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Will MPs accept expenses reforms? Will MPs accept expenses reforms?
(about 6 hours later)
By Emma Griffiths BBC News websiteBy Emma Griffiths BBC News website
Months after the expenses furore, the findings of an independent inquiry are to be published - but will they be watered down or will MPs accept them in full? Sir Christopher Kelly's six-month inquiry into MPs' expenses has published its proposals to overhaul the system - but could they be watered down?
Will Sir Christopher's proposals be accepted?Will Sir Christopher's proposals be accepted?
If the leaks are accurate, MPs will on Wednesday be told they should no longer claim for mortgage payments, employ relatives or get such large "golden goodbyes" when they step down. At the launch of the report, Sir Christopher noted the possibility that, as time goes on and public anger at expenses claims fade, "some may be thinking of distancing themselves from their earlier expressed determination to implement our report in full".
But the House of Commons has been reluctant to accept expenses reforms in the past - rejecting many of the recommendations of one of their own committees last year - so will this time be any different? On Wednesday Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg told the Telegraph all parties needed to come together "and say that we were going to adopt the Kelly proposals lock, stock and barrel".
Some MPs have already made clear how concerned they were about the proposals from Sir Christopher Kelly's independent committee, leaked last week. Tory leader David Cameron said it was important "we do accept in full Sir Christopher Kelly's report". Gordon Brown said "we should accept the Kelly recommendations and make sure they are implemented as quickly as possible".
'Ludicrous' 'Wriggle room'
Tory MP Roger Gale suggested Sir Christopher was "not living in the real world" and said reports that MPs with constituency homes an hour from London would not be allowed to claim for a second home were "absolutely ludicrous". They all appeared to be in agreement - but does that mean the reforms will go through in their entirety?
Labour's Sir Stuart Bell told the BBC existing mortgage arrangements "cannot be disturbed" and that he did not think MPs would "accept any enforced redundancies of present staff". Not necessarily, because Mr Brown also said it would be for the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) to take forward the proposals - on Monday his spokesman said IPSA could "shape" them further.
Commons leader Harriet Harman has said MPs will not get a vote on the matter and it will go to the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA). Sir Christopher told the BBC he was "mystified" by that comment and said he was only "fairly reassured" by the leaders' comments: "There is always wriggle room, we are talking about politicians after all."
It seems to me to be quite dangerous to change the three principles Norman Baker LEAKED PROPOSALS MPs to claim for rent not mortgagesBan on employing relativesReduced resettlement grantsCommercial agency to find MPs flatsCapital gains to be repaidLondon Weighting reduced class="" href="/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8341431.stm">MPs' mortgage claims 'should end' class="" href="/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8341932.stm">At-a-glance: Expenses proposals
But then she told the BBC it would not be "fair" if the 200 or so MPs who already employed relatives were suddenly forced to sack them - and said MPs must have the resources to work both in their constituencies and in Westminster. The House of Commons has been reluctant to accept expenses reforms in the past - rejecting many of the recommendations of one of their own committees last year - so will this time be any different?
The interview fuelled suggestions that MPs may seek to water down the proposals. MPs will not get a vote on the reforms - but IPSA will now carry out a period of consultation on them, which will also consider MPs' concerns.
Tory MP Roger Gale has already said that while "a huge amount... is very good" some proposals do not stand up to "close scrutiny": "It is the devil in the detail which does actually need to be examined."
As she outlined the findings on Wednesday, Commons leader Harriet Harman said the Kelly report "should be taken as a whole" - but in response to concerns about the ban on employing relatives said IPSA must not "fall foul of employment law".
Her comments to the BBC at the weekend that it would not be "fair" if the 200 or so MPs who already employed relatives were suddenly forced to sack them fuelled suggestions that MPs may seek to water down the proposals.
'Extend the pain'
Lib Dem MP Norman Baker, a campaigner for transparency on MPs' expenses, told the BBC it was incumbent on MPs to accept Sir Christopher's main recommendations - despite Parliament being "horrified in some quarters".Lib Dem MP Norman Baker, a campaigner for transparency on MPs' expenses, told the BBC it was incumbent on MPs to accept Sir Christopher's main recommendations - despite Parliament being "horrified in some quarters".
He said the reported three main principles - that MPs do not employ relatives, do not claim for mortgage interest and, within a certain area around London, do not claim for second homes at all - should be "inviolate".
"It seems to me to be quite dangerous to change the three principles," he said.
No guarantees
If they were not adopted "all that happens is MPs will extend the pain and the issue will be drawn out longer than it needs to be".If they were not adopted "all that happens is MPs will extend the pain and the issue will be drawn out longer than it needs to be".
What we've always needed from Parliament is direct access to official information, not a new quango Heather Brooke
But he added there may be some "wrinkles", such as how you calculate travel times between Westminster and constituency homes, that needed ironing out.But he added there may be some "wrinkles", such as how you calculate travel times between Westminster and constituency homes, that needed ironing out.
Although political leaders have agreed that the old system needs to change there is no cast-iron guarantee the conclusions of Sir Christopher Kelly's independent review will come into force. Political leaders have agreed that the old system needs to change and Mr Brown, Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg agreed to back the proposals if they meet three tests of improving transparency, accountability and reducing costs.
