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| Is Britain really like The Wire? | Is Britain really like The Wire? |
| (about 1 hour later) | |
| By Mark Yates BBC News | By Mark Yates BBC News |
| It's a TV series featuring murderous villains, cynical politicians and corrupt, lazy detectives. Fans of The Wire say it's a realistic portrayal of American poverty, violence and hopelessness. But what, if anything, do the mean streets of Baltimore, Maryland, have to do with Britain? | |
| The Shadow Home Secretary, Chris Grayling, says that parts of Manchester, Liverpool and London have similar problems of violent gang culture. | |
| Above you can see how Baltimore compares with the cities of Liverpool and Manchester on a number of key crime measures. Below, we asked three people with first-hand experience of these areas what they thought. | |
| THE BRITISH FORMER GANG MEMBER | THE BRITISH FORMER GANG MEMBER |
| Tony Winter says 'no go' areas don't exist in the UK | Tony Winter says 'no go' areas don't exist in the UK |
| Tony Winter was a drug dealer and heroin addict in Moss Side in Manchester. He served 12 years in prison for various crimes, including possession of firearms and violence. | Tony Winter was a drug dealer and heroin addict in Moss Side in Manchester. He served 12 years in prison for various crimes, including possession of firearms and violence. |
| He said of Mr Grayling's comments: "Of course at first glance it sounds preposterous. But I think what he was getting at was the feel of some areas of the country." | He said of Mr Grayling's comments: "Of course at first glance it sounds preposterous. But I think what he was getting at was the feel of some areas of the country." |
| But Tony said you could not compare the scale of the problem in the two countries. | But Tony said you could not compare the scale of the problem in the two countries. |
| "When Moss Side was at its worse there was maybe only a dozen streets either side of the main road where there was pressure. | "When Moss Side was at its worse there was maybe only a dozen streets either side of the main road where there was pressure. |
| "I have seen bits of The Wire. It seems to me like a lot of chasing and shooting. That's not what I experienced. I don't think it happens like that. It wasn't like everybody was hiding in their homes all the time." | "I have seen bits of The Wire. It seems to me like a lot of chasing and shooting. That's not what I experienced. I don't think it happens like that. It wasn't like everybody was hiding in their homes all the time." |
| Tony now works with an organisation called Street Pastors to stop young people turning to crime. | Tony now works with an organisation called Street Pastors to stop young people turning to crime. |
| "I wasn't a gang leader as such. I just had a little crew who sold drugs for me. | "I wasn't a gang leader as such. I just had a little crew who sold drugs for me. |
| I have seen bits of The Wire. It seems to me like a lot of chasing and shooting. That's not what I experienced Tony Winter, ex-gang member Parts of Britain 'like The Wire' class="" href="/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/8221231.stm">Anger at Tory's Wire comparison | |
| "Back then people realised there was money to be made in dealing, then the dealers started getting robbed so the gangs were formed so people could protect their money. | "Back then people realised there was money to be made in dealing, then the dealers started getting robbed so the gangs were formed so people could protect their money. |
| "At the time I didn't think there was any hope, any happy ending for me. But my faith gave me hope. | "At the time I didn't think there was any hope, any happy ending for me. But my faith gave me hope. |
| "Because I was a drugs supplier I could move around freely between different parts of Manchester. There are kids in areas like Longsight and Moss Side who feel they can't do that. I am not sure how true that is but it's the perception, people talk themselves into there being a problem. | "Because I was a drugs supplier I could move around freely between different parts of Manchester. There are kids in areas like Longsight and Moss Side who feel they can't do that. I am not sure how true that is but it's the perception, people talk themselves into there being a problem. |
| "There aren't any no-go areas. It's not like America." | "There aren't any no-go areas. It's not like America." |
| THE BALTIMORE EX-GANGSTER | |
| Ted Sutton says gangster life in Baltimore is worse than on TV | |
| Ted Sutton joined a gang at the age of 14 and for the next decade watched people around him die in some of Baltimore's roughest districts. | Ted Sutton joined a gang at the age of 14 and for the next decade watched people around him die in some of Baltimore's roughest districts. |
| He said: "I got caught up with a rough crowd, I started carrying a gun, then a shorn-off shotgun. I felt I belonged but I didn't know the price you paid for life on the streets. | He said: "I got caught up with a rough crowd, I started carrying a gun, then a shorn-off shotgun. I felt I belonged but I didn't know the price you paid for life on the streets. |
| "I got into my early 20s - then bad things started to happen all around me. My best friend died in my arms, he was gunned down. Another friend got a life sentence plus 20 years in prison. He'll never be out. | |
| "My other friend was paralysed from the neck down by a bullet. Someone else got through $175,000 of crack cocaine in a year. | "My other friend was paralysed from the neck down by a bullet. Someone else got through $175,000 of crack cocaine in a year. |
| "That same year my girlfriend died of cancer." | "That same year my girlfriend died of cancer." |
