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MPs debate electoral reform plan MPs back vote system referendum
(about 3 hours later)
Jack Straw has said Tory MPs should have the "courage of their convictions" and back a referendum on ending the first past the post voting system. MPs have backed government plans to hold a UK-wide referendum on changing the voting system next year.
MPs are set to vote on plans for a referendum on an "alternative vote" system where candidates are ranked in order of preference. Voters would be asked if they want to keep "first past the post" or switch to the "alternative vote", which ranks candidates in order of preference.
The justice secretary denied it was a "cynical ploy" by Labour or part of a deal with the Lib Dems. But it is not certain the bill will become law before Parliament is dissolved ahead of the election.
The Tories say the £80m cost of a public vote is a waste of money. The government says change is needed to restore trust in politics but the Tories say it is a waste of £80m.
They say the current system results in stable governments and keeps out extremists - if they win the general election, expected to be held in May - they are expected to scrap any plans for a referendum. MPs backed the government's plan by 365 votes to 187 and are now voting on a separate Liberal Democrat amendment to hold a referendum on whether to switch to another voting system - the single transferable vote.
Ballot box 'secrecy' Trust 'damaged'
They have also accused Labour of using the issue to make overtures to the Liberal Democrats in the event of a hung Parliament. The government put forward an amendment to the Constitutional Reform Bill for a referendum to be held by the end of October 2011.
But in the Commons Mr Straw pointed out it was the British people who would decide whether to change the voting system, if a referendum was held. As MPs debated the plans, Justice Secretary Jack Straw said trust in Parliament had been "profoundly damaged" by the expenses scandal.
Part of restoring trust must be considering which voting system could best serve them, he said.
WHAT IS ALTERNATIVE VOTE? Voters rank candidates in order of preference and anyone getting more than 50% in the first round is elected.If that doesn't happen, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and their second choices allocated to the remaining candidatesThis process continues until a winner emerges Would AV have changed history? Straw backs election night countsWHAT IS ALTERNATIVE VOTE? Voters rank candidates in order of preference and anyone getting more than 50% in the first round is elected.If that doesn't happen, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and their second choices allocated to the remaining candidatesThis process continues until a winner emerges Would AV have changed history? Straw backs election night counts
He said: "What we are proposing to do... is to provide for the money so that there can be a referendum over the next 20 months, in which it is not this House, or by any so-called deal, but the British people in the secrecy of the ballot box, can determine what system between first past the post and the alternative vote is to apply. "This is an important debate. This subject is a fundamental plank of our democracy and it comes at a time when this House is held in dangerously low regard," said Mr Straw.
"I cannot for the life of me see why the Conservatives do not have the courage of their convictions ready to make their arguments in favour of first past the post... before the British people." "The alternative vote takes on the considerable strengths of our system and I suggest, builds on it. We propose a referendum because we believe it is not for us to decide, but it is important the people should have that choice," he added.
MPs are now debating the Constitutional Reform Bill and will vote on an amendment backing a referendum on an alternative vote system. But several Tory MPs stood up to ridicule the idea - suggesting it was an act of "political cynicism" by Gordon Brown ahead of a general election and the issue was "utterly irrelevant" to most people.
Mr Straw has also said the government will back a Tory amendment which would guarantee general election votes are counted on polling night. 'Belated conversion'
'Election gimmick' They have accused Labour of using the issue to make overtures to the Liberal Democrats in the event of a hung Parliament.
As the debate got under way, the government was attacked over the cost of the proposed referendum "at a time of financial restraint" and Conservative MPs suggested it was "an election gimmick" and part of "a shady deal with the Liberal Democrats". Mr Straw's Conservative shadow, Dominic Grieve said it would cost "£80m for a gimmick which the government wishes to foist on the electorate" at a time when "every pound matters".
Mr Straw argued that the expenses scandal meant electoral reform was needed to restore people's trust in politics. He suggested the prime minister had had a "belated conversion to the cause of electoral reform which he has so successfully and personally obstructed for over a decade".
But his Conservative shadow Dominic Grieve said he doubted changing the voting system was a big issue with the public. We cannot go on with a political system under which unpopular governments are elected by a little more than a third of those voting David HowarthLib Dems
It's dead before it's even started Labour MP on the referendum plan The current system delivered "clear, clean results" and allowed voters to "get rid of" MPs they did not want. He said proportional representation systems "saddle a country with impossible legislatures where you cannot have any proper governance carried on at all".
Mr Grieve told MPs: "What the electorate want is the opportunity to express their view and if they happen to have a very adverse view of a member of parliament, to see them removed."
The "last thing" they wanted was a situation where someone comes second only to see them "magically comes first" - thanks to AV, he said.
He said it saddled countries with "impossible legislatures where you can't have any proper governance carried on at all".
'Deathbed conversion'
For the Lib Dems, David Howarth said the government's "deathbed conversion" to electoral reform did "look like a manoeuvre".For the Lib Dems, David Howarth said the government's "deathbed conversion" to electoral reform did "look like a manoeuvre".
The Lib Dems are putting forward their own amendment for an earlier referendum on a different system, the single transferable vote. He said his party would support the government's amendment but only so they could "radically" try to amend it in favour of a referendum on a "more proportional" system.
But he said his party would support the government's amendment in the vote as electoral reform was now on the political agenda and AV was a "proportional system" - something the Lib Dems are in favour of. Parliament Act
Mr Howarth said: "We cannot go on with a political system under which unpopular governments are elected by a little more than a third of those voting and who push through policies that two thirds of those voting have just voted against."Mr Howarth said: "We cannot go on with a political system under which unpopular governments are elected by a little more than a third of those voting and who push through policies that two thirds of those voting have just voted against."
Any referendum would not be held before the general election. Mr Brown has said it would be held by the end of October 2011. Mr Brown has said any referendum would be held by the end of October 2011. The Lib Dems want moving forward to May 2011, to stop the Conservatives using the Parliament Act to overturn it, should they win power.
Downing Street has admitted "time is tight" to change the law. Up to 40 Labour MPs may vote against the plans because they believe the "alternative vote" would benefit the least unpopular - rather than the most popular - candidates, and could cost Labour seats. It's dead before it's even started - so what's the point? Labour MP
But several would-be Labour rebels told the BBC they would not vote against the government because the chances of it becoming law were slim, one declaring: "It's dead before it's even started - so what's the point?" Some MPs suggested other voting systems should be considered - including the French system in which the top two candidates take part in a run-off election if no-one gets 50% of the vote.
The prime minister's official spokesman has conceded that there may not be enough time to get the referendum proposal on to the statute book, but said Mr Brown still believed it was the best option for reform. The Tories say the current system results in stable governments and keeps out extremists - if they win the general election, expected to be held in May - they are expected to scrap any plans for a referendum.
Mr Straw has also said the government will back a Tory amendment which would guarantee general election votes are counted on polling night.
Downing Street has admitted "time is tight" to change the law. Some Labour MPs because they believe the "alternative vote" would benefit the least unpopular - rather than the most popular - candidates, and could cost Labour seats.
But they believe the chances of the referendum becoming law are slim - owing to the tight timetable and fact they are likely to be opposed in the Lords - one declaring: "It's dead before it's even started - so what's the point?"
Labour pledged a referendum on electoral reform in its 1997 election manifesto but the idea was kicked into the long grass by Tony Blair after his landslide victory.Labour pledged a referendum on electoral reform in its 1997 election manifesto but the idea was kicked into the long grass by Tony Blair after his landslide victory.