LEAKED PROPOSALS MPs to claim for rent not mortgagesBan on employing relativesBan on MPs near London claiming for second homeEnd to £25-a-day subsistence claimsReduced resettlement grantsReduced travel claims class="" href="/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8330020.stm">MPs 'facing major expenses cuts' class="" href="/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8176930.stm">MPs expenses: What might change? Sir Christopher said on Wednesday those tests had clearly been met - but already there are questions about requiring MPs to rent, rather than claiming for mortgage interest.
Gordon Brown, David Cameron and Nick Clegg have welcomed the review and have agreed to back the proposals if they meet three tests of improving transparency, accountability and reducing costs. In a debate shadow Commons leader Sir George Young said the proposals on rent "would need to be monitored by IPSA to ensure that the overall package is not more expensive than it is at the moment" - to murmurs of agreement from MPs.
But the government has reiterated that it will be up to the IPSA to make any changes to the existing regime - and that it will be able to "shape" Sir Christopher's proposals. MPs' groans
The authority itself has an interim chief executive but does not yet have a chairman or board and is not due to be up and running until next spring. IPSA itself has an interim chief executive and its "chairman designate" was announced as Professor Sir Ian Kennedy. It was also announced he could be paid up to £100,000 a year - to loud groans from MPs.
According to its own website, is only "obliged ... to consult [Sir Christopher's] committee when developing its allowances scheme". According to its own website, it is only "obliged ... to consult [Sir Christopher's] committee when developing its allowances scheme".
Some are concerned about the role of the new body - set up by emergency legislation before the summer recess.Some are concerned about the role of the new body - set up by emergency legislation before the summer recess.
'New quango' Ms Harman's BBC interview fuelled rumours of watering down
Heather Brooke, who helped force the disclosure of MPs' expenses after a lengthy Freedom of Information battle, said the IPSA had been created "at the whim of ministers with no information given to the public about its funding or operation".Heather Brooke, who helped force the disclosure of MPs' expenses after a lengthy Freedom of Information battle, said the IPSA had been created "at the whim of ministers with no information given to the public about its funding or operation".
She told the BBC: "What we've always needed from Parliament is direct access to official information, not a new quango which upholds the old belief that the public can't be trusted to know how their MP spends public money. "She told the BBC: "What we've always needed from Parliament is direct access to official information, not a new quango which upholds the old belief that the public can't be trusted to know how their MP spends public money. "
The IPSA's chairman and board members will be approved by a new committee of MPs, headed by Speaker John Bercow, which includes three Labour MPs Sir Stuart Bell, Don Touhig and Liz Blackman, Conservative Sir George Young and Lib Dem Nick Harvey. The IPSA's chairman and board members will be approved by a new committee of MPs, headed by Speaker John Bercow, which includes three Labour MPs - Sir Stuart Bell, Don Touhig and Liz Blackman, Conservative Sir George Young and Lib Dem Nick Harvey.
Ms Harman's BBC interview fuelled rumours of watering down
But some concerns were expressed when that committee was announced last week.But some concerns were expressed when that committee was announced last week.
Independent MP Bob Spink asked how people would have confidence in a committee "made up of the usual suspects who have so patently failed to carry public confidence with them over the years".Independent MP Bob Spink asked how people would have confidence in a committee "made up of the usual suspects who have so patently failed to carry public confidence with them over the years".
Sir George said the IPSA would be independent and the MPs' committee would only oversee appointments but accepted that it would have to consult the committee, along with other bodies, when "preparing or revising" an expenses scheme.Sir George said the IPSA would be independent and the MPs' committee would only oversee appointments but accepted that it would have to consult the committee, along with other bodies, when "preparing or revising" an expenses scheme.
It seems very unlikely there will not be substantial changes to the system of MPs' expenses.It seems very unlikely there will not be substantial changes to the system of MPs' expenses.
Gordon Brown's spokesman said the PM's "overriding objective is to see the end of an old, discredited system" and he looked forward to "welcoming the Kelly review". Mr Brown has repeatedly said he wants to see an end to the "old discredited" system, telling MPs: "People want to know that the system in future will be different. It will be open. It will be transparent. It will be fair."
And some MPs' concerns may be allayed when Sir Christopher's proposals are published in full - any recommendations are likely to be phased in over several years. Some MPs' concerns may be allayed when they read through Sir Christopher's proposals - the recommendations are that changes be phased in over the lifetime of the next Parliament.
But even if the IPSA decides to take on board all Sir Christopher's recommendations, it is not clear when that might happen. There have also been concerns over exactly how long all this might take - Ms Harman said on Wednesday that a new allowances system would be in place ready for the next Parliament. A general election must be held by June 2010.
Mr Brown's spokesman was unable to say on Monday exactly when it would begin work but said it would be "a matter of urgency" - the IPSA's website says it aims to be operational by spring 2010. By then it will be over a year since the Daily Telegraph broke its expenses story.
That prompted Lib Dem frontbencher David Heath to tell MPs last week: "I have my doubts whether the timetable will be such as to see real and effective change before the expiry of this Parliament." Some MPs will have lost their seats, others will have stepped down and, because of the transitional arrangements for change, it will be newly-elected MPs who will initially be most affected by the changes.