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| Version 2 | Version 3 |
|---|---|
| Customers 'blamed for card fraud' | Customers 'blamed for card fraud' |
| (4 days later) | |
| Consumer groups are calling for banks to change their approach to card fraud when a customer's Pin has been used after the theft of a purse or wallet. | Consumer groups are calling for banks to change their approach to card fraud when a customer's Pin has been used after the theft of a purse or wallet. |
| Banks usually reimburse fraud victims, unless the customer acted fraudulently or without "reasonable care". | Banks usually reimburse fraud victims, unless the customer acted fraudulently or without "reasonable care". |
| But some banks are now turning down claims, saying customers must have left a copy of the Pin with their card. | But some banks are now turning down claims, saying customers must have left a copy of the Pin with their card. |
| The banking industry says Chip and Pin is secure and each dispute is judged on its own merits. | The banking industry says Chip and Pin is secure and each dispute is judged on its own merits. |
| Richard Elphick, a chartered surveyor, told Radio 4's Money Box he had his wallet stolen while he was eating outside a central London restaurant in July. | Richard Elphick, a chartered surveyor, told Radio 4's Money Box he had his wallet stolen while he was eating outside a central London restaurant in July. |
| Although he cancelled his cards within the hour, the thief still had time to withdraw £100 cash from an ATM using his Natwest credit card, and make other purchases and withdrawals using his Natwest debit card. In total the fraud came to £2,300. | Although he cancelled his cards within the hour, the thief still had time to withdraw £100 cash from an ATM using his Natwest credit card, and make other purchases and withdrawals using his Natwest debit card. In total the fraud came to £2,300. |
| Question of liability | Question of liability |
| Natwest refunded the £100 Mr Elphick lost on his credit card, saying that as he had used the card that day it was credible his Pin might have been observed. | Natwest refunded the £100 Mr Elphick lost on his credit card, saying that as he had used the card that day it was credible his Pin might have been observed. |
| But it refused to repay the money taken from his debit card, arguing there had been no explanation for how the Pin number became known to the fraudster. | But it refused to repay the money taken from his debit card, arguing there had been no explanation for how the Pin number became known to the fraudster. |
| "Mr Elphick's debit card had not been used for 13 days prior to the theft," said Natwest. | "Mr Elphick's debit card had not been used for 13 days prior to the theft," said Natwest. |
| "His exact debit card Pin was successfully used for all the fraudulent transactions. We can only conclude that Mr Elphick kept a record of his debit card Pin in his wallet." | "His exact debit card Pin was successfully used for all the fraudulent transactions. We can only conclude that Mr Elphick kept a record of his debit card Pin in his wallet." |
| But Mr Elphick emphatically denies his Pin number was in his wallet. | But Mr Elphick emphatically denies his Pin number was in his wallet. |
| Richard Elphick wants Natwest to refund the stolen money | Richard Elphick wants Natwest to refund the stolen money |
| "They weren't written down anywhere and I don't know how anyone could get access to them," he said. | "They weren't written down anywhere and I don't know how anyone could get access to them," he said. |
| "It makes no sense to me at all, the rules should be the same for both." | "It makes no sense to me at all, the rules should be the same for both." |
| The Banking Code says a customer is only liable for the first £50 in cases like this, unless the bank can prove the customer acted fraudulently, or "without reasonable care." | The Banking Code says a customer is only liable for the first £50 in cases like this, unless the bank can prove the customer acted fraudulently, or "without reasonable care." |
| The banking umbrella group, the UK Payments Administration, agrees that its members must abide by the code. | The banking umbrella group, the UK Payments Administration, agrees that its members must abide by the code. |
| "The bank or card company must be able to demonstrate that the customer has either been negligent with their cards details, or that they are a knowing party to the fraud, before turning down a customer's fraud claim." | "The bank or card company must be able to demonstrate that the customer has either been negligent with their cards details, or that they are a knowing party to the fraud, before turning down a customer's fraud claim." |
| Cathy Neal from the consumer organisation Which? believes banks need to rethink how they interpret these guidelines. | Cathy Neal from the consumer organisation Which? believes banks need to rethink how they interpret these guidelines. |
| "There are just too many cases like this for it to be people actually being careless," she said. | "There are just too many cases like this for it to be people actually being careless," she said. |
| "If people are saying they haven't been careless, you have to call into question the kind of proof that they're using." | "If people are saying they haven't been careless, you have to call into question the kind of proof that they're using." |
| Chip and Pin security expert Stephen Murdoch from the University of Cambridge believes there are a variety of ways fraudsters could obtain Pins, from compromising Pin entry devices in shops to bank staff divulging customer details. | Chip and Pin security expert Stephen Murdoch from the University of Cambridge believes there are a variety of ways fraudsters could obtain Pins, from compromising Pin entry devices in shops to bank staff divulging customer details. |
| Natwest insists it is not possible for a fraudster to read the Pin on any of their cards, nor for their staff to ever know someone's Pin number. | Natwest insists it is not possible for a fraudster to read the Pin on any of their cards, nor for their staff to ever know someone's Pin number. |
| BBC Radio 4's Money Box is broadcast on Saturdays at 12 noon, and repeated on Sundays at 2100h. Download the podcast. |