, Kent
Surely the three successful examples presented here are exceptional. Degrees don't necessarily guarantee success, agreed, but leaving school at a very young age without any qualifications whatsoever is highly unfortunate indeed for society as a whole, as considerable personal development occurs between the ages of 16 and 18.Nick, Amsterdam, NLSurely the three successful examples presented here are exceptional. Degrees don't necessarily guarantee success, agreed, but leaving school at a very young age without any qualifications whatsoever is highly unfortunate indeed for society as a whole, as considerable personal development occurs between the ages of 16 and 18.Nick, Amsterdam, NL
While it is true that degrees do not guarantee great wealth, or high salaries, or any of the conventional methods of measuring a person's success, I think no-one who has attended an institution of higher education, particularly a reputable one, will disagree with me when I say that there is no monetary value that you can place on the subtleties of education and personal growth in a collegiate environment. There is something very special and magical about that time and place, where so many young minds inspire one another and build a camaraderie and closeness around trying to find their place and purpose in the world.Rohit, LondonWhile it is true that degrees do not guarantee great wealth, or high salaries, or any of the conventional methods of measuring a person's success, I think no-one who has attended an institution of higher education, particularly a reputable one, will disagree with me when I say that there is no monetary value that you can place on the subtleties of education and personal growth in a collegiate environment. There is something very special and magical about that time and place, where so many young minds inspire one another and build a camaraderie and closeness around trying to find their place and purpose in the world.Rohit, London
I had the idea that I should get qualifications drummed into me from the beginning of my school life. I now have numerous qualifications, but I did not learn anything useful in getting them. I wish I had had the guts to branch out on my own and become my own boss. To anyone else out there thinking along the same lines, you have to ask yourself, what do these qualifications really get you? Do they get you anything that pure hard work won't? The answer is pretty clear.Heather, WolverhamptonI had the idea that I should get qualifications drummed into me from the beginning of my school life. I now have numerous qualifications, but I did not learn anything useful in getting them. I wish I had had the guts to branch out on my own and become my own boss. To anyone else out there thinking along the same lines, you have to ask yourself, what do these qualifications really get you? Do they get you anything that pure hard work won't? The answer is pretty clear.Heather, Wolverhampton
Of course a post-16 education is not ALWAYS the right path to success, but this article seems to be trying to convey the notion that qualifications are not relevant to success. The three people who feature in the article were successful despite not having qualifications, not because of it. The vast majority of people who are successful have advanced education - this should be encouraged.Julian, LondonOf course a post-16 education is not ALWAYS the right path to success, but this article seems to be trying to convey the notion that qualifications are not relevant to success. The three people who feature in the article were successful despite not having qualifications, not because of it. The vast majority of people who are successful have advanced education - this should be encouraged.Julian, London
Yes I'm sure it's great for the entrepreneur to leave school whenever. As I understand it the new rules mean you can go off and do a job at 16 as long as it has some training attached to it. We know people who have left school in the past four years with no qualifications and have done a few weeks here and there with agencies. The rest of the time they claim benefits. These are the people that need the help and the new rules are looking to help.Brandie, SuffolkYes I'm sure it's great for the entrepreneur to leave school whenever. As I understand it the new rules mean you can go off and do a job at 16 as long as it has some training attached to it. We know people who have left school in the past four years with no qualifications and have done a few weeks here and there with agencies. The rest of the time they claim benefits. These are the people that need the help and the new rules are looking to help.Brandie, Suffolk
Education is very important, but the individual is more so. People should have a flexibility to learn what interests them or what they think is important to them. We are taught what the curriculum teaches us to teach. I'd like to work with conservation, but most conservation is gone or voluntary work I cannot pay bills on voluntary work. I would like to carry on but there is no support in this even if children stayed on at school its always the same maths English I.T. skills which are important but I want to learn practical skills and look after our god given planet. But that's not essential to the economy of the world it does not matter if we we destroy the planet as long as we got an A grade maths and become a banker, it will keep the kids of the streets, but ask them what they want to learn and let them excel in something. ajcbristol, bristolEducation is very important, but the individual is more so. People should have a flexibility to learn what interests them or what they think is important to them. We are taught what the curriculum teaches us to teach. I'd like to work with conservation, but most conservation is gone or voluntary work I cannot pay bills on voluntary work. I would like to carry on but there is no support in this even if children stayed on at school its always the same maths English I.T. skills which are important but I want to learn practical skills and look after our god given planet. But that's not essential to the economy of the world it does not matter if we we destroy the planet as long as we got an A grade maths and become a banker, it will keep the kids of the streets, but ask them what they want to learn and let them excel in something. ajcbristol, bristol
