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MP's anger at first-class 'ban' MP's anger at first-class 'ban'
(about 1 hour later)
Sir Nicholas Winterton has angrily denounced plans to reduce first-class travel by MPs - telling the BBC he needs "quiet" and privacy to work.Sir Nicholas Winterton has angrily denounced plans to reduce first-class travel by MPs - telling the BBC he needs "quiet" and privacy to work.
The veteran Tory MP said there was a "totally different type of people" in standard-class train carriages.The veteran Tory MP said there was a "totally different type of people" in standard-class train carriages.
He also said it was a "grotesque injustice" that the expenses system had been "misrepresented" by the media.He also said it was a "grotesque injustice" that the expenses system had been "misrepresented" by the media.
A Tory spokesman said Sir Nicholas's remarks were "the out-of-touch views of a soon-to-retire backbench MP".A Tory spokesman said Sir Nicholas's remarks were "the out-of-touch views of a soon-to-retire backbench MP".
"They do not in any way represent the views of David Cameron or that of the Conservative Party and should be treated as such," the spokesman added."They do not in any way represent the views of David Cameron or that of the Conservative Party and should be treated as such," the spokesman added.
Macclesfield MP Sir Nicholas, who is standing down at the general election, spoke to the BBC following an interview with Total Politics magazine, in which he said restricting first-class travel left MPs "below local councillors".Macclesfield MP Sir Nicholas, who is standing down at the general election, spoke to the BBC following an interview with Total Politics magazine, in which he said restricting first-class travel left MPs "below local councillors".
'Need a seat''Need a seat'
Sir Nicholas, an MP since 1971, told BBC Radio 5 live that MPs worked "extremely hard" and used the time travelling between London and their constituencies to work.Sir Nicholas, an MP since 1971, told BBC Radio 5 live that MPs worked "extremely hard" and used the time travelling between London and their constituencies to work.
"But in order to be able to do that they need to be able to sit down, and you can't always do that in standard class... and you also need quiet and sadly, you don't very often get that in standard class."But in order to be able to do that they need to be able to sit down, and you can't always do that in standard class... and you also need quiet and sadly, you don't very often get that in standard class.
FROM BBC RADIO 5 LIVE More from BBC Radio 5 live FROM BBC RADIO 5 LIVE More from BBC Radio 5 live class="" href="http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=7519&edition=2">Read your comments
"If I was in standard class I would not do work because people would be looking over your shoulder the entire time, there would be noise, there would be distraction.""If I was in standard class I would not do work because people would be looking over your shoulder the entire time, there would be noise, there would be distraction."
He added: "They are a totally different type of people.He added: "They are a totally different type of people.
"There's lots of children, there's noise, there's activity. I like to have peace and quiet when I'm travelling.""There's lots of children, there's noise, there's activity. I like to have peace and quiet when I'm travelling."
Sir Nicholas said he was not saying people who used standard class were inferior but that, in general, they were not working while travelling.Sir Nicholas said he was not saying people who used standard class were inferior but that, in general, they were not working while travelling.
Asked whether it mattered that the public might not agree with first-class travel, he said: "I'm sorry, the public are wrong. It's for Parliament to decide not the public."Asked whether it mattered that the public might not agree with first-class travel, he said: "I'm sorry, the public are wrong. It's for Parliament to decide not the public."
'Grotesque injustice''Grotesque injustice'
He said he was angry because MPs had been treated "extremely unfairly" and expenses matters had been "misrepresented".He said he was angry because MPs had been treated "extremely unfairly" and expenses matters had been "misrepresented".
"The word 'expenses' has been used when the word 'allowance' is much more applicable. To misrepresent that as expenses is a grotesque injustice.""The word 'expenses' has been used when the word 'allowance' is much more applicable. To misrepresent that as expenses is a grotesque injustice."
Sir Christopher Kelly said MPs should ensure value for moneySir Christopher Kelly said MPs should ensure value for money
Sir Nicholas and MP wife Ann Winterton, who is also standing down, faced criticism for claiming rent of £20,000 a year on a flat they transferred to a family trust after paying off the mortgage.Sir Nicholas and MP wife Ann Winterton, who is also standing down, faced criticism for claiming rent of £20,000 a year on a flat they transferred to a family trust after paying off the mortgage.
A seven-month inquiry into MPs' expenses last year recommended a series of changes to overhaul the system and improve public trust.A seven-month inquiry into MPs' expenses last year recommended a series of changes to overhaul the system and improve public trust.
Among the proposals, currently under consideration, is one saying MPs should "be permitted to claim for first-class train travel for longer journeys where issues of space or privacy in which to work make this appropriate".Among the proposals, currently under consideration, is one saying MPs should "be permitted to claim for first-class train travel for longer journeys where issues of space or privacy in which to work make this appropriate".
But it says MPs "should always ensure that value for money for the taxpayer is provided when making travel arrangements".But it says MPs "should always ensure that value for money for the taxpayer is provided when making travel arrangements".
It also recommends that they should only claim for economy class flights within the UK or Europe and stop claiming for first class travel for their families.It also recommends that they should only claim for economy class flights within the UK or Europe and stop claiming for first class travel for their families.
Sir Nicholas singled out Sir Christopher Kelly, chairman of the committee on standards in public life, and Sir Ian Kennedy, head of the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, for criticism.Sir Nicholas singled out Sir Christopher Kelly, chairman of the committee on standards in public life, and Sir Ian Kennedy, head of the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, for criticism.
"The people who are sitting in judgement of us not only travel first class themselves, but in the main are on at least twice the salary of members of Parliament.""The people who are sitting in judgement of us not only travel first class themselves, but in the main are on at least twice the salary of members of Parliament."
'In touch''In touch'
But his remarks were condemned by other MPs. Labour's John Mann said "second class seats are just as good as first class seats".But his remarks were condemned by other MPs. Labour's John Mann said "second class seats are just as good as first class seats".
"It is total nonsense that MPs, particularly in a recession, should regard themselves as a different kind of species," he told the BBC."It is total nonsense that MPs, particularly in a recession, should regard themselves as a different kind of species," he told the BBC.
"MPs need to get out of this mindset that, somehow, we are above the general public, that we are special. Travelling second class keeps you in touch with the general public. It seems to me actually it helps MPs doing their job better.""MPs need to get out of this mindset that, somehow, we are above the general public, that we are special. Travelling second class keeps you in touch with the general public. It seems to me actually it helps MPs doing their job better."
Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker said the comments showed how out of the touch the Conservatives were.Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker said the comments showed how out of the touch the Conservatives were.
"Dig into the Conservative Party and they haven't changed," he told Radio 5 live. "They still think they are a class apart, they still think they are privileged, they resent the idea that they should be subject to the same controls as everybody else.""Dig into the Conservative Party and they haven't changed," he told Radio 5 live. "They still think they are a class apart, they still think they are privileged, they resent the idea that they should be subject to the same controls as everybody else."
Mr Baker said there were occasions when he travelled first class when the layout of seats meant it was not possible to work in standard class but he would always have to justify doing so.Mr Baker said there were occasions when he travelled first class when the layout of seats meant it was not possible to work in standard class but he would always have to justify doing so.