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Nuclear weapons 'essential to UK' Trident plan wins Commons support
(about 6 hours later)
Tony Blair says it is "essential" the UK begins renewing its nuclear weapons system as soon as possible. The government has won Commons support for plans to renew the UK's nuclear submarine system, despite a large rebellion by Labour MPs.
The prime minister may face his biggest Commons rebellion since the start of the Iraq war when MPs vote on a £20bn plan to replace the Trident system. Tony Blair had said it was "essential" the UK began the £20bn plan to renew Trident as soon as possible.
Up to 80 Labour MPs may rebel, but defeat in the 1900 GMT vote is unlikely as the Conservatives back the plans. After six hours of debate, 409 MPs supported the proposals, and 161 were against - a majority of 248.
Ministerial aide Stephen Pound has become the third MP to quit a government post over the proposals. Earlier 413 MPs had rejected a bid to delay the decision, with 95 Labour rebels among 167 MPs wanting a delay.
There were 16 former ministers, including four ex-Cabinet members.
On the government's motion to proceed with renewal there were 88 Labour rebels.
Between £15bn and £20bn would be spent on new submarines to carry the Trident missiles. The fleet would take 17 years to develop and build, and would then last until about 2050.
Defence minister Adam Ingram, speaking after the vote, said he had heard some "disgraceful" speeches from Labour rebels, but it had been a "strong and healthy" debate.
It was about us doing what we believed to be the right thing, rather than supporting the government Liam FoxConservative defence spokesman List of Labour rebels
He dismissed any suggestion that the party was lacking unity, saying "this is a debate for the nation, not the Labour party".
Conservative defence spokesman Liam Fox said the plan was a "sound, sensible" policy that would ensure the UK would not be subject to "nuclear blackmail" from other states.
"It was about us doing what we believed to be the right thing, rather than supporting the government," Mr Fox said.
Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell, who voted for the amendment, said: "The government's got its way, but it's a humiliation for the prime minister that on a policy to which he has attached his own personal reputation he is unable to carry the House of Commons without the votes of the Conservative Party.
"It's a bit like the Iraq vote once again."
Few issues can divide Labour so instantly or comprehensively as this one BBC's Nick Assinder Analysis: Is this the end of the Trident debate? Celebrities join opponents
SNP leader Alex Salmond said he believed most Scottish MPs, from all parties, had opposed the plans - and he thought the vote would damage Labour's chances in the upcoming Scottish elections.
He said ministers were "trying to impose on an unwilling country, nuclear weapons of mass destruction for the next 50 years - it's just not on."
He added: "The government have had to rely on the Conservative Party, once again, to get an unpopular policy through."
'Uncertain world''Uncertain world'
Speaking during prime minister's questions before the nuclear weapons debate got under way, Mr Blair said: "I think it's right we take the decision now to begin work on replacing the Trident nuclear submarines.Speaking during prime minister's questions before the nuclear weapons debate got under way, Mr Blair said: "I think it's right we take the decision now to begin work on replacing the Trident nuclear submarines.
"I think that is essential for our security in an uncertain world."I think that is essential for our security in an uncertain world.
Tony Blair is doing Gordon Brown a big favour by staging the vote on Trident at this time BBC's Nick Assinder class="" href="/1/hi/uk_politics/6449005.stm">Analysis: Blair's nuclear gift class="" href="/1/hi/uk_politics/6450339.stm">Celebrities join opponents See a 360-degree panorama of a Trident submarine control room. href="javascript: void window.open('/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/07/trident_360/html/trident_360.stm','opportunity','toolbar=0,scrollbars=0,location=0,statusbar=0,menubar=0,resizable=0,width=400,height=398');">
"I believe it is important that we recognise that, although it is impossible to predict the future, the one thing... that is certain, is the unpredictability of it.""I believe it is important that we recognise that, although it is impossible to predict the future, the one thing... that is certain, is the unpredictability of it."