Fair play to them... but what about the countless others stuck in mind numbing jobs? Three success stories is hardly a representative sample of the "achievements" gained from leaving school early... Neil, Stansted, UKFair play to them... but what about the countless others stuck in mind numbing jobs? Three success stories is hardly a representative sample of the "achievements" gained from leaving school early... Neil, Stansted, UK
I'm not sure one can compare Michelle Dewberry with the other two drop-out examples. She sounds like a misfit and a quitter, who landed on her feet by luck rather than merit. Of course there are examples of high achievers who left school at 16, but I think you would find a lot more who stayed in education longer.Henry, London, UKI'm not sure one can compare Michelle Dewberry with the other two drop-out examples. She sounds like a misfit and a quitter, who landed on her feet by luck rather than merit. Of course there are examples of high achievers who left school at 16, but I think you would find a lot more who stayed in education longer.Henry, London, UK
Keeping everyone in school until later will just frustrate those who want to work hard and are interested, as those being forced to will simply become less interested and more disruptive as time goes on. Rachel, OxfordKeeping everyone in school until later will just frustrate those who want to work hard and are interested, as those being forced to will simply become less interested and more disruptive as time goes on. Rachel, Oxford
My most valuable work experience was between leaving school at 16 & 18 years of age. I learned the value of on the job learning & went on to study at a Polytechnic. I am still into lifelong learning 35 years on.....Ron L., Portsmouth UK.My most valuable work experience was between leaving school at 16 & 18 years of age. I learned the value of on the job learning & went on to study at a Polytechnic. I am still into lifelong learning 35 years on.....Ron L., Portsmouth UK.
I left school at the age of 15, and opened up my exam results on my 16th birthday - just two GCSE's. I never seemed to 'fit' at school, and so felt I should leave. I then just got jobs and worked in a field that interested me (I.T.) to the point where I ended up earning more money than friend of the same age that went through university.People to this day assume that I've had university education just because they don't see me as a 'loser' who dropped out of school at a young age. I just know it's going to spark a very interesting conversation with my new family to-be (I'm getting married this year) when they find out that I quit school at such a young age!Geoff Marshall, Charleston, SC, USAI left school at the age of 15, and opened up my exam results on my 16th birthday - just two GCSE's. I never seemed to 'fit' at school, and so felt I should leave. I then just got jobs and worked in a field that interested me (I.T.) to the point where I ended up earning more money than friend of the same age that went through university.People to this day assume that I've had university education just because they don't see me as a 'loser' who dropped out of school at a young age. I just know it's going to spark a very interesting conversation with my new family to-be (I'm getting married this year) when they find out that I quit school at such a young age!Geoff Marshall, Charleston, SC, USA
Many people find the school environment stifling, and many schools (especially the 'faith' based ones) suppress free though and self expression among their pupils. By the age of 16 you should be free to choose your own path in life.Franchesca Mullin, Belfast, NIMany people find the school environment stifling, and many schools (especially the 'faith' based ones) suppress free though and self expression among their pupils. By the age of 16 you should be free to choose your own path in life.Franchesca Mullin, Belfast, NI
I have a degree, secretarial, proof reading and software use qualifications and speak German fluently as well as my mother tongue of English. However I'm still stuck working as an administrator. Education doesn't get you everywhere and I sometimes wish I had more experience and less bits of useless paper.Danie Jones, Cambridge, EnglandI have a degree, secretarial, proof reading and software use qualifications and speak German fluently as well as my mother tongue of English. However I'm still stuck working as an administrator. Education doesn't get you everywhere and I sometimes wish I had more experience and less bits of useless paper.Danie Jones, Cambridge, England
I took my GCSEs at the age of 15, and decided to go into further education, but after a year of sixth form, and having earning 2 GCSEs & 1 GNVQ, I left and walked straight into employment. Now 11 years on, I am in my 3rd long term job, (both previous lasting just under 5 years each), and having had a multitude of short term jobs (each lasting a month or less), I find that I am in a far better position, than people I went to school with who earned 6 or more GCSEs and went onto College/University. I now have the equivalent of 8 GCSEs, as I was able to take courses while at work. Hazz, Dudley (UK)I took my GCSEs at the age of 15, and decided to go into further education, but after a year of sixth form, and having earning 2 GCSEs & 1 GNVQ, I left and walked straight into employment. Now 11 years on, I am in my 3rd long term job, (both previous lasting just under 5 years each), and having had a multitude of short term jobs (each lasting a month or less), I find that I am in a far better position, than people I went to school with who earned 6 or more GCSEs and went onto College/University. I now have the equivalent of 8 GCSEs, as I was able to take courses while at work. Hazz, Dudley (UK)
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