| Ted thinks that there are up to 3,000 people involved in gangs in Baltimore at any one time. And he's trying to help them change their lives. | Ted thinks that there are up to 3,000 people involved in gangs in Baltimore at any one time. And he's trying to help them change their lives. |
| He said: "I was looking at a 15 year sentence for something I didn't do - instead of for all the things I did do wrong. | He said: "I was looking at a 15 year sentence for something I didn't do - instead of for all the things I did do wrong. |
| [The Wire] has done an injustice to us and to Baltimore Ted Sutton, ex-gangster | |
| "But the judge dismissed all the charges. I went on to get two Masters degrees. I was given a second chance, most people aren't going to get that." | "But the judge dismissed all the charges. I went on to get two Masters degrees. I was given a second chance, most people aren't going to get that." |
| Ted thinks The Wire has been a mixed blessing for his city. | Ted thinks The Wire has been a mixed blessing for his city. |
| He said: "It's done an injustice to us and to Baltimore. It's glorified that lifestyle but it has let the world know how it went down." | He said: "It's done an injustice to us and to Baltimore. It's glorified that lifestyle but it has let the world know how it went down." |
| Ted said the life of gang members is even worse that portrayed in The Wire: "Along with the money comes all the legal issues - we weren't out partying all the time. You always had to watch your back." | Ted said the life of gang members is even worse that portrayed in The Wire: "Along with the money comes all the legal issues - we weren't out partying all the time. You always had to watch your back." |
| And he rejected the idea that some young people had no choice but to join gangs. | And he rejected the idea that some young people had no choice but to join gangs. |
| "I don't ever feel that people are forced to join gangs but if you are not strong then you will join. The problem is the kids' reality has been twisted. | "I don't ever feel that people are forced to join gangs but if you are not strong then you will join. The problem is the kids' reality has been twisted. |
| "They think that if you get good grades you are a nerd, or if you put your hand up in class you are a punk. | "They think that if you get good grades you are a nerd, or if you put your hand up in class you are a punk. |
| "We are trying to change that." | "We are trying to change that." |
| THE CRIME EXPERT | THE CRIME EXPERT |
| John Pitts is Professor of Criminology at the University of Bedfordshire and has watched The Wire. | John Pitts is Professor of Criminology at the University of Bedfordshire and has watched The Wire. |
| He said: "It's not a fit comparison at all". | He said: "It's not a fit comparison at all". |
| He pointed out that last year Baltimore had nearly five times the murders committed in Manchester. | |
| Professor Pitts helped the former Conservative leader, Iain Duncan Smith, produce a report on gang violence, called Dying To Belong. | Professor Pitts helped the former Conservative leader, Iain Duncan Smith, produce a report on gang violence, called Dying To Belong. |
| He said: "It's interesting that Chris Grayling doesn't appear to have read that, otherwise he wouldn't have said what he said." | He said: "It's interesting that Chris Grayling doesn't appear to have read that, otherwise he wouldn't have said what he said." |
| The Professor said gang culture in the US and the UK were not comparable: "They are different worlds, the discrepancy between wealth and poverty are different in the two countries. | The Professor said gang culture in the US and the UK were not comparable: "They are different worlds, the discrepancy between wealth and poverty are different in the two countries. |
| There some are gangs in Britain, but then there are a lot of wannabes Prof John Pitts, crime expert | |
| "We are talking about a very different country with very different forms of crime", he said. | "We are talking about a very different country with very different forms of crime", he said. |
| But he did add that, for some people living in certain parts of Britain, the experience could be similar. | But he did add that, for some people living in certain parts of Britain, the experience could be similar. |
| "Inevitably gang and drug crime affect many more people in the US. | "Inevitably gang and drug crime affect many more people in the US. |
| "I think if you live in an area of the UK where there is drug dealing and firearms crime then you are in a state of constant anxiety. | "I think if you live in an area of the UK where there is drug dealing and firearms crime then you are in a state of constant anxiety. |
| "And it depends who you are, I am an older white man I can go where I like, but if I was a young black man in the wrong place at the wrong time I could be in a lot of trouble." | "And it depends who you are, I am an older white man I can go where I like, but if I was a young black man in the wrong place at the wrong time I could be in a lot of trouble." |
| "Young black women are also vulnerable on certain housing estates." | "Young black women are also vulnerable on certain housing estates." |
| Professor Pitts said, the gangs were very different in the US and UK. | Professor Pitts said, the gangs were very different in the US and UK. |
| "There some are gangs in Britain, but then there are a lot of wannabes. | "There some are gangs in Britain, but then there are a lot of wannabes. |
| "But initiation ceremonies, gang charters, these things don't exist here. American gang membership goes back 50 or more years. I don't think we are going that way." | "But initiation ceremonies, gang charters, these things don't exist here. American gang membership goes back 50 or more years. I don't think we are going that way." |