Conservative leader David Cameron agreed, saying: "Replacing Britain's independent nuclear deterrent is clearly in the national interest. The decision needs to be taken now."Conservative leader David Cameron agreed, saying: "Replacing Britain's independent nuclear deterrent is clearly in the national interest. The decision needs to be taken now."
But MPs including Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell and former defence minister Peter Kilfoyle are backing an amendment - thought to have the support of about 80 Labour MPs - saying the case for replacing Trident is "not yet proven" and saying they are "unconvinced of the need for an early decision". Some Labour MPs wanted an assurance that Parliament would be able to revisit the Trident issue in the future.
The Lib Dems want to postpone a decision until 2014, but the government argues that one needs to be made now as the submarines take so long to build. Mr Blair said that was always a possibility.
Sir Menzies told the Commons: "A hasty decision to replace Trident is bound to undermine our ability to have influence at the conference [to reduce nuclear proliferation] in 2010." Back in December he told Parliament that submarine numbers could be cut from four to three, while the number of nuclear warheads would be cut by 20%.
'Design and concept'
However, Mr Blair said: "It's absurd to suggest we could simply put off the decision."
Some Labour MPs want an assurance that Parliament will be able to revisit the Trident issue in the future.
Mr Blair said that was always a possibility, stressing that Wednesday's vote was for the "design and concept" stage, and MPs might want to revisit the issue when it comes to contracts being negotiated for the work to take place from around 2012.
See a 360-degree panorama of a Trident submarine control room.
Mr Blair said in December that submarine numbers could be cut from four to three, while the number of nuclear warheads would be cut by 20%.
Between £15bn and £20bn would be spent on new submarines to carry the Trident missiles and the fleet would take 17 years to develop and build, and would then last until about 2050.
Deputy Commons leader Nigel Griffiths and ministerial aide Jim Devine quit earlier this week.Deputy Commons leader Nigel Griffiths and ministerial aide Jim Devine quit earlier this week.
Stephen Pound - parliamentary private secretary to Labour chairman Hazel Blears - did the same on Wednesday. HAVE YOUR SAY We should not waste billions renewing Trident George, Malvern class="" href="http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=5771&edition=1&ttl=20070314162927&#paginator">Send us your comments
He said he remained an "enthusiastic supporter of this government and its achievements in all areas other than" nuclear weapons policy. Stephen Pound - parliamentary private secretary to Labour chairman Hazel Blears - did the same on Wednesday, followed by Chris Ruane, parliamentary private secretary to Mr Hain.
'Act of folly'
Opening the Commons debate, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said large nuclear arsenals still existed around the world and some countries in "unstable" regions were looking to create their own weapons.Opening the Commons debate, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said large nuclear arsenals still existed around the world and some countries in "unstable" regions were looking to create their own weapons.
She said: "There's the potential for a new nuclear threat to emerge or to re-emerge." She said: "There's the potential for a new nuclear threat to emerge or to re-emerge.
"Maintaining a nuclear deterrent remains a premium worth paying on an insurance policy for this nation.""Maintaining a nuclear deterrent remains a premium worth paying on an insurance policy for this nation."
HAVE YOUR SAY We should not waste billions renewing Trident George, Malvern Send us your comments
Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said abandoning nuclear weapons would be "extraordinarily ill-advised and a national act of folly".
He added: "As far as we can see into the future nuclear weapons will remain part ... of the global security setting. They will not be disinvented.
Kate Hudson, chairwoman of CND, the anti-nuclear pressure group, said there was "enormous" cross party unity "that exists to prevent a rushed decision on Trident". Labour rebels have staged a series of revolts since Tony Blair came to power in 1997, although the government has suffered only four defeats.
The biggest rebellion was over Iraq in March 2003, when 138 Labour MPs supported a rebel amendment opposing the decision to go to war.
Several protests against replacing nuclear weapons are taking place across the UK.
Several demonstrators earlier climbed onto the roof of the Scottish Parliament. Two people have been arrested.